[5.4] Brusalk's Destruction Warlock guide

[Killface1]

If you are using GoSac each pet you sac gives a different buff, the useful ones are:

Felhunter- If you need an interrupt
Voidwalker- Gives you an extra personal cooldown

Imp is useful at times but rarely (removes 1 magic effect from a friendly target)

Yep, got that, was just curious if there was any dps difference between them, which it sounds like (and intuitively also) is no. Again I really appreciate you taking the time.

[Tato23]

Not that i doubt Novx, but I would love to see other opinions as well on goSup vs. goSac. I really am at a loss for what would do better. Both multi target and single. From what all I have seen on logs...from the top guilds...98% of the locks up there are using goSup.

[Valq]

Not that i doubt Novx, but I would love to see other opinions as well on goSup vs. goSac. I really am at a loss for what would do better. Both multi target and single. From what all I have seen on logs...from the top guilds...98% of the locks up there are using goSup.

I have no idea where you pulled that statistic out of, and what "top guilds" you're looking up, but that's just wrong, and very untrue. The vast majority of top destruction warlocks use GrimSac for every type of encounter. GrimSac scales really well with gear, since the more gear (and better trinkets) the chaos bolt dot and the 15% increased damage on your main abilities - incinerate, conflagrate, immolate, and shadowburn - outweighs the damage your pet would do.

[Novx]

Not that i doubt Novx, but I would love to see other opinions as well on goSup vs. goSac. I really am at a loss for what would do better. Both multi target and single. From what all I have seen on logs...from the top guilds...98% of the locks up there are using goSup.

I would love to see some of these logs that show 98% of warlocks using goSup considering that fact that we have a handful of the top destro locks in the world which are active on these forums (Crisius, Durant, Sad, myself, as well as some others I am likely forgetting) and I can't think of a single one of us that uses goSup on a consistent basis. The only fight I use goSup on is Thok and after Crisius went and took my #2 spot there with goSac and the holder of the #1 on that fight, Sepeliio, has used goSac for both his first #1 on that and his newer more recent #1 I am considering a change on that as well.

[Brusalk]

Not that i doubt Novx, but I would love to see other opinions as well on goSup vs. goSac. I really am at a loss for what would do better. Both multi target and single. From what all I have seen on logs...from the top guilds...98% of the locks up there are using goSup.

For single target, a Haste/Crit focused build with GoSup/GoServ is roughly even with a Mastery focused build with GoSac.
For multi target, a Mastery focused build with GoSac blows Haste/crit with GoSup/GoServ completely out of the water.

[Crisius]

I don't think I've used Supremacy on a single fight this tier. As Brusalk is saying, it's pretty easy to rationally see the benefit of sacrifice over any of the other two if you look at our stats and which benefits they grant us. Pets don't like mastery. ST nukes likes mastery. You've likely been looking at affliction logs if you're convinced 98% of top warlocks are using supremacy.

[Killface1]

I don't think I've used Supremacy on a single fight this tier. As Brusalk is saying, it's pretty easy to rationally see the benefit of sacrifice over any of the other two if you look at our stats and which benefits they grant us. Pets don't like mastery. ST nukes likes mastery. You've likely been looking at affliction logs if you're convinced 98% of top warlocks are using supremacy.

Yeah, now that I've read a little more of the explanation behind them, its easy to see why that (GoSac>GoSup) would be the case.

Going back to my (shitty) garrosh logs, it already would have been significantly ahead of GoSup. And that difference would only have become more pronounced with a better playstyle and not wasting 37 globals on RoF and doing other stupid shit like ember capping. GoSac affects Chaos bolts, shadowburn, incinerate, and conflag (although I assume it stops working when FnB is up, so I didn't count that), which accounted for about 57% of my damage, or 99m. Putting out 15% more damage from those abilities would have put me at about 114m, and the 14.8 million is more damage then I got from my pet. And there is massive amounts of room to improve my playstyle and improve the amount of damage I do from my single target abilities. I'm sold on that change, as well as not RoF'ing other then for building embers as fast as possible during some burst period.

[FurtyIRL]

93% of dentists agree that gosup sucks

[Tato23]

Okay, well maybe I am reading these logs wrong then, or these are perhaps out of date? Or perhaps if your Affliction you should be using goSup? Wasn't meaning to spread false information. But this is what I saw -

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/5

These are the top rankings for fastest kills in Heroic SoO. I checked the top 2-3 guilds on every fight for all the warlocks...and the majority of them have extra damage from a pet, and their terrorguard. If you are goSac, you don't have a pet right?

So that's where I got my information. Most of these warlocks are affliction...Is that why they are goSup? Is goSup better with afflic?

Sorry again guys I don't mean to spread false information, cause I am still learning what is best myself, I just looked at these logs and I saw well over the majority of them using goSup.

Thoughts?

- - - Updated - - -

For single target, a Haste/Crit focused build with GoSup/GoServ is roughly even with a Mastery focused build with GoSac.
For multi target, a Mastery focused build with GoSac blows Haste/crit with GoSup/GoServ completely out of the water.

Okay thanks, so do we need to be building two gear sets then? Brusalk what are you finding is the best balance for overall DPS in SoO? Seems like goSac full mastery is the better ends of both worlds?

[Novx]

Okay, well maybe I am reading these logs wrong then, or these are perhaps out of date? Or perhaps if your Affliction you should be using goSup? Wasn't meaning to spread false information. But this is what I saw -

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/5

These are the top rankings for fastest kills in Heroic SoO. I checked the top 2-3 guilds on every fight for all the warlocks...and the majority of them have extra damage from a pet, and their terrorguard. If you are goSac, you don't have a pet right?

So that's where I got my information. Most of these warlocks are affliction...Is that why they are goSup? Is goSup better with afflic?

Sorry again guys I don't mean to spread false information, cause I am still learning what is best myself, I just looked at these logs and I saw well over the majority of them using goSup.

Thoughts?

Yeah, if you are aff you use goSup....this is the "Brusalks Destruction Warlock Guide" thread though so aff doesn't really mean very much.

[Tato23]

Okay, i wasn't sure if it applied at all...considering his original post still says goSup is doing more DPS then sacrifice. His OP is still showing Sac as being the worst choice for DPS. So i wanted to confirm with you guys, but it's sounding like Sac is the best choice for DPS for Destruction if your stacking mastery. Ill go with that then!

[Brusalk]

Okay, i wasn't sure if it applied at all...considering his original post still says goSup is doing more DPS then sacrifice. His OP is still showing Sac as being the worst choice for DPS. So i wanted to confirm with you guys, but it's sounding like Sac is the best choice for DPS for Destruction if your stacking mastery. Ill go with that then!

GoSup/Serv is slightly better than GoSac on a purely single target fight. That said, how many purely single target fights are there in SoO? My guide is primarily written from the perspective of pure theorycraft, with the expectation that people will utilize the trends/findings to apply the theory to the application.

A section on practical usage for the current tier is probably warranted.

[Novx]

Yeah, now that I've read a little more of the explanation behind them, its easy to see why that (GoSac>GoSup) would be the case.

Going back to my (shitty) garrosh logs, it already would have been significantly ahead of GoSup. And that difference would only have become more pronounced with a better playstyle and not wasting 37 globals on RoF and doing other stupid shit like ember capping. GoSac affects Chaos bolts, shadowburn, incinerate, and conflag (although I assume it stops working when FnB is up, so I didn't count that), which accounted for about 57% of my damage, or 99m. Putting out 15% more damage from those abilities would have put me at about 114m, and the 14.8 million is more damage then I got from my pet. And there is massive amounts of room to improve my playstyle and improve the amount of damage I do from my single target abilities. I'm sold on that change, as well as not RoF'ing other then for building embers as fast as possible during some burst period.

Check your private messages, I'm going to just continue our convo about your logs there as to not just spam Brusalks nice thread with a bunch of random stuff

[Tato23]

Ah! Okay thanks so much Brusalk, Thanks for clearing that up for me! I will be going Sac the majority of the time now, and if there are any pure single target fights i see in SoO, perhaps Malkorok, and Juggernaut...I will goSup

[Crisius]

I wouldn't even use supremacy on Juggernaut or Malkorok.



All sims ran with Mastery > Haste (10437) > Crit. Keep in mind, also, that even though simcraft does a good job of it, it's not necessarily as good as a player to optimise embers, or account for good trinket proccs. The potential of sacrifice is a lot higher than that of supremacy. More as you reach higher item levels.

[Tato23]

How does all of this compare to aflliction? Shouldn't we all be striving towards getting the gear for affliction? Or are both specs capable of being top? Seems like Afflic is what a lot of the top warlocks are going with.

[Brusalk]

I wouldn't even use supremacy on Juggernaut or Malkorok.



All sims ran with Mastery > Haste (10437) > Crit. Keep in mind, also, that even though simcraft does a good job of it, it's not necessarily as good as a player to optimise embers, or account for good trinket proccs. The potential of sacrifice is a lot higher than that of supremacy. More as you reach higher item levels.

You need to run a sim with the best gear setup for both talent choices to be able to make a valid comparison between the two for single target. Sup/Serv needs Haste/Crit over Mastery to beat Sac.

[Deleted]

How does all of this compare to aflliction? Shouldn't we all be striving towards getting the gear for affliction? Or are both specs capable of being top? Seems like Afflic is what a lot of the top warlocks are going with.

The answers to Affliction vs Destruction can be found all over the place. Do we really need to get into yet another discussion about it.

Play whichever spec you want. Affliction in current gear levels is generally best on nearly every fight, but there are a TON of variables which go into your spec choice, not least counting which spec you actually ENJOY.

[Brusalk]

Ah! Okay thanks so much Brusalk, Thanks for clearing that up for me! I will be going Sac the majority of the time now, and if there are any pure single target fights i see in SoO, perhaps Malkorok, and Juggernaut...I will goSup

Juggernaut is most likely worth it (for a small gain), and Malkorok on normal is maybe worth it. H Malk has adds the whole time which would put Sac above Sup/Serv.

[Crisius]

Afflictions potential can't really be calculated without tweaking the APL in simcraft massively, so disappointingly I can't give you an accurate visual idea. If you look at sustained single-target damage over the course of a long fight, destruction will come out on top. However, with the gear inflation, fights have become a lot shorter than they were on progress. Guilds are killing bosses like Juggernaut in 2,5 minutes.

This, basically, means that the insane start-burst potential of affliction will contribute to a larger portion of the fight than it would if the fight was longer. Because of this, an affliction warlock can easily end up on 700k dps on a fight where a destruction warlock would end up on sub-600k.

Now add to that the current, broken, soul swap mechanic and make things ten times worse. Yeah, affliction outdoes destruction by a mile right now.

You need to run a sim with the best gear setup for both talent choices to be able to make a valid comparison between the two for single target. Sup/Serv needs Haste/Crit over Mastery to beat Sac.

I can do that, but it would be irrelevant, because for the vast majority of Siege a mastery setup would be the best. Which means that, unless you have a second gear-set with stats that are inferior for not only destruction, but the two other speccs, you'll see no practical use of supremacy outside of dispelling on Thok.

Discussing it with Shizwix, and for arguments sake, I ran a comparison using a Haste=Crit>Mastery setup.

warlock=Haste=Crit>Mastery
origin="http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/al%27akir/shizwix"
level=90
race=troll
role=spell
spec=destruction
professions=Engineering=600/Tailoring=600
talents=232212
glyphs=healthstone/soulstone/eternal_resolve

legs=leggings_of_the_horned_nightmare,id=99426,stats=2553armor_2566int_4089sta_1843crit_1558mastery,gems=320crit_320crit_120int,enchant=285int_165crit,reforge=mastery_haste
shoulders=mantle_of_the_horned_nightmare,id=99417,stats=2188armor_1865int_3037sta_946crit_1459haste,gems=160exp_160crit_160exp_160crit_120int,enchant=200int_100crit
wrists=bracers_of_sonic_projection,id=105626,stats=1296armor_1606int_2409sta_1071crit_1071haste,enchant=180int,reforge=haste_hit
off_hand=juggernauts_power_core,id=105521,stats=1526int_2409sta_1031crit_893haste,gems=320crit_60int,enchant=165int
chest=mantid_viziers_robes,id=105592,stats=2962armor_2642int_4324sta_1706crit_1859haste,gems=160exp_160crit_160exp_160crit_320crit_180int,enchant=80all
feet=boneinlaid_sandals,id=105493,stats=2036armor_2061int_3212sta_1401haste_1360mastery,gems=320crit_60hit,enchant=140mastery,reforge=mastery_crit
back=xingho_breath_of_yulon,id=102246,upgrade=4,gems=160exp_160crit_60int,enchant=lightweave_embroidery_3,reforge=mastery_hit
main_hand=arcweaver_spell_sword,id=105550,stats=1155int_1853sta_832crit_703haste_16509sp,gems=160exp_160crit_60int,enchant=jade_spirit,weapon=sword_2.2speed_6013min_11168max
waist=miasmic_skullbelt,id=105569,stats=1666armor_1981int_3212sta_1471hit_1138crit,gems=160exp_160crit_320crit_320crit_120int,reforge=hit_haste
head=hood_of_the_horned_nightmare,id=99425,stats=2371armor_2486int_4089sta_1928haste_1303mastery,gems=sinister_primal_160exp_160crit_180int,reforge=mastery_crit
hands=gloves_of_the_horned_nightmare,id=99424,stats=1823armor_1865int_3037sta_1294haste_1219mastery,gems=160exp_160crit_160exp_160crit_120int,enchant=170exp,reforge=mastery_crit,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
finger1=signet_of_the_dinomancers,id=105606,stats=1526int_2409sta_1023haste_1028mastery,gems=160exp_160crit_60haste,reforge=mastery_crit
trinket1=black_blood_of_yshaarj,id=105648,upgrade=4,reforge=haste_crit
finger2=extinguished_ember_of_galakras,id=105498,stats=1606int_2409sta_1071hit_1071haste,reforge=hit_crit
neck=ashflare_pendant,id=105539,stats=1606int_2409sta_1221hit_814haste,reforge=hit_crit
trinket2=purified_bindings_of_immerseus,id=105422,upgrade=4

default_pet=felhunter