Assassination ToT trinket help

[JIMM-]

i have 510 bottle , 522 talisman , 522 bad juju and 522 shado-pan rep trinket.

My ilvl is around ~518. Need help , i reforged everything into haste while capping hit / exp and leftovers go into mastery used badjuju+ talisman today and my dps is noticeably lower when i was using 510 bottle + 522 shado pan rep with mastery > all reforge. But with haste reforge sometimes i do ridiculous dps when the trinkets proc back to back but it is way too inconsistent and is usually lower compared to the standard bottle + mastery reforges.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Was wondering if these trinkets only will shine when heroic gear starts rolling in and ilvl approaches ~535

[Kael]

Why would you switch from full mastery to full haste? Haste may pull above mastery for high levels of mastery and low levels of haste, but the reverse is not the case. Losing a huge chunk of mastery for a huge chunk of haste is a DPS loss for almost all levels of gear (and likely BiS as well, I'd have to check). Beyond that, we'd need to see your armory to run you through ShC/SimC (if someone's ambitious) to get your stat weights as you're currently reforged.

[JIMM-]

i was blindly following shadowcraft's auto optimize reforge after equipping both bad juju + talisman due to the rppm nature of the trinkets..

It feels like at my ilvl only the talisman can compete with bottle + shado pan trink.

I have no idea what i am doing though, for the first time im having trouble picking what to use.

edit : added my armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ealer/advanced

[Kael]

I'm showing the highest results for ToB + Shado-Pan trinket for you. ShC does do some oddities in reforging haste v. mastery - it won't search for a point where haste and mastery are equal, but mass-reforge for the higher stat - but that doesn't seem to be affecting you greatly in this profile.

Agility 17771
Crit Rating 2537
Expertise Rating 1828
Haste Rating 5946
Hit Rating 2557
Mastery Rating 9074

132,418.4 DPS


Assuming all normal 522 trinkets and not 528s.

On a sidenote, a NORMAL spiritsever OH in place of your 510 yields 133,885.9 DPS; the agility gain from the gem is huge.

[JIMM-]

yeah always tried to get one but i just have bad luck with lei shi used elder charms on him everytime, got no luck getting it at all =/

may i know what did u use to achieve the results ?

[Kael]

shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com

This and SimulationCraft are the tools of the analytical trade. Anecdotal evidence, of course, has it's place, but this is a step and a half above napkin math, and errors in the reports are uuusually pretty easy to diagnose.

[JIMM-]

thanks for the tips

i clicked the auto-reforge all it does is it just reforges into 2 inferior builds back and forth
that is below the dps u simluated, i had to check the reforges 1 by 1 and manually find out pieces to reforge to achieve the stats u listed.

am i doing anything wrong?

[Kael]

Nope; one weakness of shadowcraft is that it will mass-reforge your gear to the highest weights available, to the point where the "highest weight" is no longer highest - in this tier, it happens often with Mastery/Haste - if you reforge mastery, haste is ahead (for adding more) and if you reforge haste, mastery is ahead. Ideally, you want to swing into the "sweet spot" where haste and mastery have approximately the same value - swapping one stat for the other, at that point, will be a DPS loss, either way.

You can tweak individual pieces to try to get between that haste reforge and mastery reforge, but if it's +/- 20 DPS the way it very often is, the question of effort is up to you.

[Deleted]

Haste > mastery only applies when you have 2 RPPM Trinkets.

The Shado-Pan Assault trinket is NOT a RPPM trinket, and therefore reforging completely into haste is
a huge dps decrease.

[JIMM-]

thanks again mugajak, guess i am done here =)

texxi, please read before u reply or dont reply at all.

[Venant]

510 Bottle + Talisman of Bloodlust with full mastery reforges likely nets you the best results. the Shado Pan Assault trinket suffers from a few problems, the first being that we already have too much hit and having to reforge to accommodate that trinket seems to result in less than ideal results. The second problem is that beyond the proc lining up well with using all of your cds on the pull, you probably wont have ideal cd lineups later on (the trinket will come off cd and proc again before your vendetta is back up, meaning that if your lucky you might get vendetta up again for the last 8 seconds of the proc). This may be balanced out a bit more if you are using 4pc T15, since you should be able to line up the first and last SB you use with the trinket proccing, and you get quite a bit of burst out of that set bonus (this is from an assassination viewpoint)

[Sesshou]

Most gear set ups will not be over hit cap after reforging with the shadopan trinket, so that isn't really a big deal. Obviously mastery would be preferable, but hit isn't bad. As for cd stacking, having the shadopan trinket up for 50% of your cd's is roughly even with having the bottle up for all of them and having the shado pan proc only get half coinciding with cd's is worth roughly the same as getting an entire bottle proc. Also for fights where you lust/hero on pull and you can stack either of the trinkets with it, shadopan is obviously far more valuable to stack with lust. You are really selling the shadopan trinket short.

[Fluorescent0]

Haste > mastery only applies when you have 2 RPPM Trinkets.

The Shado-Pan Assault trinket is NOT a RPPM trinket, and therefore reforging completely into haste is
a huge dps decrease.

Even then, it's not an asbolute haste > mastery. I'm currently using 522 Talisman and 535 Bad Juju, and my stat values become the same at around 8k mastery and 6.4k haste.

[Hirako]

I have a similar problem as the OP so I thought I'd ask here. OK, so I have Darkmoon trinket upgraded 2/2, Bad Juju, Bottle, and Shado-Pan Assault trinket. ShadowCraft keeps telling that I should use Talisman and Darkmoon trinket. I understand Talisman being this good, but Darkmoon better than both Bad Juju and Bottle? It also shows that Bottle is better than Juju. Should I trust it and go with that?

Keep in mind that all trinkets are LFR quality since that's all I raid these days.

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...dar/Dry/simple

[Kael]

The Darkmoon trinket is absurdly good for its ilevel. It should be the best trinket you have other than Shado-Pan, yes. The Shado-Pan trinket is also very strong, and since it's your only 522, it's definitely a keeper. For hallmark comparisons, 2/2 DMC is almost as good as the Heroic Terror in the Mists - which, when upgraded, is reasonably close to most 522s this tier - and should overtake 502s, other than maybe the Talisman of Bloodlust. 502 ToB could potentially overtake DMC if you needed/had more haste, but it does not at the moment. See the trinket thread stickied here for more details on trinket rankings in general.

Default (armory): 98,654. Top Profile from your available trinkets (DMC 2/2, Shado-Pan): 100,069.5. (ToB/Shado-Pan was only 60 DPS behind)

In short, DMC/Shado-Pan SHOULD be your top trinkets.

A note about ShC trinket rankings: it tells you what the estimated value of a trinket is in that slot, if you were to equip it immediately, without making any changes in your gear, or considering what changes it might make for RPPM trinkets. Make sure to actually "equip" trinkets to test properly.

[shugaraygirl]

Hi, I have read through these threads and I am still not sure which trinket(s) to use, so I figured I would just ask. I have an assn rogue on arygos named Mineeme if it helps to armory me. MY options for trinkets are 522 Ren soul charmer, The Vicious talisman VP trinket from friendly Shadow pan rep, LFR bottle 0/2, and the Relic from Darkmoon faire also not upgraded. Now I am assuming to go with both the 522 trinkets. Are both of them RPPM trinkets where I will need more haste (currently at 3,852)? I believe I read that the Vicious talisman VP trinket is not a RPPM... its proc time is long though (not sure what it is). Any information would be greatly appreciated, Thank you.

[Deleted]

Sorry to hijack this thread but i have a simple question. Is haste better than mastery when you have 2 RPPM trinkets, or when you have 2 RPPM trinkets AND the RPPM meta?

For example, if i get bad juju and rentakis this reset, should i reforge to haste full or wait till i get the meta gem?

[Kael]

Shug- check shadowcraft (link your armory if you need help with it), but the 522s should come out ahead, yeah. Don't worry about getting haste until you replace the VP trinket with another RPPM trinket (the Vicious Talisman is, indeed, a 105-second ICD). When you do, refer to the steps above for figuring out how much haste to get.

Hamhead- see the first few posts in this thread. There's never a time for a full-haste build. How much haste, you need to figure out.

[fallschick]

How come heroic Soul Charm (535) shows as dps loss compared to normal thunderforged juju(528) even when you can use all of the expertise ?

[shugaraygirl]

Thanks for the help. I have been using shadow craft for a while now, I'm not sure about how to plug in certain stat weights and which numbers I should use. I usually use it to see which item is better...i.e. click on a trinket and look at the list it gives to see if it is better then my equipped one. I am linking you mr armory us.battle.net/wow/en/character/arygos/Mineeme/simple. Any tips or info is much appreciated xD. Thank you