Shuriken Toss

[Orangetai420]

Shuriken Toss should have charges, I think 3 charges with a 10sec or so recharge rate would be more balanced.

It also shouldn't be usable while disarmed.

[cephqt]

The damage is kind of high in my opinion.. i got crit for 32k with 66% resil on my monk. The ability wouldn't be too bad if it didnt apply (wound) poison(which also does damage).
I just think its really dumb for a class to have a spammable MS effect with no cooldown.

As people suggested, add charges to it or add a 2-3 sec cd between throws.

[Pewpewwindeeps]

In my opinion -and I play a mage and a feral- shuriken toss isn't OP. It's annoying, puts some pressure on you but I think it's not overkill. Deadly throw on the other hand is simply broken. Getting combos with ST and interrupting from 30 yards away without a cooldown is not just overpowered, it's simply broken, it's retarded.

This. This times a million. There is no reason that Every. Single. Cast. should be interrupted from a rogue.

[Thirtyrock]

a mage complains about a 20k crit ST , not sure if serious but the talent as a lvl 90 skill to pickup is just fine , a bit over the top with the DT due to easy cps generation but still a mage complains about 20k crits ST , u can do better than that mate

If I understand it correctly, and I may not, ST turns their auto attacks into ranged attacks. That means 20k crits every .5 second or so, since 2 weapons, each with 1 second attack swing. That's 40k per second at ranged for 8 seconds.

That means a rogue that gets you into any sort of kill ranged can't be kited, they must be LoS'd.

I know that this is the case with Paladins and DKs(to a lesser extent) but it makes rogues into a different beast than they have ever been, and it's not a good change.

[Flaks]

a mage complains about a 20k crit ST , not sure if serious but the talent as a lvl 90 skill to pickup is just fine , a bit over the top with the DT due to easy cps generation but still a mage complains about 20k crits ST , u can do better than that mate

20k crits without cds popped on an ability like ST is freaking ridiculous. The ability has a VERY LOW energy cost and can outdo bread and butter caster spells in both the damage and cost effectiveness departments. How the hell is that fair?

[kosechi]

the problem with shuriken toss is its synergy with deadly throw. it does do an awful lot of damage for its rather minimal resource cost, if anything shuriken toss needs to cost significantly more then it does.

one some level i have a problem with classes with instant gap closers being able to put out ranged pressure. ret paladins, enhance shamans, and to a lesser extent dks all are known for their ranged damage, but none of them are able to effectively close gaps. rogues can, warriors can too, but warrior's ranged capacity is almost nil, rogues should be the same.


my real problem with shuriken toss?

THE GODDAMN FUCKING NOISE. SERIOUSLY, ITS MORE ANNOYING THAN THE SPELLSTEAL NOISE. AND I EAR IT SPAMMED MUCH MORE OFTEN.

[Yaraza]

Shurikan Toss is like Ice Lance, except it crits for 20k instead of 75k. Yep Mages still Blizzards favorite.

Except silencing a mage stops Ice lance. Disarming a rogue does not stop ST or DT.

[Kezuma]

ST does dmg no1 denys , a bit to much dmg compare to the energy cost , now why most of the ppl complain ( casters ) usually is the fact that they get silence from range with DT and the rogue keeps hit them with ST but seriously in order to score a kill the rogue still needs to be in melee range and if ppl get killed by rogues only from ST+DT all i;m saying they are bad players.
Like i said ST+DT(not ST by itself) is the main problem but to score a kill and to be most efficient to burn through players and force them defensivly u still need to be melee

[Thirtyrock]

ST does dmg no1 denys , a bit to much dmg compare to the energy cost , now why most of the ppl complain ( casters ) usually is the fact that they get silence from range with DT and the rogue keeps hit them with ST but seriously in order to score a kill the rogue still needs to be in melee range and if ppl get killed by rogues only from ST+DT all i;m saying they are bad players.
Like i said ST+DT(not ST by itself) is the main problem but to score a kill and to be most efficient to burn through players and force them defensivly u still need to be melee

One of the main ways to escape a rogue while in kill range used to be to range them. This is no longer a possibility and that is part of the problem.

[Deleted]

Shuriken Toss should have charges, I think 3 charges with a 10sec or so recharge rate would be more balanced.

It also shouldn't be usable while disarmed.

lol, i only just found out today i can used while disarmed! pretty funny. but yeah it really needs a nerf.

[Dald]

People also seem to forget that Shuriken Toss enables most of their auto attack damage to happen from ranged, on top of the direct damage from the ability itself. The damage it can output is absolutely ridiculous.

[Duncanîdaho]

lol, i only just found out today i can used while disarmed! pretty funny. but yeah it really needs a nerf.

I thought it was obvious, how does one disarm shuriken's? Knock one out of the rogue's hand? They have multiple on hand they can just grab to replace it.

More on topic though, the OP part is to be able to cycle between ST and DT constantly on a rotation and getting that nice damage while also being able interrupt every cast of your opponent. When facing a class that has many hard casts your actually better off staying ranged currently because you can interrupt everything with DT and still put out some pressure with ST + DT and even hide in smoke bomb. Adding a 10-20 second CD on deadly throw would fix a lot of issues I think. It would prevent the rogue from spamming the rotation for damage purposes when its just meant to buy you time until you can close the gap. Deadly throw is way better then kick currently because I can spam it, so why move in close on a caster? Either that or jack up the cost of ST so I don't have the ability to use a 5 combo point DT every 5 seconds.

[Korgoth]

Except silencing a mage stops Ice lance. Disarming a rogue does not stop ST or DT.

DT the ice lance cast, yep thats going to happen. Mages are spamming 70k instants at range, the idea that Rogues having real ranged damage and utility means Mages arent overpowered and being left that way by the devs is stupid.

[Nicola]

Let's not start an Icelance vs Shuriken Toss discussion. Both spells work completely different, there's no need to start comparing them as it will just end up in a flamewars/trollfest.

As said above, adding a small cooldown or charges on it might be a solution. Myself I'd rather go to just reducing the damage and either nerfing deadly trow or not giving a 100% chance to get a combo point on ST, making it a less reliable combo point builder.

[Deleted]

oh snap mr mage cant beat your average rogue anymore, this game is out of control.

Because enhance shaman can teleport to your target every 23 or less

Maybe not but they can freeze targets at about 30y or something

[Kunz]

Shuriken Toss damage is redicilous. Crits for 20k, and a rogue can just kite you.
As a mage, in a bad situation, if you pop (example) Ring of Frost, the rogue doesn't have to run in at all. He can stay outside and throw as many Shuriken as he wants, and crit 20k every time.

THIS NEEDS A NERF!

oh no, you diden't... a MAGE complaing about kiting.. I've seen it all <3

[announced]

DT the ice lance cast, yep thats going to happen. Mages are spamming 70k instants at range, the idea that Rogues having real ranged damage and utility means Mages arent overpowered and being left that way by the devs is stupid.

ice lance only does 70k if theres FoF charges present.. it has almost 0% crit chance otherwise... spammable 8k dmg isnt much compared to spammable 20ks

anyway, for a melee class, ST does way too much dmg and should have like a 15 second CD

[Dald]

Sitting at 65% resilience, I had a rogue in a BG today spam 20xxx non-crit and 42xxx crit Shurikens at me. His shurikens were hitting harder than my arcane shots. :\

I'm using a Tyrannical weapon.

[Bigbamboozal]

After reading this entire thread...I was wondering, any napkin math'ers who can sim and think through a 'tosser' spec to capitalize on it? (seriously just for fun.)

[Flaks]

DT the ice lance cast, yep thats going to happen. Mages are spamming 70k instants at range, the idea that Rogues having real ranged damage and utility means Mages arent overpowered and being left that way by the devs is stupid.

As OP as shatter/FoF combos are, ice lance damage outside of frozen targets is comparable or lower than shuriken toss. There's literally no reason for that to be the case.