Study: Parenting by appealing in emotion and shame causes kid problems later on

[Deleted]

So recent study finds that shaming and appealing to emotion is damaging the kid's growth and is counterproductive. It shouldnt really surprise many but it seems to be very common sometimes. More below the quote.

Heres the original article (its in finnish). I'm afraid that english and longer version is in Journal of Family Psychology magazine which has to be ordered(?)

I'm afraid below quote is translated by google and some fixing so it is really really cruel. Sorry for that

Is your child is cranky, tired, or even anxious? The reason may be found in a recent study about appealing to emotion when parenting kids. Researchers at the University of Jyväskylä say that parents may be at fault by appealing to emotion and telling kids they are "guilty".

"A parent should not try to influence the behavior of their children by appealing to the emotions, for example, by pointing out how much effort they have done towards their children or show sings that they(parents) are shamed of kid's actions."

Can become a way of parenting without noticing.

- You should not be indirect when parenting, you should stay as parents. When something is prohibited, it should be prohibited. Setting rules and limits need to be direct, said one of the researchers.

According to the study a sense of guilt parenting is characterized by feelings of shame and guilt that fuels growing attitude, which can be caused by parents own nausea and/or fatigue.
(note: i do hope this made sense because I have no idea how else to translate it)

Families participating in the study had children in elementary school's first grade. Both the mother's and the father's "appeal to emotion" increased the child's negative emotions over time.

- "Shame-filled" parenting has also been researched in previous studies, showing it has impact on school grades, and it has increased the depression-like symptoms on the kid.

- It is a counterproductive way of education, researcher says.

Symptoms

Study says that, the continuous use of an shaming and guilt education shows symptoms.

- Child can have tantrums, and is more tired than normal. The child may also be anxious, researcher says.
- The child's experienced negative emotions are negatively impacting normal life and chores.

The year-long Parents, teachers, and the child's learning, a study published in the Journal of Family Psychology magazine.

So what do you feel about this? Have you ever experienced this by teachers or parents when you were kid?
I sure have by relatives and even some teachers. And I have to tell ya, I grew to despise the whole thing.

Who here has heard the old sayings like
"There are starving kids in africa who would want this food, you need to eat your plate" or
"I've made so much effort for all this and you just whine"? I have few times for sure.
It shows around shops too. Kid raises voice and their mother usually goes "Be silent dont make mommy be shamed of you"
Now thats obviously personal experiences, but when growing it seemed common on friends houses as well. Thats why I ask you too about it.

Why do you think this happens? I would like to see study wider on this subject too. I just personally hate the whole notion to appeal in emotion. Its not only logical fallacy but also very frustrating one.

[Deleted]

Let me just give you some advice, never listen to any Finish report until it's filtered outside the country.

I work as a teacher and we're constantly being given statistics about how incredible teachers are in Finland. And it's because they try so hard! Or the fact they earn nearly three times my wage with a 9:1 student teacher ratio? Quite honestly the methodological perspective for a lot of these papers is entirely messed up. They're designed to illicit emotive responses.

There's a major disconnect in thinking you can logically discuss an emotive topic, e.g. behaviour, with someone who doesn't possess the cognitive power to operate logically. Can I see how smacking my students might be a bad thing? Of course, thus I don't do it. Can a 4 year old reason that rather than shouting to get their own way, they might be better served arguing from a logical standpoint? Spend an afternoon with a 4 year old and find out :P

[Luuth]

Well, as long as the problems dont manifest until later I am ok with this. I rather have a way to make my child behave now, right now. If there are problems later on that is not my concern. Let the kid (now adult and on its own) deal with it. Maybe the kid can take it out on his/her own child, thus completing the circle of life. Beautiful in a way. If there is one thing we can all agree on it is that taking a way your childs favorite toy and threatening to throw it in the trash is one of the most gratifying experiences a parent can have (well that and threatening to kill the pet bunny.) I told my kid I was going to kill the pet bunny if he didn't behave and he got so freaked out. The funny thing is we dont even have a pet bunny. What an idiot!

[Deleted]

Well, as long as the problems dont manifest until later I am ok with this. I rather have a way to make my child behave now, right now. If there are problems later on that is not my concern. Let the kid (now adult and on its own) deal with it. Maybe the kid can take it out on his/her own child, thus completing the circle of life. Beautiful in a way. If there is one thing we can all agree on it is that taking a way your childs favorite toy and threatening to throw it in the trash is one of the most gratifying experiences a parent can have (well that and threatening to kill the pet bunny.) I told my kid I was going to kill the pet bunny if he didn't behave and he got so freaked out. The funny thing is we dont even have a pet bunny. What an idiot!

You nearly had me there. You sure did.

[Deleted]

Let me just give you some advice, never listen to any Finish report until it's filtered outside the country.

Does it count that the study was released in Journal of Family Psychology? :P I would wait but I doubt many other reports pick it up.

There's a major disconnect in thinking you can logically discuss an emotive topic, e.g. behaviour, with someone who doesn't possess the cognitive power to operate logically. Can I see how smacking my students might be a bad thing? Of course, thus I don't do it. Can a 4 year old reason that rather than shouting to get their own way, they might be better served arguing from a logical standpoint? Spend an afternoon with a 4 year old and find out :P

Its not telling 4 year old to be logical and not emotional, its just telling parents that they shouldnt say "Im shamed of you when you have tantrums" they should put limits on bad behaviour strictly, not indirectly by telling "im shamed so you need to stop"

[Deleted]

Well, as long as the problems dont manifest until later I am ok with this. I rather have a way to make my child behave now, right now. If there are problems later on that is not my concern. Let the kid (now adult and on its own) deal with it. Maybe the kid can take it out on his/her own child, thus completing the circle of life. Beautiful in a way. If there is one thing we can all agree on it is that taking a way your childs favorite toy and threatening to throw it in the trash is one of the most gratifying experiences a parent can have (well that and threatening to kill the pet bunny.) I told my kid I was going to kill the pet bunny if he didn't behave and he got so freaked out. The funny thing is we dont even have a pet bunny. What an idiot!

Love it!!

[Screwtape]

I think it's a sign of the collapse of society when people seem incapable of performing natural human functions.

[Deleted]

Does it count that the study was released in Journal of Family Psychology? :P I would wait but I doubt many other reports pick it up.




Its not telling 4 year old to be logical and not emotional, its just telling parents that they shouldnt say "Im shamed of you when you have tantrums" they should put limits on bad behaviour strictly, not indirectly by telling "im shamed so you need to stop"

Many Psychology Journals are suspect due to researcher bias, once had a cross sectional view of how the hypothesis was supported the vast majority of the time. Still, the findings might be sound, but I'd much rather see their methodology instead of a report on a report :P

"Shaming" is being used entirely inappropriately I feel. Shaming implies some sort of communal affair. Historically the term would involve the community; Shaming a woman beater in country towns for example. Instead it's used here when the parent is communicating the fact that the child's actions have an emotional and social effect upon the parent. I'm amazed at the conclusion to be honest. Teaching children that there are other social agents, and sources of agency, besides themselves is a major factor in proper socialization. The side effects include, well being ashamed of acting like a brat. That's entirely normal, shame and embarrassment are two of the key socializing tools we have.

[Zonas]

Next study to come out: Beating your kids might not be very good for them. P.S. It's Illegal as all hell!

I know that in the twenty-first century that common sense is dead, beaten, and buried in the back yard next to Grandma, but this is a bit much.

I mean really, I don't even have kids and I think it's obvious that I shouldn't guilt-trip children in order for them to behave. That's what kids are supposed to do to US... not the other way around.

[Gandrake]

so what you're saying

is that not letting your children know that you'll love them no matter what they become is detrimental in the effort of forming the child-parent relationship which is the basis of trust through which you channel your guidance?

kind of sounds like common sense to me

[Deleted]

"Shaming" is being used entirely inappropriately I feel. Shaming implies some sort of communal affair. Historically the term would involve the community; Shaming a woman beater in country towns for example. Instead it's used here when the parent is communicating the fact that the child's actions have an emotional and social effect upon the parent. I'm amazed at the conclusion to be honest. Teaching children that there are other social agents, and sources of agency, besides themselves is a major factor in proper socialization. The side effects include, well being ashamed of acting like a brat. That's entirely normal, shame and embarrassment are two of the key socializing tools we have.

Well I dont know. There are more ways than one to get kids behave or eat their greens than saying "I've made so much effort for your food you should feel bad for not eating it". I personally wouldnt use this type of method. As the thing said, direct one seems better than indirect one guilt-tripping or "shaming"

Next study to come out: Beating your kids might not be very good for them. P.S. It's Illegal as all hell!

I know that in the twenty-first century that common sense is dead, beaten, and buried in the back yard next to Grandma, but this is a bit much.

I mean really, I don't even have kids and I think it's obvious that I shouldn't guilt-trip children in order for them to behave. That's what kids are supposed to do to US... not the other way around.

I guess its easier to say things like "kids in africa are starving therefore you should eat this food" than impose rules on it. I dont know, it seems common and easy way out. And I can understand that, over the years it starts to get tiresome to try reasoning - even tho it should be done that way not guilt-tripping

[Knight Gil]

Its not telling 4 year old to be logical and not emotional, its just telling parents that they shouldnt say "Im shamed of you when you have tantrums" they should put limits on bad behaviour strictly, not indirectly by telling "im shamed so you need to stop"

I guess its easier to say things like "kids in africa are starving therefore you should eat this food" than impose rules on it. I dont know, it seems common and easy way out. And I can understand that, over the years it starts to get tiresome to try reasoning - even tho it should be done that way not guilt-tripping

I'm not really sure of all this.

It's easier to tell your kid he has to eat "just because" than to tell him a reason why to ("food is an important resource that should not be wasted"). And I believe that in the latter case, there are chances that the kid will continue not wasting food throughout his life, whereas in the former, at the first second the kid moves out and gets away from the grip of his parents, I find it likely he will throw all his lessons out of the window just because he feels free from rules, there's no one telling him what to do, no conscience to tell him to be ashamed of his actions.

Shame is not necessarily a bad thing (as long as parents don't abuse that tactic)

[Stir]

I'm not really sure of all this.

It's easier to tell your kid he has to eat "just because" than to tell him a reason why to ("food is an important resource that should not be wasted"). And I believe that in the latter case, there are chances that the kid will continue not wasting food throughout his life, whereas in the former, at the first second the kid moves out and gets away from the grip of his parents, I find it likely he will throw all his lessons out of the window just because he feels free from rules, there's no one telling him what to do, no conscience to tell him to be ashamed of his actions.

Shame is not necessarily a bad thing (as long as parents don't abuse that tactic)

I am entirely on board with this.

Sanctions should exist for bad behaviour. You can't just tell a child that something's wrong, and leave it at that. It would depend on the child, perhaps, but me: I would have never listened to anything my parents told me if they didn't include their reasoning. 'Because I say so' is NEVER an acceptable reason, and children shouldn't be taught that it is by 'direct parenting.'

[Ayla]

When I was growing up, my parents used emotion to blackmail me into everything. Eat the broccoli or the broccoli will be sad, Oh, your broccoli is crying!! Don't Cry, you're bothering other people! This is my house, where I should be comfortable, if you want to cry go upstairs! Threatening people who steal from you is wrong, I can buy you more!

Oh, and the biggest kicker-- this one time I was in about grade 4, I was given a pack of M&Ms. Everyone surrounded me and wanted 1. So, I gave it all away and had none for myself. When I got home I had a small bag of chips and my dad asked if he could have one, and I said no. Well he flipped out and went to the store and bought all my favorite candy and ate it in front of me, smacking and wouldnt let me have any.

It disgusts me that parents would use emotion to do this to someone. Im nearly 30 now, and I still cant help but feel bad when I dont eat my veggies

[Powerogue]

Shame is part of being human. Best to get used to it when you're younger, rather than have it overwhelm you when you're older.

It feels like any traditional negative reinforcement is being slapped with "damaging kid's growth", which feels far too vague to me.

Shame is hard wired into our society, you can't just cut it out at childhood. If we want people to conform to society's mold, the first thing we use is shame. You should be ashamed that you're doing that, it's wrong.

The problem sounds more like it's rooted in too much shame tactics, to the point where they view every action they try as an inevitable failure, and they can't improve themselves. That we already knew negatively affected the ability to perform tasks.

We won't improve ourselves unless we acknowledge that we need to improve. Shame is just a tool.

[Rodna]

When I read the title I thought "well this is pretty damn obvious". Then I read the replies and realised that the study was needed after all.

---------- Post added 2013-03-27 at 09:50 AM ----------

Shame is part of being human. Best to get used to it when you're younger, rather than have it overwhelm you when you're older.

It's easier to overwhelm younger children with shame though. I think that's one of the key aspect of it. People don't realise that using such tactics on children can be damaging because they forget they're not talking to someone who has the emotional fortitude to handle the same thing. Long term anyway.

[Kogoes]

So... We can't shame kids... We can't physically punish them.. What exactly are we supposed to do with kids who are out of line?

[Deleted]

So... We can't shame kids... We can't physically punish them.. What exactly are we supposed to do with kids who are out of line?

I dont know, be parent. No means no. "I am shamed to have you as my kid please stop doing this or you make me cry as well" shouldnt be used as no.. well longer term at least.
Get them punishment. Thats still allowed. But try not to take emotions into it..at least too much.

Also do we have to go there? Fighting negative emotions with emotion-ridden negative guilt-trips? And psychical punishment is way too broad subject to even be taken into this subject and I'd rather have conversation about this and not 11 pages is hitting your kid to get them "in line" ok.

[Kogoes]

I dont know, be parent. No means no. "I am shamed to have you as my kid please stop doing this or you make me cry as well" shouldnt be used as no.. well longer term at least.
Get them punishment. Thats still allowed. But try not to take emotions into it..at least too much.

Also do we have to go there? Fighting negative emotions with emotion-ridden negative guilt-trips? And psychical punishment is way too broad subject to even be taken into this subject and I'd rather have conversation about this and not 11 pages is hitting your kid to get them "in line" ok.

You might not like the subject or want to discuss it but that really does not take away the potential for it to be discussed. It's a perfectly legitimate point. When you can't emotionally or physically appeal to a child to behave, you've simply run out of options. Children at times and in some cases tend to behave like little sociopaths. They don't respond to verbal commands, you for the most part can't legally take hold of your child, and if you can't get through to them on an emotional level to force some kind of behavior there are simply no options available. All that becomes available is to sit and let nature run its course.

By nature taking its course I mean children sitting and screaming, making scenes, destroying property, and generally making life awful for everyone around all because every kind of punishment conceivable is ultimately found to be abusive or damaging in some way.

[Deleted]

You might not like the subject or want to discuss it but that really does not take away the potential for it to be discussed. It's a perfectly legitimate point. When you can't emotionally or physically appeal to a child to behave, you've simply run out of options. Children at times and in some cases tend to behave like little sociopaths. They don't respond to verbal commands, you for the most part can't legally take hold of your child, and if you can't get through to them on an emotional level to force some kind of behavior there are simply no options available. All that becomes available is to sit and let nature run its course.

By nature taking its course I mean children sitting and screaming, making scenes, destroying property, and generally making life awful for everyone around all because every kind of punishment conceivable is ultimately found to be abusive or damaging in some way.

"Psychical punisment = psychically appeal to kid"? Err, righto. Also I'm just saying I dont want the thread go into 20 pages of "should hitting kids be allowed" type of thing, which is sort of off-topic.

No one is really saying you are "not allowed" to do emotional appealing. The study says it can be harmful and it's counterproductive way to teach and parent kids. And if done longer term, it may harm kids way to do chores or schoolwork and otherwise harm them.
I'm sure you can do it once a while, but using shaming and guilt as way to get kids to do stuff rather than be strict or direct when prohibiting things is not that great. At least according to the study.