New dyes + Molten Alliance Pick in Gem Store

[woodydave44]

If you (the royal "you", not you in particular) expected that, you never saw the cash shop. Since day one they've had convenience purchases in the form of the temporary boosts, additional bag slots, and additional bank slots. Those are all convenience purchases that can conceivably give someone an "advantage" over someone else who doesn't have them, but with the way the game is designed, it never actually leads to more power for your character.

Aside from bank slots, everything else was attainable in game. Banks slots were supposed to be the only exception which we were all aware of before we purchased the game.

[rhandric]

Aside from bank slots, everything else was attainable in game. Banks slots were supposed to be the only exception which we were all aware of before we purchased the game.

Bank slots, bag slots, character slots, boosts...*technically* boosts are obtainable in game (after all, I have a bag full of them) through the free keys you can get from the personal story + black lion chests, so you can dismiss it if you wish...regardless, all convenience items only available from the gem shop. But, as with everything in the gem shop, nothing gives you a power advantage, only convenience or vanity.

[Rukh]

I think people hope that if they make enough people a bit worried, Anet will make sure that such a thing definitely doesn't happen/.

[rhandric]

The people who are afraid and think they *need* to make people worried, so that ANet will make sure it doesn't happen, are the same set of people who don't trust ANet to make sure it doesn't happen to begin with, despite ANet's previous commentary on the gem store

[Meledelion]

Again devil's advocate: a-net has said a lot of things (major sPvP patch, ranger overhaul,...) on which they didn't deliver, a commentary isn't a reason to start trusting them.

[rhandric]

While I agree with that at a base level, it comes down to a simple thing, that most people are missing: vote with your wallet. You don't like it, you don't have to buy it. If ANet starts selling power in the gem shop, then you can protest (and I'm sure those of us who are fine with this item will be right up there with you); until then, calm down. (And yes, Meledelion, I know you were playing devil's advocate, and was directing my post at the general 'you')

[Valeron]

You can get everything available in the gem shop in game, if you have the gold.

[Zdrasti]

As I see it, this thing has a number of advantages.

1) Vanity -- Cool animation
2) Convenience -- Never having to replace your mining pick
3) Inventory slots -- Never having to carry spare/multiple types of mining picks (20 slot bags cost 11g+)
4) No missing nodes -- Earns marginal extra money from not randomly running out mining picks and not being able to harvest
5) Time is money, friend -- Wastes less time going back to a merchant looking for a mining pick
6) Free mining picks -- No more money spent on mining picks

Ultimately, I see the inventory slots, convenience, and time saving measures to be the most important. You're not going to make a lot of money off this directly (probably years of boring farming to make it up directly). But the fact that it saves you time, which you can in turn spend doing much more productive things (opportunity cost), is far more significant. And on top of that, it looks cool. So I bought one.

[carnifex2005]

As I see it, this thing has a number of advantages.

1) Vanity -- Cool animation
2) Convenience -- Never having to replace your mining pick
3) Inventory slots -- Never having to carry spare/multiple types of mining picks (20 slot bags cost 11g+)
4) No missing nodes -- Earns marginal extra money from not randomly running out mining picks and not being able to harvest
5) Time is money, friend -- Wastes less time going back to a merchant looking for a mining pick
6) Free mining picks -- No more money spent on mining picks

Ultimately, I see the inventory slots, convenience, and time saving measures to be the most important. You're not going to make a lot of money off this directly (probably years of boring farming to make it up directly). But the fact that it saves you time, which you can in turn spend doing much more productive things (opportunity cost), is far more significant. And on top of that, it looks cool. So I bought one.

Pretty much exactly the reasons why I bought it tonight as well too. After thinking about it, I'm not going to miss the 22 gold it cost and I'll end up using it everyday on my main since that is what I use to run dailies and do meta events. That pick is definitely the type of item the gem store should have more of.

[Edge-]

Aside from bank slots, everything else was attainable in game. Banks slots were supposed to be the only exception which we were all aware of before we purchased the game.

Fun fact: The potential gold gains from spending real money on the molten pick can also be offset by spending more time farming in-game to purchase the additional picks if you want.

That's kinda the definition of convenience without selling power...

[woodydave44]

Fun fact: The potential gold gains from spending real money on the molten pick can also be offset by spending more time farming in-game to purchase the additional picks if you want.

That's kinda the definition of convenience without selling power...

It seems your only focus is on the gems/gold cost. Let me quote for you again

Saving you time and effort is an advantage over people that dont buy it, no matter how small. Anet promised that there would be 0 items that give any kind of advantage, period. Unless this item becomes attainable in game without gems, then they have effectively gone back on their word, thus starting the snowball effect. Saving you time an effort at the cost of gems as the only attainable method is an advantage, regardless if you think the in game gold cost conversion is worth it or not.

[rhandric]

And again, there have always been convenience and vanity items in the gem shop

[woodydave44]

Bank slots, bag slots, character slots, boosts...*technically* boosts are obtainable in game (after all, I have a bag full of them) through the free keys you can get from the personal story + black lion chests, so you can dismiss it if you wish...regardless, all convenience items only available from the gem shop. But, as with everything in the gem shop, nothing gives you a power advantage, only convenience or vanity.

Thus re-enforcing my quote on stuff that was made aware before game purchase.

---------- Post added 2013-04-19 at 01:31 PM ----------

And again, there have always been convenience and vanity items in the gem shop

The convenience of the item only being attainable by gems is the advantage, and anet going back on their word, thus opening the door for the the snowball effect. Is this really hard to understand?

If you think i'm being paranoid, should I bring up all the other things anet said they would do or not do, only to go back on their words?

[rhandric]

I'll just leave this here

We think players should have the opportunity to spend money on items that provide visual distinction and offer more ways to express themselves. They should also be able to spend money on account services and on time-saving convenience items. But it’s never OK for players to buy a game and not be able to enjoy what they paid for without additional purchases, and it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time.

[woodydave44]

I'll just leave this here

And EA states that they care about customer satifaction....

Way to post a quote with Mike contradicting himself. Time-saving convenience items (bought with gems only) are an unfair advantage, and you cant seem to explain why I am wrong.

[rhandric]

How is it an advantage? It doesn't grant you extra power. It doesn't make you better at playing the game. It doesn't play the game for you. It doesn't get you anything you couldn't get just playing the game without it. The original blog, to which the link is currently broken after ANet rearranged their blog, basically said that the gem shop is there to allow players with more time to play how they want, and players with less time (but, as a result, likely more money) to purchase convenience items to make up for their lack of time. No contradiction there, and as it's up to the player to decide for himself if/when/what they buy from the gem shop, and those purchases can be made using real or in-game currency, there's no advantage.

Again. The gem shop sells vanity and convenience (and in this case, an item that's both vanity and a convenience) items; it does not sell power. If that changes, I'll be right there with you bitching about broken promises and whatnot. But, this item doesn't break that, nor does it even come close.

And, as someone previously stated, it's like complaining that Blizzard sells mounts or pets in their cash shop.

[Drakhar]

I think some people are trying to drum up some manic fear ;-)

If you're implying me, then I'm absolutely not, despite what Captain Strawman may have to say.

Since day one they've had convenience purchases in the form of the temporary boosts, additional bag slots, and additional bank slots.

And again, there have always been convenience and vanity items in the gem shop

Jesus Tittyfucking Christ. How difficult is it for you people to see that this item is not the same as temporary boosts and additional slots.

The game isn't pay to win, (or going that way) this won't severely impact the economy, and the sky is not falling. But it's still another broken promise and yet another issue ANet has brought upon themselves which is worth notice/worry/discussion.

I'll just leave this here

Ah so "it’s never OK for players who spend money to have an unfair advantage over players who spend time" means it's totally cool for a gem shop item to have an advantage since you can buy gems with gold. Thanks for reinforcing my worries and proving my point, Mike.

And, as someone previously stated, it's like complaining that Blizzard sells mounts or pets in their cash shop.

That's because that analogy is awful. Blizzard doesn't sell a one-time purchase that lets you never pay for armor repairs again, or get all flight paths free (inb4 LAWLBUTFLYINGMOUNTS). Which is essentially what this is, removal of a significant gold sink for a large up-front cost that will pay for itself over time. That you (and for the "LAWLGOLDGEMCONVERSION" folks, read: someone) have to pay for with real money.

[rhandric]

Quote for us the promise you think they broke, then.

[Purple]

It seems your only focus is on the gems/gold cost. Let me quote for you again

No, I'd say edgecrusher was pretty spot on, your own quote just sounds like getting bent out of shape over nothing, and turning something passing and small into a vast mountain.

If you think this is an example of getting an advantage over another player, your scope of what cash shop MMOs do is severely tiny and naive. This is literally nothing compared to permanent state boosts, items that raise level caps, full sets of gear that levels with you to max or fully statted max level gear that you can wear at level one. You've obviously never seen items that triple your damage permanently, that unlock entire classes or vehicles or abilities that outperform any base classes vehicles or abilities. I could give you an endless barrage of examples from existing cash shop MMOs, but in the end it would be pointless because you'd still be hung up on a mining pick that costs the equivalent of twenty in game gold, that, by the way, I can with in game gold by converting it into gems and completely kick the idea that I've bought power or advantage with real money out the window.

If I can buy it with in game gold, and it's not offering me any over the top gameplay advantage.. then I'd say they're on the right track, and no, being able to mine without my pick breaking doesn't seem be an advantage at all. It's convenient, certainly, since I don't have to fill up my inventory with picks when I'm on a mining spree, and I don't have to run back to vendors to buy more. That's definitely convenient, but an advantage? If you stretch the word advantage to the breaking point, and imply that people can't easily purchase it with in game currency.. then, yes, I'd see how you'd have a problem with it. However, I'm not going to stretch the word advantage to its breaking point, and the pick was easily acquired with gold I'd made in game (that I'd long ago turned into gems back when the exchange rate was in my favor). Anyone can do this. Not just people sinking real money into the cash shop.

I have purchased most of the cash shop items they've released; and I've never, not even once, had to use real money to purchase out of the cash shop.

Converting gold to gems when the cost is low and the return high, while converting gems to gold when the gold return would be greater.. that's also a thing of beauty, and makes gem store purchases at later dates cost less gold in the long run. Forethought, long term planning.. all that fun stuff.

They sold convenience, not power (not even a real advantage), the end.

[Deleted]

what promise did they break when they introduced this new item?? please explain....