BM Mastery Build?

[Solarflair]

Hey guys,

Check this out:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...riate/advanced

Anyone know why the high Mastery?
I was wondering at what levels of gear would make that appropriate reforging, is there a certain theshold where you can throw away the traditional Crit > Haste > Mastery?
I don't think you could make a Mastery build at a ~505 iLvl without losing other crucial secondary stats, or something to that extent.
Any insight?

[Ambulatory Cube]

source: http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130590-...ve_stat_values

Despite what simulation tools say, haste is not a very attractive stat over what we cannot avoid from gear. "Faux reforging" over several valus of secondary stats between haste, crit and mastery show that;

-mastery and crit have a very high synergy
-haste and crit have an okay synergy, though not as good as the one between mastery and crit
-haste and mastery diminish eachother - in all cases it would be better to go either full haste or full mastery, with full mastery being significantly better within the observed min/max

In addition I also found that
-mastery and crit are very close together in value
-mastery will be better then crit at more intervals than vice versa
-a balance of mastery and crit shows better results than going purely for one or the other
-while haste may show slightly better results at specific increases, it also does so at specific decreases, and shows loss just before and just after these points - this can only be due to dead time or shot shifting.
-haste will, apart from the specific shot shifting points, be a loss over mastery or crit at all other tested points

[Valen]

Be cautious of looking at people in a guild working on a specific fight; there may be mechanics in the fight that favor non-traditional stats.

Haste vs Mastery for BM is a subject of some debate. Simcraft puts the stats as roughly equal. There are no breakpoints and no points where haste decreases in value. Haste also actually affects far more than just shot shifting; it affects RPPM trinkets, dire beast, your pet, autoshot, haste regen, etc etc. The EJ thread has some discussion of the details near the end of it, but, IMO, the thread author is not assessing stats properly and is ignoring many mechanics, particularly for 5.2.

[Solarflair]

Thanks for the responses!

So:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...eak/solarbeard (505 iLvl)

I went ahead and adjusted some stat weights to favor Mastery over Haste, then threw them in Zeherah's sim. Reported at a 350 DPS loss. I could have calculated improperly, or factored in too much Mastery. Should I hold steady with my reforges, or do you believe I should be leaning more towards a different build?

[Stridur]

Ask mr robot is not really good site for hunters. Use wow reforge its better

[Ambulatory Cube]

The summation of the conversations in the EJ thread basically just say to grab what gear you can, since both Haste and Mastery are extremely close, it'd be better to reforge keeping your offpsec in mind. If you need to switch to SV for a fight, the extra haste will benefit. Go with what works best for you personally.

[Solarflair]

Ask mr robot is not really good site for hunters. Use wow reforge its better

I'd have to disagree with this, if you personally weigh your own secondary stats, they are one in the same. It's not just a 'hit one and done' for when I reforge.

Thanks Ambulatory Cube, so far I'm SV for Horridon and Tortos.
Back to BM, although it has been said that Mastery has more synergy with Crit, Haste is beneficial with a multitude of aspects such as RPPM, focus regen, Dire Beast, etc - so looks like I'll just hold myself as is. But to be more specific, I really don't know when to change to a Mastery build, which appears to be convenient at higher item levels.(?)

[bekiLL]

Lei Shen is very AOE burst based so my immediate assumption is that as BM he is favoring mastery for the Beast Cleave damage assuming that his rotation after stacking up for the Lightning Orbs is Multi-Shit to trigger Beast Cleave followed by Barrage while the pet cleaves.

Sounds reasonable enough to me.

[BergErr]

I was more surprised about his gems, isn't he missing out on few hundred agi?

[Ambulatory Cube]

Mastery also affects Dire Beast, AMoC, and Stampede. From what I understand, the phrase "Crit and Mastery have better synergy" means that when you crit, the crits will be bigger. So basically in that regard it comes down to bigger crits less often, or smaller crits more often. In terms of your pet, it's either going to attack faster (Haste) or its attacks will be stronger overall (Mastery). I'll say again though that you should go for what works best for you and your playstyle. You can sim all day long but actually trying it out for yourself can be very telling.

Do LFR (or a dungeon or whatever tickles your fancy) with your Haste setup, then reforge to Mastery and see how well you perform. If you find yourself switching to SV very often though you may just stick with Haste for convenience's sake.

[Sandwrong]

I was more surprised about his gems, isn't he missing out on few hundred agi?

460 agility, if he just put delicate gems in all his slots. Though I noticed he didn't go for the Mastery socket bonus.

So... Professional opinion, is it best to gem for the most agility possible, or is it best to gem for socket bonuses?

[Ambulatory Cube]

So... Professional opinion, is it best to gem for the most agility possible, or is it best to gem for socket bonuses?

That depends. The amount and value of secondary stats on gems now can actually make them more desirable than straight Agil gems depending on the socket bonus. To quote the EJ thread again because I'm not a mathy person myself, "socket bonus of 30+ agi or 80+ crit or mastery rating is worth using 1 hybrid gem. If you need 2 hybrid gems the socket bonus has to be 55+ agility or 195+ crit or mastery rating."

[Tehterokkar]

460 agility, if he just put delicate gems in all his slots. Though I noticed he didn't go for the Mastery socket bonus.

So... Professional opinion, is it best to gem for the most agility possible, or is it best to gem for socket bonuses?

If going for Socket bonus gives more EH value than pure Agility.

Not really the case for Hunters, most of the time that is.

Eg.(Think this was the T14 Chest?)

Yellow Yellow Socket + 120 Mastery bonus:
80Agi/160Crit + 80Agi/160Crit + 120 Mastery Vs. 160Agi + 160Agi

160 Agi + 320 Crit + 120 Mastery Vs 320 Agi

In this case, the Socket bonus way wins. 440 Secondary Stats(Crit and Mastery are pretty much equal) > 160 Agi

[Chrisbox]

Keep in mind he could, and probably would be tailoring all of his stats just to H Lei shen.

[Saoron]

The only reason we now (5.2) use a crit>haste>mastery build for all specs is because of RPPM. Without any RPPM abilities/trinkets/procs, we would continue to use Crit>Mastery>Haste (Atleast for BM/SV).

But yes, never look at top hunters when they're working on 1 specific fight, and take a general opinion based off of it. My guess is the same, they probably need higher burst single target damage for pushing certain phases etc, and in order to keep up with aoe on adds, he went with mastery (beast cleave).

[eschatological]

Another good reason to not look at top hunters doing progression fights: look at his major glyphs; pathfinding AND disengage, both mobility glyphs. Disengage is often a strong contender for a 3rd glyph if you don't want the 5% heal on disengage, but pathfinding is usually right out. I'm guessing he's using it for mobility on the transitions to get people where they need to be.

It is always an interesting thing to do, trawl armories and logs to see what top people are doing.

[Glurp]

There's nothing odd about his mastery. He just has enough gear that going crit > mastery his mastery is higher than undergeared people's crit. You also can't just simply say "go for socket bonuses" or "don't go for socket bonuses" or "go for socket bonuses of a specific colour". Simply get your stat weights from Female Dwarf and then calculate the value of different gems.

eg: Yellow + Red socket with 60 crit socket bonus.

agi value: 5.0
crit value: 1.7

double agi gems: 320x5 = 1600
agi + crit agi gems: 240x5+180x1.7 = 1506

Double agi is better.

[ttak82]

BM hunters might reforge to mastery often to improve burst damage (eg. Hc Spine of Deathwing).

In this case it seems he aimed for around 33% crit and decided to get the rest of the possible stats reforged to mastery. Plus as another poster noted, he has enough gear to do this.

[Stridur]

I'd have to disagree with this, if you personally weigh your own secondary stats, they are one in the same. It's not just a 'hit one and done' for when I reforge.

Is their any way you can make the site not gem you for some socket bonus, for example it makes me gem for haste in my belt over extra 80 agi

[Deleted]

Is their any way you can make the site not gem you for some socket bonus, for example it makes me gem for haste in my belt over extra 80 agi

there is a way: get your stat weights right.