Questions about Ra-Den's Blood and what it means

[Lastlivingsoul]

There are several questions about the nature of Titan Technology really do keep me up sometimes.

Titans and Titan Watchers don't bleed, they are made of Stone/Metal I assume to be solid. They also never directly intended for ANY of their creations to become mortal or to have flesh at any point. So the fact that Ra-den bleeds brings up alot of un answered questions.

1) Fleshshaping. The power to accelerate evolution, reverse the curse of the flesh or create horrible mutants. Ra-den must have told Lei Shen how but is there bigger picture Blizzard is winking at for the next expansion? If sooner Who do you think will use it first?

2) Ra-Den's blood is it from the curse of the Flesh or do all watchers have “Super blood”? Do the Titan's themselves bleed?

3) Did Lei Shen find Ra-den already beaten and bleeding? Ra'den speaks of a terrible evil below, was that what did this to him or did Lei Shen?

4) The Saurok and Naga are both lizard/reptile like creations as a result of a titan created device. Were the Naga a freak accidental mutation from the well of eternity or an engineered species designed inside the well of eternity?

4 1/2) Where the Saurok made from scratch or mutated/evolved from smaller lizards with Ra-den's blood.

5) Did the Titan’s simply move on without saying goodbye or did something “happen” to them out in space. Has Olympus fallen?

Your thoughts.

[Manabomb]

!) I've honestly toyed with the idea of a flesh shaping, blood mage, "hemomancer" type class and a lot of the cool things about the mogu and the fact the blood elves got the essence of the dark animus lead me to have a theory that that's what the next class could be based around. A cool idea, but nothing supporting it other than guesses.

2) In my opinion, if Ra-den was effected by the curse of the flesh like that, I think it would be better storywise. There's no definites here, sharing my opinion, but I think all the titans having "super blood" just leads us down the road toward killing the titans (as said at the end of the mantid story, "Your gods are not -your- gods"). Just a bunch of theories with not much solid evidence.

3) The terrible evil is either the chained essence of yarsaraj (spelling) himself or simply the "sha of pride". As far as what/who beat up Ra-den and how Leishen found him, I will paraphrase something I read a while ago; "Nobody knows what happened when Lei Shen delved into the vaults, but he returned different." Something like this.

4) I've always assumed the naga were created via a combination of the "blessing" N'zoth gave them as the well of eternity's residual power. It could be possible that they are titan made, lurking below the wells waters until everything went to hell, then used the wells power to turn high elves into naga. As for where the saurok came from, it's still a bit iffy. We know the Mogu made them, but we don't really know how. Looking at how they literally stitched together Durumu, yet how Primordius seems to be less "created" and more "Mutated" So I'll go with the mogu mutated lizards into Saurok similarly as to how Pandaren, Hozen and Jinyu evolved, but at a much more rapid pace.

5) We literally have heard nothing of the titans themselves since the burning legion was founded and the burning crusade began. I'd assume 3 things. Either they are out fighting an ever pressing battle against the demons and other, theoretical old gods, or they are terra-forming as many worlds as they can. Or the last possibility as you've said, they could already be destroyed and it's up to use the heroes to vanquish the legion blah blah blah boring writing.

Hope you found this helpful, sorry I couldn't answer everything. There are just somethings that we don't have answers for at the moment.

[bufferunderrun]

1) did you remember the forge in the "hall of stone" dungeon back in wotlk? That thing can create living thing but if the user mess around it can create abomination, brann messed few times and ozes, troggs (or kobolds i don't really remember) come out, about the curse of flesh there is nothing to cure on an organism already infected.

2) who know, we never see a true Titan, only their servant, ra-den bleed yes but for example algalon not so different types of servant can behave differently

3) Ra-den fight against the old god that generated the sha, then vanished it's probable that Lei-Shen found him already beaten or suffering by the aftereffect of the fight

4) the naga are highborne mutated, when the well of eternity exploded back in the sundering they where drowed into the sea, queen azshara pladged the old gods to save her and it's accolytes in return she become a servant of them, the old gods cursed them to adapt to the new environment (the deep sea).

4 1/2) probably made from scratch at last lorewalker cho say that

5) No one know for sure, the various lore sources in books and in game say that they simply disappeared after imprisoning the old gods and appointing guardians and watchers and say goodbye to who? The titans regards all their creation has mere tools to do the job done, also it's higly probable that the titans once they discovered the old gods are going back to find if another planet has been infected by them, without counting that the burning legion still destroying their job, ill bet that they are fighting both.

[Chonar]

and the fact the blood elves got the essence of the dark animus

They've got what now? When'd this happen?

[DemoBytom]

They've got what now? When'd this happen?

When you hit exalted with sunreavers you get the quest to slay Dark Animus and drain his essence, that is then poured into small animus golem in front of Lor'Themar..

[Kojo]

They've got what now? When'd this happen?

The elves dug up one of those little golems from somewhere and had you take a glob of the animus to activate it for study. It sits there and buffs hordies who've completed the quest now.

[Golden Yak]

Titans and Titan Watchers don't bleed, they are made of Stone/Metal I assume to be solid.

We don't know this. They may contain a substance like Ra-Den's blood, liquid energy, liquid living metal, or some other substance.

1) Titans know all about creating races of various substances. How Ra-Den's blood was used to affect evolution and transmogrification of living creatures is not elaborate on in the raids, unfortunately. We're simply told that the Mogu shaped flesh, and we see tons of Ra-Den's blood in the Halls of Flesh-Shaping. Perhaps it's used somehow as a medium to make re-shaping an organism easier.

2) I think it's a safe bet that the Watchers of Ulduar and elsewhere have a 'biology' similar to Ra-Den, even if none of them are made of meat.

3) The lore seems to indicate that Lei Shen found Ra-Den and received tremendous powers as a result. Whether he then turned on Ra-Den and imprisoned him, or Ra-Den was already in that weakened state, isn't clear. Y'Shaarj seemed firmly locked away before the Horde and the Alliance arrived, and Ra-Den was probably tasked to watch over Y'Shaarj's remains. Something must have happened to make him trust Lei Shen with power. Ra-Den's abilities seem to involve both 'Animus' (the blood-like substance) and 'Vitae' (an electricity-like energy) - I believe he granted power of Vitae to Lei Shen, and this is the source of Lei Shen's lightning-based abilities. Lei Shen reserved manipulation of Vitae for himself, but allowed his followers to work with Animus.

4) Naga were mutated by the influence of the Old Gods. Saurok were made through Mogu flesh-shaping magic. There doesn't seem to be any connection between the two.

4 1/2) Lorewalker Cho says them being made from basilisk-like creatures - the same type of creatures that the saurok use as pets on Thunder Island, in fact.

5) Who knows? The only thing that's ever matched them has been the Old Gods in the past, and we know there are more Old Gods than the ones trapped on Azeroth.

The elves dug up one of those little golems from somewhere and had you take a glob of the animus to activate it for study. It sits there and buffs hordies who've completed the quest now.

Completing the island reveals that the Blood Elves now have a huge honking sphere of Anima incorporated into their mini-Sunwell. I wonder what they plan to use it for... And may I say that I love the idea of the races upgrading their technology and sorcery by exploring new powers out in the world.

[Chonar]

When you hit exalted with sunreavers you get the quest to slay Dark Animus and drain his essence, that is then poured into small animus golem in front of Lor'Themar..

I.. I see.
I had assumed the quests on Alliance/Horde side were mirrored. Interesting to see that isn't the case.

The alliance / Kirin Tor drains Lei Shen's corpse of power into Antonidas's Staff, you see.
(Something we havent yet been able to do in LFR. omgomgogm horde favoritism!!1)

[Kojo]

Completing the island reveals that the Blood Elves now have a huge honking sphere of Anima incorporated into their mini-Sunwell. I wonder what they plan to use it for... And may I say that I love the idea of the races upgrading their technology and sorcery by exploring new powers out in the world.

Now that I'm looking forward to seeing, damn this realm and it's refusal to progress. Maybe tomorrow.

[Reyzzz]

1) did you remember the forge in the "hall of stone" dungeon back in wotlk? That thing can create living thing but if the user mess around it can create abomination, brann messed few times and ozes, troggs (or kobolds i don't really remember) come out, about the curse of flesh there is nothing to cure on an organism already infected.

Whole tribe of Neferset Tol'vir were "cured" by a simple servant of Al'akir in Uldum.

[Manabomb]

Whole tribe of Neferset Tol'vir were "cured" by a simple servant of Al'akir in Uldum.

And these are the reasons I'm convinced the whole "curse of the flesh" deal was created as a scapegoat to describe when and how races became their races (dwarves, gnomes). Granted there are other races like trolls, tauren, humans (via Vrykul) and others that have existed without once being "cured", however it's the way blizzard uses it in writing that frustrates me. One minute the curse of the flesh is this unstoppable plague for titan made constructs, the next minute servants of al'akir are removing it with some kind of mass dispel.

Back on topic, yes, the blood elves now have this anima thing. Whether or not we will see these anima golems weaponized or the creation of a sect to study the effects of anima and how to manipulate it (my hemomancer idea from my first reply), we don't know. It's all murky water at this point with many theories being thrown about.

[RabidHexley]

And these are the reasons I'm convinced the whole "curse of the flesh" deal was created as a scapegoat to describe when and how races became their races (dwarves, gnomes). Granted there are other races like trolls, tauren, humans (via Vrykul) and others that have existed without once being "cured", however it's the way blizzard uses it in writing that frustrates me.

I'm confused by what you mean in these two sentences, could you clarify?

[Surfd]

TTitans and Titan Watchers don't bleed, they are made of Stone/Metal I assume to be solid. They also never directly intended for ANY of their creations to become mortal or to have flesh at any point. So the fact that Ra-den bleeds brings up alot of un answered questions.

To the best of my knowledge, going by ingame resources / lore, this is infact untrue.

While they did create many of their helper races (earthen, earth giants, Tol'vir), using stone or earth composites (i believe sand in the case of the Tol'vir), those creation matrixes are not actually their standard matrix.

The spech given by the Lorekeeper of Norgannon in Uldaman on the origin of the Dwarves explains that the Earthen were created with a modification of the standard matrix by using a cross section of Azerothian earth for the foundation, instead of the standard biomass construction foundation.

If the standard foundation for the Titan creation matrix is a biomass sample, that would more readily lend itself to creatures of a flesh like nature then those of earth or stone.

Take the Vyrkul for example. There is no evidence of them ever having been stone or stone like. Sure, they were very large, and very rugged looking, but they were still flesh. The Curse of Flesh simply made them weaker (resulting in human offspring).

Also, you have to remember that not all of the races affected by the curse of flesh were direct Titan products. To the best of my knowledge, the mecha-gnomes are not actual Titan products, but were actually made by Mimiron himself, so would be second hand Titan creations.

Likewise, the Iron Dwarves, Iron Vyrkul and Iron Giants were all created by Lokien after he usurped the Forge of Wills.

I am willing to bet that the Kvaldir are actually the direct Titan constructs that were intended to live in / maintain the deep ocean environments (probably created using a seaweed biomass sample, given the way they die) and have actually been displaced from their native lands by the arrival of Azshara and her court (who became naga).

[Manabomb]

I'm confused by what you mean in these two sentences, could you clarify?

I mean that I dislike the curse of flesh's original intention, which was to describe how some races came to be and that I also dislike the way the curse of flesh is used in lore, which is one minute being uncureable and basically extremely difficult to deal with one minute, but the next can be dues ex machina'd like it was just another day at the bad writing factory. I just believe it's poor writing in general that frustrates me the most about the characters/plot/lore of this game.

[bufferunderrun]

I mean that I dislike the curse of flesh's original intention, which was to describe how some races came to be and that I also dislike the way the curse of flesh is used in lore, which is one minute being uncureable and basically extremely difficult to deal with one minute, but the next can be dues ex machina'd like it was just another day at the bad writing factory. I just believe it's poor writing in general that frustrates me the most about the characters/plot/lore of this game.

this, the curse of flesh was described like a deep form of corruption uncurable and that effect future generation in a way that once a race is infected there is no way to turn it back; but suddently blizzard created that tolvir intro where they where cured by a random Alakir servant without any effort. The deep mean of that still possible for a race like gnome to go back to being mechanognome totally stupid imho.

[Chonar]

this, the curse of flesh was described like a deep form of corruption uncurable and that effect future generation in a way that once a race is infected there is no way to turn it back; but suddently blizzard created that tolvir intro where they where cured by a random Alakir servant without any effort. The deep mean of that still possible for a race like gnome to go back to being mechanognome totally stupid imho.

Dwarf's racial skill, Stoneform, always implied that those with a deep connection to the titans could force back the Curse slightly, if only for a short while.

Al'akir was in cahoots with the Old Gods. It wasn't too far fetched that his most powerful servants could take away their master's "gift", in exchange for absolute obedience.

The Old Gods want only chaos. It's their only motivation. A civil war in a Titan facility is awesome chaos. If that meant decursing some of the titans' creations, and have these titan's creations do their will by choice, then that's just all the more appatizing for them.

[Deleted]

Btw
Vitae means Life in latin
Anima means soul
from this you can predict what lei shen did with ra-den.