Am i the only one hoping that the next expansion wont look like Burning Crusade ?

[Kaleredar]

You can think what you want about the art and whatnot, but this is just 100% incorrect. Crustbursters, hellboars, new raptor models, new windserpent models, clefthoofs, sporebats, marshwalkers, netherrays, new demons, mechanical creatures like the fel reaver etc. That's just off the top of my head. If you don't like TBC fine, but don't expect everyone to agree with you, and don't spew nonsense to try to make them agree.

Uh huh, sure... and what of the Bats, lynxes, spiders, snakes, tallstriders, crocolisks, devilsaurs, scorpids, owls, wolves... what of those? Those are freakin' everywhere in outland. Terrokar's "ecosystem" is nothing but wolves, basilisks, spiders, and owls. Same old same old.

And on the subject of hellboars, windserpents, basilisks raptors, etc... even if they had a new model, so what? How the hell did they get to outland and just suddenly entrench themselves in the ecosystem?

Inexplicably dropping in the same tired creatures onto a supposedly "alien" planet and passing them off as "native life forms" does much more to harm the overall feeling than the few "new" life forms they included.

I stick by my statement.

[Skytotem]

On the one hand a lot of TBC areas were beautiful, on the other, betweent he Bonewastes, Shadowmoon, Hellfire, Netherstorm and the vast majority of Blade's Edge, it got a little dull since you can only do 'inhospitable wilderness' so many ways for so many days before it wears on you.

[BHD]

If anything, Hellfire Peninsula suffered from being too similar to the Blasted Lands. I went from BL to HFP and thought "Is this it? Did anything even happen?"

Then you turned the camera up and BAM!

Uh huh, sure... and what of the Bats, lynxes, spiders, snakes, tallstriders, crocolisks, devilsaurs, scorpids, owls, wolves... what of those? Those are freakin' everywhere in outland. Terrokar's "ecosystem" is nothing but wolves, basilisks, spiders, and owls. Same old same old.

And on the subject of hellboars, windserpents, basilisks raptors, etc... even if they had a new model, so what? How the hell did they get to outland and just suddenly entrench themselves in the ecosystem?

Inexplicably dropping in the same tired creatures onto a supposedly "alien" planet and passing them off as "native life forms" does much more to harm the overall feeling than the few "new" life forms they included.

I stick by my statement.

Who's to say some of those creatures didn't originate from Draenor and came to Azeroth via the Dark Portal? And honestly, we were talking about ART, and now the world mobs are what's wrong. Just accept that people have different opinions than you, whether you think those opinions are "worse" than your own or not. It's just not nostalgia just because it's old. It's dated but I love the art of Outland, and if we ever visit Argus I wish we get to see similar environments, but improved to reflect how much better Blizzard has become at making new content.

Speaking of skyboxes, I despise the skyboxes of Auchindoun and Dread Wastes. Auchindoun mainly because it really just looks like a badly drawn picture more than actual sky.

[Vantricular]

Funny, because I think TBC art and music are the best in the game

agreed. favorite art and music in any of the expansions as well, and im a very visceral person. also enjoyed the playstyle of BC with the hybrid classes as well, while on the subject.

maybe nostalgia, probably not though. but I do know that BC was my favorite of all the xp's simple because of the aforementioned visceral feelings I got, particularly the extravagant and resplendent change of scenery from Zangarmarsh into Nagrand, which had scenery and vividness that breathed such new life into you after having been in such a dark and gloomy swamp.

Having said that, I know the designers and developers are doing an INSANE job right now in order to create our trip to Argos or what ever it ends up being on the level of aesthetic OMFG as vashj'r.

the Eredar(maybe?) The Vanir Titans. Aman'thul and THE PANTHEON!!! Imagine how sick they are going to make this shit man? Netherstorm blew my mind. This is going to make you shit. A Sargeras appearance is inevitable. And that right there is enough to make me play until I get whatever 2H Axe or Trink or ridiculous OP thing drops off him

[Jakmax]

Uh huh, sure... and what of the Bats, lynxes, spiders, snakes, tallstriders, crocolisks, devilsaurs, scorpids, owls, wolves... what of those? Those are freakin' everywhere in outland. Terrokar's "ecosystem" is nothing but wolves, basilisks, spiders, and owls. Same old same old.

And on the subject of hellboars, windserpents, basilisks raptors, etc... even if they had a new model, so what? How the hell did they get to outland and just suddenly entrench themselves in the ecosystem?

Inexplicably dropping in the same tired creatures onto a supposedly "alien" planet and passing them off as "native life forms" does much more to harm the overall feeling than the few "new" life forms they included.

I stick by my statement.

It doesn't matter how many old creatures there were. Your statement

It wasn't alien; it was full of the same exact creatures and other things we'd seen around Azeroth for the entirety of vanilla WoW.

And I proved it was not in fact filled with the same exact creatures, it had many new ones, and remodeled old ones. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that wc1, wc2, and tbc on in wow, the two lands are connected by a giant freaking portal. As in any joe shmoe, could bring a nonindigenous creature through to either side. And as for how creatures of different regions can resemble each other so closely,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution

Ever wonder why animals on different continents have evolved to resemble each other so closely? No different. Ontop of all of that, this is WoW, where serpent gods fly down from space and stag deities come back to life after being killed. If you want ecological realism don't play a fantasy game, and don't use it as an excuse to try and invalidate other peoples opinions. You might not like the art, you might not like the creatures, but some of us do.

[Deleted]

Each to his own but personally I thought the art style in Burning Crusade was the best I've seen yet, I loved almost every zone in that xpac with the exception of Blades Edge which for some reason drove me round the bend.

[Prokne]

Besides, I thought the Orcs hunted the Draenei to extinction? Yet the Draenei have lots of ruins spread around Outland, while the Horde has just a few old huts and only one real fort: Hellfire Citadel. Prior to the retcon in TBC, Fortress Auchindoun and the Black Temple were Orcish forts. The retcon made Orcs look strangers to their own world. As if there was only a timegap of a year between living like hunter gatherers and venturing through the portal as demonic warriors.

I just realized the other day how badly they retconned Orc and Draenei history.

Originally the Orcs defeated the Draenei before they became allies with the Legion through Guldan. And the reason KJ found Guldan was because he was powerful and could be used to get the Eye of Sargeras from Azeroth. I dont even think they added the relation between KJ and the Draenei until TBC. It seems they wanted to whitewash Orc history to make them look "not so bad" like they were all peaceful shamans and were corrupted by just 2 people, Guldan and Nerzhul. Nerzhul got an upgrade too when they made him the Lich King. He was just the next orc to be warchief after Blackhand and Doomhammer.

There are lots of Orc settlements in Outland but there are too many Draenei ones since they should all be ruins. The only zone I dont remember there being an Orc village is Netherstorm.

[Razorice]

If you mean by next expansion zones not looking like Outland - I agree. Next expansion theme being like BC - I don't Agree, I think BC theme was awesome! FEL FIRE! FEL FIRE EVERYWHERE!

[BHD]

I just realized the other day how badly they retconned Orc and Draenei history.

Originally the Orcs defeated the Draenei before they became allies with the Legion through Guldan. And the reason KJ found Guldan was because he was powerful and could be used to get the Eye of Sargeras from Azeroth. I dont even think they added the relation between KJ and the Draenei until TBC. It seems they wanted to whitewash Orc history to make them look "not so bad" like they were all peaceful shamans and were corrupted by just 2 people, Guldan and Nerzhul. Nerzhul got an upgrade too when they made him the Lich King. He was just the next orc to be warchief after Blackhand and Doomhammer.

There are lots of Orc settlements in Outland but there are too many Draenei ones since they should all be ruins. The only zone I dont remember there being an Orc village is Netherstorm.

Not going to try and justify the retcon, as it made a mess of many things. But are there really too many Draenei settlements? Their main one seems to be in Zangarmarsh, but it's on top of a huge mushroom, and Zangarmarsh looking like it does I can see how they could succesfully hide on top of those mushrooms, maybe moving around to confuse any Orc attacks. The second big one would be in Nagrand, but it's mainly Broken there, who I guess Orcs would still attack, but both Orcs and Broken are facing another major threat there, Ogres. It's only due to deceiving tactics that you're able to defend your faction from them because you make them turn on each other. Draenei having a rather big hub in Hellfire doesn't make much sense, though. But other than those three, aren't the other ones just Alliance hubs filled with mainly humans and elves? I'd like to think that most Draenei settlements were in a pretty bad shape before A'dal and the other Naaru showed up as well.

[Prokne]

Not going to try and justify the retcon, as it made a mess of many things. But are there really too many Draenei settlements? Their main one seems to be in Zangarmarsh, but it's on top of a huge mushroom, and Zangarmarsh looking like it does I can see how they could succesfully hide on top of those mushrooms, maybe moving around to confuse any Orc attacks. The second big one would be in Nagrand, but it's mainly Broken there, who I guess Orcs would still attack, but both Orcs and Broken are facing another major threat there, Ogres. It's only due to deceiving tactics that you're able to defend your faction from them because you make them turn on each other. Draenei having a rather big hub in Hellfire doesn't make much sense, though. But other than those three, aren't the other ones just Alliance hubs filled with mainly humans and elves? I'd like to think that most Draenei settlements were in a pretty bad shape before A'dal and the other Naaru showed up as well.

I guess you could say they were rebuilt. I still think that a subjugated race shouldnt have almost the same number of settlements as the winning race. The human and high elf structures should have been used more to compensate since they successfully invaded Draenor in WC2. It would make sense that the survivors made more fortifications to defend themselves against the remaining Orcs.

[Kaleredar]

Who's to say some of those creatures didn't originate from Draenor and came to Azeroth via the Dark Portal?

The lore nerd in me could argue the various ways that most all of those lifeforms could be proven to have been on Azeroth long before the dark portal opened. For examples, Agmagan was a boar ancient; the one who gave rise to the quillboar. Boars=Azeroth. All of the troll Loa had been on Azeroth for tens of thousands of years: snakes, spiders, wind serpents, bats, lynxes= Azeroth. All of the life forms on Pandaria now would have to have existed prior to the sundering, which was 12,000 years before the dark portal opened. So that means scorpids, wolves, tallstriders, crocolisks, basilisks... basically, all the rest.

And honestly, we were talking about ART, and now the world mobs are what's wrong.

Details, like world mobs, make the art. It's a world they're designing, not a static picture in a gallery. A world lives, and has living things. And when those living things detract from it, they detract from the "art." This is the WORLD of Warcraft, not the "little interconnected vignettes of Warcraft"

It doesn't matter how many old creatures there were. Your statement

Yes, I said "full of," in that there were indeed a lot of them. I didn't say there were "only old creatures."

In fact, I said pretty much the same thing earlier in the thread.

And I proved it was not in fact filled with the same exact creatures, it had many new ones, and remodeled old ones. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that wc1, wc2, and tbc on in wow, the two lands are connected by a giant freaking portal. As in any joe shmoe, could bring a nonindigenous creature through to either side. And as for how creatures of different regions can resemble each other so closely,

Doesn't explain how they instantly entrenched themselves in the ecosystem. Other than the rockflayers, a handful of ravagers, and the crustbusters, (all predators, I might add) the only real "fauna" of Hellfire peninsula are Hellboars (who don't seem to eat anything, but are very pissy) and two headed vultures (who eat nothing but bones, apparently.) Hellboars and two headed vultures everywhere. Terrokar forest wasn't much better; other than the few clefthooves inexplicably sticking to the bone wastes in the south and some dusty moths, there were no herbivores at all... just spiders, wolves, owls, and basilisks.

Compare that to a zone like Grizzly Hills... You had shoveltusks, horses, and elk serving as prey for the wolves and bears, while eagles fly populate the sky, moths flutter through the fields, and little bunny rabbits jump merrily through the meadows.

And I know Blizzard was capable of things like that in BC; they did an alright job of creating an "alien" ecosystem in Zangarmarsh, with the main trophic provider being the giant mushrooms. Another herbivorous species other than sporebats would have been nice, but those stack up okay with the nether rays (intermediate pretadors) and Marshstalkers (apex predators,) while the Sporelings and Fungal giants have their own little biological niches carved out. Right there, in five novel mob types, blizzard did more than they did in the entirety of all the other BC zones. If Blizzard were to replicate anything about BC, it should be taking that, expanding it, and then doing it for every zone.

And the Arrakoa are implied to have been coexisting with the same old, slightly more colorful, owls for a lot longer than the dark portal was open.

And if they wanted to pull the convergent evolution card, they should have done what they did with the raptors, and create new models. Birds with Arrakoa heads? Sure, I could have swallowed that. They're "unique-ish." But owls? Plain and boring.

[Ausr]

Er.. what? I could've sworn the majority opinion was "BC was godlike." Then again, another expansion came out so I'm assuming Wrath is now the godlike expansion back and Cata is where Wrath was after BC.

[BHD]

I guess you could say they were rebuilt. I still think that a subjugated race shouldnt have almost the same number of settlements as the winning race. The human and high elf structures should have been used more to compensate since they successfully invaded Draenor in WC2. It would make sense that the survivors made more fortifications to defend themselves against the remaining Orcs.

While true that the Orcs were on the winning team at Draenor, when the planet shattered I guess a lot of them, and many of their settlements, were destroyed. Many orcs left Draenor for Azeroth, and the majority of the ones remaining are Fel Orcs, previously in service of the Burning Legion and then Illidan, and they have Hellfire Citadel and Black Temple, which are pretty huge strongholds. Not trying to lecture anyone, but it's worth taking this into consideration. The Horde-aligned, or at least not BL/Illy-aligned Orcs, have been a minority in Outland. And yeah, as you said, Alliance forces successfully invaded Draenor, and the ones that didn't make it back had some powerful people amongst them, so they most likely managed to screw around with the remaining Orcs. Successfully building a base in Terokkar Forest would reflect this. Have to admit I don't know when the Alliance bases in SMV/BEM were built.

The lore nerd in me could argue the various ways that most all of those lifeforms could be proven to have been on Azeroth long before the dark portal opened. For examples, Agmagan was a boar ancient; the one who gave rise to the quillboar. Boars=Azeroth. All of the troll Loa had been on Azeroth for tens of thousands of years: snakes, spiders, wind serpents, bats, lynxes= Azeroth. All of the life forms on Pandaria now would have to have existed prior to the sundering, which was 12,000 years before the dark portal opened. So that means scorpids, wolves, tallstriders, crocolisks, basilisks... basically, all the rest.

I admit I didn't think of the loa, but there's one animal that just can't be (only) native to Azeroth, and that's the wolves. Otherwise I can't think of why there was a clan called Frostwolf on Draenor.

Details, like world mobs, make the art. It's a world they're designing, not a static picture in a gallery. A world lives, and has living things. And when those living things detract from it, they detract from the "art." This is the WORLD of Warcraft, not the "little interconnected vignettes of Warcraft"

Bad choice of words, when I said "art" I meant environment, as in the landscape. When I say I wish Argus would resemble Outland I mean I wish it would resemble the landscape, not its inhabitants. Because Argus haven't had a longlasting portal to Azeroth which animals could go through, the animals (if there are any left) would look completely different. Unless we bring them with us when/if we invade. I doubt anyone here who likes Outland like me actually means they'd want a completely new planet filled with Burning Legion folks and spiders/birds/wolves/toad critters etc. But all of this detracts from why I replied to you in the first place. You claimed everyone that enjoys the art of Outland does so because of nostalgia, and that just isn't true. Subjective stuff is still subjective, no matter how much you dislike coming across known or similar-looking animals.

[Deleted]

Wait...when did we kick the legion of outland?

When we closed all their portals and killed them all ?

[Kayb]

Zangarmarsh is the only zone I really liked. Alien Life forms, an actual alien-like ecosystem... the only thing that served to detract from it were the banal naga and ogres.

But what bothers me most about Burning Crusade is how decidedly non-alien it was. We had the same basic wolves, cats, spiders, owls, and a myriad of other repeated life forms all over outland, that served to detract more than what the truly "alien" life forms ever added.

This sooooo much. It was meant to be an ALIEN world. Sure, it didn't have to be all sci fi n stuff, but did they have to fill it up with Azeroth fauna? Two headed vultures, spikey raptors and wind serpents don't make for alien beasts. The basilisks were given new heads, with three eyes... but weren't really much different aside that.

[Deleted]

Every expansion has had its own theme and aesthetic. The next one won't be any different.

[velde046]

If you mean gear, BC has some of the best models in the game. Its not all dark and boring like Wrath gear and its not dragged through the mud like Cata gear. The stuff that people usually didnt like because it was colorful and bright is Naaru/Draenei gear which we could get in a BL exp if we go places Draenei have been.

I didn't care for most of the gear not just Naaru/Draenei. Most of it looked like a rainbow barfed over it.... was too damn colorful overall... Mage T6 was horrible, though T5 is still one of my favorites.

OT, I'm not that interested in fighting the Burning Legion either if it means leaving Azeroth again.... think I'd rather have Titan story anyway.

[Krolikn]

I hope its similar to TBC rather than any other part of the game. Theres not enough variety in colors anymore. Too many grassy areas.

[Keny]

Dude, Copy paste all of the vibe and feeling TBC had, post It into Argus with some new demon skins, some AWESOME Sargeras and Kiljaeden lore, and Im happy.

Make Velen lead the next XPac , sound right

[BHD]

Dude, Copy paste all of the vibe and feeling TBC had, post It into Argus with some new demon skins, some AWESOME Sargeras and Kiljaeden lore, and Im happy.

Make Velen lead the next XPac , sound right

Speaking of Velen.. Blizz recently said that they hopefully would get Draenei into the story again soon. You'd think that if we were up against the Burning Legion in the next expansion, they'd already begun writing some new Draenei lore for it.