Why do people hate "Thinking outside the box" bosses?

[Willfox]

I don't really feel like faction champs is "think outside the box"... It's pvp but with npcs, it is already in the game, it was basically just a giant add fight. CC adds, kill priority.

Rhyolith is a completely new mechanic, but it doesn't require any real though... Just dps left or right leg, most groups would just take it around in a rough circle.

Unique does not equal "thinking outside the box". Rhyolith really was pretty dull, faction champs was frustrating because you'd occasionally get insta gimped by bad luck and not every raid group is super organised and keeps everything controlled. Picture a slightly unorganised raid group trying to kill a fight where control is needed above all else? All faction champs boiled down to with most groups was "burn the crap out of one of the healers, CC the other as much as possible", you getting trucked on by a warrior was just an annoyance that you dealt with by popping barkskin and continuing to heal/pew pew.

[ruuBEN]

truth be told i hated faction champs just because it was boring and took a while.
i never wiped to them, not once.

[ripponesan]

Well, i´ll try to explain it.

I didnt play vanilla but i was watching a friend play it for almost a year long until i dicided that this couldnt live anymore with my presence.
Why did i decide this way?

Well i was liking what i was seeing, and i could imagine myself having fun doing it myself.
I did sign up for what wow WAS at that point in time, not what it could develop into.

Then when we hd TBC i got myself raidready and raided the bosses. Actually i noticed that bossfights were not the way they were in vanilla. Even tho i liked it i saw the potential that someone will say "Hmmm even this looks interesting, this is not the game i signed up to play".

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

Raiding gets too complicated for some people when there are unique fights, and instead of recognizing their own inability to handle it they'd rather just blame the boss instead.

[Crym]

A LOT of MMO players aren't good gamers, they just commit a lot of time. Fights like Malygos where they have to learn something new and apply it in a meaningful way expose this fact, and it embarrasses people. There are people who complain about how terrible "major class changes every expansion just when they learned their class" are too. Because it apparently takes them a full year to learn a class that largely plays the way you'd expect that class to play.

The reality is this genre is full of people who want to feel special because they play a video game a lot. When a quick learner with greater reasoning can blast through content they can't even though they play more time every week it's upsetting.

[Paulosio]

Dark animus is just a really boring fight on normal mode (i've never tried heroic) until you get to the phase with the actual boss with the regular raiding type mechanics. The 1st phase is just a lot of standing around and waiting and occasionally dpsing an add.

[namelessone]

Because most people don't like raiding. They will tell you they do, but in reality it's just a huge inconvenience they need to go through to get loot - this is why people hate bosses that aren't tank and spank.

EDIT: This is why so many people lament vanilla raids.

[judgementofantonidas]

Reading the thread about T9 and the faction champions makes me wondering why people mostly hate bosses that are unique and not like the normal "tank, kill adds, go out of shit"?

- Faction Champions: the boss was unique in its way that tanks could not tank the bosses normally. They had the chance to taunt the mobs for a short while but after that, they just ran away. People had to use CC and to play in a special way. The fight was an easy example of how a arena match works and so, everyone complained. Why?
- Lord Rhyolith: you were able to move the boss as you wanted. But not the normal way by "Tank taunt and moves the boss", no! You had to steer him by dealing damage to the right target. Nothing to difficult, you might say. But as we saw, the audience was just crying and complaining about that "stupid steering boss" that was no big deal...
- Dark Animus: the idea is great with having many little adds at the start of the fight where everyone has to tank one of them to not getting destoryed instantly. Doing a little math to understand how you have to deal with the fight seems to be to hard for most players as mostly everyone complains about that stupid boss. Why is it that way?

On the other side, people cheer about a boss like Ragnaros hc (which is really great, don't think, I didn't enjoy that fight too), where you only had the stereotype mechanics "Spread, clump up, AoE adds, focus adds, kite meteor".

Is thinking outside the box really that hard so you cannot enjoy unique bosses the developers are working hard at making for us? (There are more bosses that are unique in its own way but not that special. Feel free to comment (or disagree) with that.)

as a tank and the typical leader of a group it is not a good feeling to be deemed expendable for a fight. add to that there are many raiders who have no interest whatsoever in pvp and the faction champs fight just felt too much like blizzard forcing more pvp down my throat.

I do not mind thinking outside of the box. I do mind pvp however.

[namelessone]

as a tank and the typical leader of a group it is not a good feeling to be deemed expendable for a fight. add to that there are many raiders who have no interest whatsoever in pvp and the faction champs fight just felt too much like blizzard forcing more pvp down my throat.

I do not mind thinking outside of the box. I do mind pvp however.

It isn't PvP if you aren't fighting another player.

[Bearshield]

Reading the thread about T9 and the faction champions makes me wondering why people mostly hate bosses that are unique and not like the normal "tank, kill adds, go out of shit"?

- Faction Champions: the boss was unique in its way that tanks could not tank the bosses normally. They had the chance to taunt the mobs for a short while but after that, they just ran away. People had to use CC and to play in a special way. The fight was an easy example of how a arena match works and so, everyone complained. Why?
- Lord Rhyolith: you were able to move the boss as you wanted. But not the normal way by "Tank taunt and moves the boss", no! You had to steer him by dealing damage to the right target. Nothing to difficult, you might say. But as we saw, the audience was just crying and complaining about that "stupid steering boss" that was no big deal...
- Dark Animus: the idea is great with having many little adds at the start of the fight where everyone has to tank one of them to not getting destoryed instantly. Doing a little math to understand how you have to deal with the fight seems to be to hard for most players as mostly everyone complains about that stupid boss. Why is it that way?

On the other side, people cheer about a boss like Ragnaros hc (which is really great, don't think, I didn't enjoy that fight too), where you only had the stereotype mechanics "Spread, clump up, AoE adds, focus adds, kite meteor".

Is thinking outside the box really that hard so you cannot enjoy unique bosses the developers are working hard at making for us? (There are more bosses that are unique in its own way but not that special. Feel free to comment (or disagree) with that.)

I enjoy "different" fights. Some of the mechanics this tier are actually very interesting imo. But the specific fights you mentioned had mechanics that were just flat out annoying. (short of Dark Animus who I haven't had the opportunity to see yet outside of LFR so I have no opinion on that one). Rhyolith could be very random and buggy and there were nights where we literally felt helpless trying to steer him in the right direction. The concept was interesting, but played out rather clunky.

Faction Champions was a scripted pvp encounter in a pve dungeon. Not everyone enjoys pvp, I for one hate it and that fight played off of the bulk of what I dislike about pvp. And being that nobody in my guild at the time was a pvp'er either, it was a very frustrating encounter. I've played this game since vanilla, I believe wiping is part of raiding but wiping to RNG is very different from wiping as part of learning or even wiping to something stupid that you can learn from.

T9 was a cop-out imo. The dungeon was one room, which contradicts the very concept of a "dungeon". There was no trash, half of the bosses were elite versions of mobs from outside the dungeon and there was no story to the fights. It very much felt like an afterthought. Even the armor felt plain and simple compared to previous tiers.

[Alvito]

With faction champs many players that only needed to and would only use 3 to 4 abilities were in a mess of having to cc and other things they never had to do. Mix that in with the limited amounts of pulls on heroic and ppl just didn't care for the changes in raiding. I for one really liked ToC both norm and heroic with its wipe counter. The only thing I didn't care for was the complete lack of trash so it was an odd raid and left ppl without many cds and other things pull to pull.

[Miralynn]

Only gonna speak on the two fights I've actually done here:

Faction champs was forcing PVE players to PVP, and a lot of people who enjoy PVE but hate PVP (like me) didn't particularly enjoy being forced into an aspect of the game we usually actively avoid. (See also: any number of threads with PVPers complaining that stat differences/revamps will force them to PVE.)

Lord R was just annoying with RNG. Like Prince in Kara, you could do everything right and still get screwed by RNG with the volcanoes. It's annoying when you have the fight down pat but you know you can still wipe to simple rotten luck. I didn't hate it, but it could get a lil' aggravating at times.

[Nayre]

It isn't PvP if you aren't fighting another player.

You're right. It was mock-pvp being forced down our throats. And it was just tedious - especially because it was very possible to have people who had never PvP'd before that fight, and so didn't know how to handle it. If you had a group of people who also PvP'd, it was a joke (a tedious one, but still a joke). If you had people who hadn't really PvP'd before that (even if they were good at PvE)? It could end pretty horribly.

Then add in that, like any PvP environment, it made tanks feel just about useless. Did next-to-no damage and couldn't keep threat on mobs due to a lack of a threat table... you were left hoping you had a good interrupt toolkit, or respeccing to DPS/healing for the fight. Which is pretty fucking lame. It's not often that a tank is entirely expendable in a PvE encounter. And considering some of the reasons people choose to play tanks in the first place (and why they enjoy playing it)... that's not fun.

Obviously, I say this with not a little bit of bitterness at being the tank and raid lead at the time. And that's with me having been a warrior, so I at least had a decent interrupt toolkit. I can't imagine how a prot pally would've felt in that fight without respeccing.

[Alvito]

truth be told i hated faction champs just because it was boring and took a while.
i never wiped to them, not once.

It could be an insanely long fight and that was certainly an issue. I know we had one pull and kill that took over 30 minutes, it was long enough ppl used a 2nd wave of their battle rezes.