[5.4] Brusalk's Destruction Warlock guide

[Deleted]

Hey guys,
me and a friend have been arguing over how Lei Shen trinket interacts with Chaos Bolts. Can someone here with the trinket please make a screenshot/video of Chaos Bolting under the proc? My friend is saying that it makes 700k CB into 1.4 miliion, but that's been proven to be wrong right?

Sorry if this is a wrong thread but I figured it would fit in Destro thread

[Viggers]

got another trinket question....

just got wushoolays on my coin. should i replace relic 2/2 or LoTC 2/2 (normal)

my gut said to replace lotc, and i had great fun with 870k chaos bolts

[Brusalk]

When using GoSup, with the observer, should I bound tongue lash to every spell I do, or just let him cast automatically? I ask this, and of course I might be wrong, 'cause the pet doesn't seem to maximize the amount of tongue lashes he could be doing.

Just let him cast it, but if you really want to min-max, have a button both for Optical Blast and Tongue Lash. Use Optical Blast on CD if you don't need to help interrupting, and just before a boss goes immune or your pet will have some downtime, manually force him to use up his saved energy with Tongue Lash. Doing so will give you some free damage as your pet will likely energy cap so there would've been no reason to pool the energy.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 04:02 PM ----------

Brusalk,

I don´t know if my point of view about stats is correct, but like a lot of people here, my simulations and real tests about this is the same with GoSup.

Single target: Haste==Crit>Mastery
AoE: Mastery>Crit>Haste

But the DPS difference between crit and mastery in single target, is very small with my gear! However, in AoE mastery is much better than crit... So, for who don´t want to reforge in each fight, "maybe" is better go with mastery>Crit.

With this, I lose a small dps in single target (+/- 1%), but when the fight requires AoE or Cleave or GoSac, my reforges will go fine!

Remember... It´s only my opinion!

Thanks!

It's not my place to tell people what they should do. That is their job. My job is to give them information on the stats and how they function, and they can figure out how they want to reforge from there. If it's not worth the gain on single target to reforge for certain fights I don't care. That's their prerogative.


I'm a person who doesn't believe in the current educational system of memorize and regurgitate. People should think for themselves and understand why things are the way they are. Understanding why leads to understanding mechanics at a base level and allows them to think about things, rather than having to ask someone for help every time something happens that's slightly out of the comfort level or range of experience.


I'm not going to tell anyone that they should do this, or shouldn't do this. If someone wants to play Destro in strength gear I could care less. I'm here to help people and provide useful information to people who care enough to actively seek out information on Destro mechanics and stats. I'm making the assumption that if they are willing enough to look up this information on the internet, then they have some level of self-thought associated.


Of course you could stay Haste > Mastery == Crit and do just fine on actual fights. That's not what I'm here to provide information about though! I'm here to provide information about <100 DPS gains through complex mechanical interactions in the spec and gear. It's up to the player if they want to worry about or implement what I've said.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 04:03 PM ----------

How much CB do you guys squeze into DS and what is your order to get as much as possible ? Can you manage to do sometimes 6 ? (without bloodlust/talisman).

4-6 (potentially 7 depending on fight mechanics)

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 04:04 PM ----------

6 is very do-able.

Pop DS as soon as you have about 3.8 embers, cast RoF / CB - conflag - CB - CB - RoF - CB - -conflag - CB - CB

I can almost always fit in 6 CB's, I'm just not sure if it's a dps gain to spent conflags on CB's during DS.

If using the backdraft lets you fit in more CBs than you'd otherwise be able to, it'd probably be worth it.

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 04:05 PM ----------

Hey guys,
me and a friend have been arguing over how Lei Shen trinket interacts with Chaos Bolts. Can someone here with the trinket please make a screenshot/video of Chaos Bolting under the proc? My friend is saying that it makes 700k CB into 1.4 miliion, but that's been proven to be wrong right?

Sorry if this is a wrong thread but I figured it would fit in Destro thread

That's wrong.

Zum has shown back a few pages that Chaos Bolt seems to have a reduced benefit from crit rating over 100% crit. (Rather than 1-to-1 it's like 1 crit gives .5 crit effectively or something like that)

---------- Post added 2013-03-17 at 04:05 PM ----------

got another trinket question....

just got wushoolays on my coin. should i replace relic 2/2 or LoTC 2/2 (normal)

my gut said to replace lotc, and i had great fun with 870k chaos bolts

LoTC for sure if it's only normal.

[ykza]

Guys considering I have 3 back draft charges and a huge haste buff (let's say BL and a proc) that puts my incinerate with a cast time of 0.7 secs, wouldn't it be more beneficial to use those charges on a Chaos bolt? Because if I just casted 3 Incinerates I'd have about one second of downtime (due to GCD capping). If instead I used it on a Chaos bolt, I'd actually end up casting one more Incinerate due to the smaller cast time on the Chaos bolt. (All of this considering I don't go OOM of course)

[Deleted]

Guys considering I have 3 back draft charges and a huge haste buff (let's say BL and a proc) that puts my incinerate with a cast time of 0.7 secs, wouldn't it be more beneficial to use those charges on a Chaos bolt? Because if I just casted 3 Incinerates I'd have about one second of downtime (due to GCD capping). If instead I used it on a Chaos bolt, I'd actually end up casting one more Incinerate due to the smaller cast time on the Chaos bolt. (All of this considering I don't go OOM of course)

I've asked myself the same thing, but then I said: Let's just reforge some haste into crit and stay at around 6500 haste non-buffed.

Before I did that however, I did use my Backdrafts on Chaos Bolts during buffs like Heroism and/or Dark Soul and/or 5+ stacks of Electrified (Wushoolay's Final Choise), and I did that with great resaults too.

This is just how I do it though, thought I would chip in.
I don't have any hard facts nor theoretical simulations to back anything up!

[Aruotnof]

Brusalk,

I understand! Maybe I don't knew to express my idea!

I didn't want to impose my thinking! I just wanted to share my results and opinion with others who (maybe) have the same doubts!

I agree with you when you say that each player need to decide what is better for yourself!

I tried hard to find a better reforge, making simulations, tests in dummy and raid environment! I don't use a cake recipe!

I really appreciate all your help! Sorry for that!

Thanks!

[Deleted]

That's wrong.

Zum has shown back a few pages that Chaos Bolt seems to have a reduced benefit from crit rating over 100% crit. (Rather than 1-to-1 it's like 1 crit gives .5 crit effectively or something like that)[COLOR="red"]

i think thats mainly becoz ppl forget that the current chaos bolt you cast is ALREADY increased by the amount of crit you have, so +100% wont simply double your dmg. what you would need to do is subtract the current crit you have, then you'll know how much dmg your chaos bolt does. for example, if your chaos bolt does 400k dmg with 25% crit, then with 0% crit it would do 320k dmg, so this number is what should be added, so your chaos bolt would deal 720k, so it wont double the dmg, atleast thats how it should be working but if there is some kind of diminishing returns on the crit, then the dmg would ofc differ, it just seems weird if there is a reduced benefit.

[Milmo]

Just wondering, if I find myself swimming in embers and second conflag is about to come off CD, should I use those backdraft stacks for hasted chaos bolts? Premise here is that I most likely will be building embers through aoe and not so much with incinerates.

[Brusalk]

Just wondering, if I find myself swimming in embers and second conflag is about to come off CD, should I use those backdraft stacks for hasted chaos bolts? Premise here is that I most likely will be building embers through aoe and not so much with incinerates.

If you're swimming in embers and you actually have time to cast a chaos bolt, sure. Yeah that would be a better use.

[Deleted]

hm, yesterday i got thunderforged gloves from a bonus roll on tortos normal. simulationcraft shows this as a dps (+700-1000) increase to break t14 4p bonus (im already using thunderforged headpiece). the gloves i replaced were normal t14 496

[Deleted]

I've asked myself the same thing, but then I said: Let's just reforge some haste into crit and stay at around 6500 haste non-buffed.

wOOt even with 4200 haste unbuffed you will end up with 0.9-0.8 sek cast time during heroism (with backdraft ofc) with shado-pan assault trinket proc even a lot lower..! Im really thinking about trying to go below 4000 haste...

I hope blizzard will do something against this below GCD incinerate as it really sucks... taking Incinerate off the gcd during backdraft would be a nice solution

[Deleted]

wOOt even with 4200 haste unbuffed you will end up with 0.9-0.8 sek cast time during heroism (with backdraft ofc) with shado-pan assault trinket proc even a lot lower..! Im really thinking about trying to go below 4000 haste...

I hope blizzard will do something against this below GCD incinerate as it really sucks... taking Incinerate off the gcd during backdraft would be a nice solution

dont forget u might have more mana issues if your haste goes to low

[Deleted]

my question would be with raid buffs + backdraft + heroism what rating do you need from gear to get to 1 sec cast time incinerates ?

[Deleted]

I dont have exact numbers but I would guess around 4000 haste unbuffed

[Deleted]

my question would be with raid buffs + backdraft + heroism what rating do you need from gear to get to 1 sec cast time incinerates ?

just came here to ask the same question but saw it has just been asked.

Testing this thing with different elemental shamans who can provide the 5% spell haste too gets tedious after a while. For now I know that it is certainly below 4255.

Also, why does Simcraft still insist on haste being the best stat for me even if it means going far below Incinerate GCD multiples times during an encounter?

[Deleted]

Heroism is 30% haste, raid buff is 5% haste. Base cast time of incinerate is 2 seconds, under backdraft it's 1.4 seconds. To turn a 1.4 second cast into a 1 second cast requires 40% haste. 1.4 / (1.3 * 1.05) = 1.02564, or 2.56% haste, or 1088 haste rating.

So basically there's no way to avoid dipping below 1 second incinerate during heroism + backdraft.

[Deleted]

Heroism is 30% haste, raid buff is 5% haste. Base cast time of incinerate is 2 seconds, under backdraft it's 1.4 seconds. To turn a 1.4 second cast into a 1 second cast requires 40% haste. 1.4 / (1.3 * 1.05) = 1.02564, or 2.56% haste, or 1088 haste rating.

So basically there's no way to avoid dipping below 1 second incinerate during heroism + backdraft.

Is that really correct? I am quite sure I have tested it with fellow elemental shamans and at around 3700 haste my Incinerates are just above 1 second with backdraft + heroism.

[HeaddsDead]

ok so the million dollar question...how much haste is too much haste? ive been balls deep in simcraft for a few days now ive tried stacking every stat to see which one is the best...and haste is deff the winner just the amount of dps i gained is roughly 7-10k its beautiful but i am now sitting on 10,143 haste with .7 sec incinerates so how much haste is too much is ther a breakpoint/hard cap and if so what is it and any other info would be fucking amazing so ill leave you with this...pick at my gear tell me what i should change if anything ...trying to max my dps tho i do feel as if im doing a good job i beat my raid leader last night on dark animus by a good 6k (he usually plays demo but went destro for that fight) http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Headd/advanced

thank you

-Headd-

[Deleted]

If 34% haste is enough to drop a 1.4s cast to 1.04s, a 30% buff, 5% buff and a minimal amount of haste from gear will do the same thing.

Just to show the calculation is correct, 1.4 / 1.3436 = 1.042s

[Gobuchul]

You don't even need any haste from gear: 1.4 / 1.3 / 1.05 = 1.0256