Explosions At Boston Marathon

[Themius]

9/11 was clearly n attack on the USA... I don't know if I can call this now an attack really..
An attack on a country has one significant characteristic.. It's executed from outside.
It was an attack on humanity, an attack on peaceful international sports events.
But I don't know if I would call it an attack on the USA. At least not yet.
For that I just want to see facts first.
Have people not learned from the events yesterday?
The two guys robbed a convenience store........ FALSE. They did not.
The guy is on the loose in a green Honda...... FALSE... He ran away on foot, hiding in a boat all day long.
As false as those things were, chances are also that they weren't politically motivated at all, or only one of them, and the other not..
And as far as muslims goes... How come Muslims expressed sympathize with the people from Boston?

Those are Muslims too you know:

I never painted a picture of Muslims. I have posted many times on this forum in threads about Muslims and terrorism or just fucked up Sharia shit, on the side of "not all Muslims are bad, just these people that did this horrible thing happen to be Muslim"

[Grummgug]

Reading about this guy:
http://gma.yahoo.com/dzhokhar-tsarna...opstories.html

It shows you what a true sociopath is like. They feel NOTHING. They can blow people up and then go back to their lives as if nothing happened. And he perfectly fits into society as some average joe, hanging out, smoking dope, listening to rap, playing video games.

Sociopaths are often found among the ranks of successful CEOs and salesmen. In both cases, actually feeling genuine empathy holds you back. Often they can fake empathy so well, you cannot tell the difference. In the case with this 19 year old, it allows him to be a bomber and not feel a bit of remorse so he can return to his college life and hang out again.

[Themius]

I was referring to Lebanon in that list where the US blindly supports Israel.

Israel has a religious culture that's closer to Christianity which in turn makes their culture closer to ours compared to the other countries in that region. On top of this we need an ally in the mid east, and they're the best ones.

[Wildtree]

to be fair, for the most part I can't find a common ground to even begin to be friends with those guys. God knows I've tried as the sis inlaw dates them nonstop. It feels like there's something so fundamentally different there that makes it dam near impossible to actually get to know them

I have mixed experiences really. Back in Germany, at work, I've happened to have had a bunch of Muslim co-workers. You could tell a difference simply by knowing where they came from. Modern day Turks, despite being Muslims they did blend in just fine, and were pulling the same funny stunts, laughed about the same jokes, and worked as valuable as we Germans were. Yet I remember one case, a total special case to say.. That guy was really something, I'd consider him an extreme religious example. He was rather reclusive, for the lack of knowing enough German. He needed a coworker as translator. He was a helper in our department. The crazy thing, and the only time I've ever got pissed about someone's religion, he went and prayed every time it was due. We've joked how he was sure to know where Mecca was, because we were working three stories down under ground. But, the downfall, he literally ran off to pray, totally disregarding his work. Out work was set, that he was needed every 30 - 45 minutes, no excuse. He had to be there, that was his sole purpose as helper. But if that time fell into his prayer, he screwed you over, by running off. Gosh that pissed me off once, since I hurt my back because of his stupid praying by trying to do alone what I needed a second person for.
I still stick with the overwhelming positive experience I have with Muslims. They are people too, and just like us vary between awesome and asshole.

[N-7]

Israel has a religious culture that's closer to Christianity which in turn makes their culture closer to ours compared to the other countries in that region. On top of this we need an ally in the mid east, and they're the best ones.

Still your blind support to them and some of their questionable acts generates hatred for you in the region. Your invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan causes more hatred and so does the bombing of Yemen and Pakistan. It is a vicious cycle of hate acting like a terrorist-factory.

P.S. And by the way did you know that the US basically created Al-Qaeda and still to some degree support them in Syria (you're number one terrorist enemy was the result of an experiment done by the US Government in their war against communism, you can blame them at least for that).

[Wildtree]

I never painted a picture of Muslims. I have posted many times on this forum in threads about Muslims and terrorism or just fucked up Sharia shit, on the side of "not all Muslims are bad, just these people that did this horrible thing happen to be Muslim"

Yes we can agree on that.. But the religious motives, and therefore their religion as a whole can be and should be ignored, until we know different

[Thephayul]

I have mixed experiences really. Back in Germany, at work, I've happened to have had a bunch of Muslim co-workers. You could tell a difference simply by knowing where they came from. Modern day Turks, despite being Muslims they did blend in just fine, and were pulling the same funny stunts, laughed about the same jokes, and worked as valuable as we Germans were. Yet I remember one case, a total special case to say.. That guy was really something, I'd consider him an extreme religious example. He was rather reclusive, for the lack of knowing enough German. He needed a coworker as translator. He was a helper in our department. The crazy thing, and the only time I've ever got pissed about someone's religion, he went and prayed every time it was due. We've joked how he was sure to know where Mecca was, because we were working three stories down under ground. But, the downfall, he literally ran off to pray, totally disregarding his work. Out work was set, that he was needed every 30 - 45 minutes, no excuse. He had to be there, that was his sole purpose as helper. But if that time fell into his prayer, he screwed you over, by running off. Gosh that pissed me off once, since I hurt my back because of his stupid praying by trying to do alone what I needed a second person for.
I still stick with the overwhelming positive experience I have with Muslims. They are people too, and just like us vary between awesome and asshole.

I know for fact that there are good muslims. Just saying that with my admitted small experience with i can ee wheremuch of the hate and suspicion comes from. And it's not a race thing, I know white/black/arab and god only knows what mix muslims. All were from montreal and thats a pretty tolerant city

[Themius]

Still your blind support to them and some of their questionable acts generates hatred for you in the region. Your invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan causes more hatred and so does the bombing of Yemen and Pakistan. It is a vicious cycle of hate acting like a terrorist-factory.

P.S. And by the way did you know that the US basically created Al-Qaeda and still to some degree support them in Syria (you're number one terrorist enemy was the result of an experiment done by the US Government in their war against communism, you can blame them at least for that).

We didn't support Al'Qaeda, we supported Afghan mujahideen fighters.

[N-7]

I never painted a picture of Muslims. I have posted many times on this forum in threads about Muslims and terrorism or just fucked up Sharia shit, on the side of "not all Muslims are bad, just these people that did this horrible thing happen to be Muslim"

Except you focus tend to focus on the "happen to be Muslim" bit a bit too much.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 03:30 PM ----------

We didn't support Al'Qaeda, we supported Afghan mujahideen fighters.

And where do you think these mujahideen fighters disappeared to?

EDIT: What about your government support to groups within Syria who are affiliated with Al-Qaeda are you going to deny that too?

[Themius]

Except you focus tend to focus on the "happen to be Muslim" bit a bit too much.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 03:30 PM ----------


And where do you think these mujahideen fighters disappeared to?

In those threads usually what happened was x Muslim did y bad thing in their country. Here I am on the side of... these people were likely Muslims and it shouldn't surprise anyone as we have many attacks by them. Plus they come from an Islamic country.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapc...ers/index.html

Scholars and reporters have called the idea of CIA-backed Afghan Arabs (foreign mujahideen) "nonsense",[10] "sheer fantasy",[11] and "simply a folk myth."

with a quarter of a million local Afghans willing to fight there was no need to recruit foreigners unfamiliar with the local language, customs or lay of the land
with several hundred million dollars a year in funding from non-American, Muslim sources, Arab Afghans themselves would have no need for American funds
Americans could not train mujahideen because Pakistani officials would not allow more than a handful of U.S. agents to operate in Pakistan and none in Afghanistan;[13]
the Afghan Arabs were militant Islamists, reflexively hostile to Westerners, and prone to threaten or attack Westerners even though they knew the Westerners were helping the mujahideen.

Al-Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri says much the same thing in his book Knights Under the Prophet's Banner.

Bin Laden himself once said "the collapse of the Soviet Union ... goes to God and the mujahideen in Afghanistan ... the US had no mentionable role," but "collapse made the US more haughty and arrogant."

[N-7]

In those threads usually what happened was x Muslim did y bad thing in their country. Here I am on the side of... these people were likely Muslims and it shouldn't surprise anyone as we have many attacks by them. Plus they come from an Islamic country.

Not that many and they lived most of their live outside of Islamic countries (since a young age that is).

[Shennanigans]

I'm interested to hear what pans about the fact that the FBI had met with these 2 more than once according to the parents for several years leading up to the bombing.

[xxf2dxx]

I still feel like this whole event seems off.

[Themius]

Not that many and they lived most of their live outside of Islamic countries (since a young age that is).

Yet they turned around and committed a terrorist attack to a country that gave them shelter.

[N-7]

Yet they turned around and committed a terrorist attack to a country that gave them shelter.

Why did they do it? Do you know? I don't.

Why did the Sandy Hook shooter did what he did? Was it because he was Muslim too?

[Themius]

I'm interested to hear what pans about the fact that the FBI had met with these 2 more than once according to the parents for several years leading up to the bombing.

I wouldn't be so surprised. The FBI does investigate things like thing from time to time. Take the almost bomber in New York who the FBI knew about, yet he was seen as not a threat even though they knew he wanted to build a bomb. Usually police wouldn't be able to make an arrest but some new law allowed them to ignore the FBI and make the arrest and they did that and he was building a bomb. If not for that I really think we would have had a "FBI dropped the ball" moment.

---------- Post added 2013-04-20 at 10:39 AM ----------

Why did they do it? Do you know? I don't.

Well they weren't very pro American, is how it sounds thus far.

[Wildtree]

We didn't support Al'Qaeda, we supported Afghan mujahideen fighters.

Some of which are the founders of Al Qaeda.
http://www.historycommons.org/contex...erationcyclone

In short:
The origins of al-Qaeda as a network inspiring terrorism around the world and training operatives can be traced to the Soviet War in Afghanistan (December 1979 – February 1989). The U.S. viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahideen, some of whom were radical Islamic militants, on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. A CIA program called Operation Cyclone channeled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the Afghan Mujahideen who were fighting the Soviet occupation.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/cloonan.html

[N-7]

Well they weren't very pro American, is how it sounds thus far.

Did you ignore the second question on purpose?

Why did the Sandy Hook shooter did what he did? Was it because he was Muslim too? And also the Batman theater shooter was he a Muslim too?

[Deleted]

I have mixed experiences really. Back in Germany, at work, I've happened to have had a bunch of Muslim co-workers. You could tell a difference simply by knowing where they came from. Modern day Turks, despite being Muslims they did blend in just fine, and were pulling the same funny stunts, laughed about the same jokes, and worked as valuable as we Germans were. Yet I remember one case, a total special case to say.. That guy was really something, I'd consider him an extreme religious example. He was rather reclusive, for the lack of knowing enough German. He needed a coworker as translator. He was a helper in our department. The crazy thing, and the only time I've ever got pissed about someone's religion, he went and prayed every time it was due. We've joked how he was sure to know where Mecca was, because we were working three stories down under ground. But, the downfall, he literally ran off to pray, totally disregarding his work. Out work was set, that he was needed every 30 - 45 minutes, no excuse. He had to be there, that was his sole purpose as helper. But if that time fell into his prayer, he screwed you over, by running off. Gosh that pissed me off once, since I hurt my back because of his stupid praying by trying to do alone what I needed a second person for.
I still stick with the overwhelming positive experience I have with Muslims. They are people too, and just like us vary between awesome and asshole.

This is an issue we have in the armed forces too, we cannot allow strict muslims to join for this very reason.

[Wildtree]

I'm interested to hear what pans about the fact that the FBI had met with these 2 more than once according to the parents for several years leading up to the bombing.

From what I read, only with the older brother in 2011, as per request of a foreign country that was and won't be revealed. There he was questioned by the FBI and the case was closed. It had no US related reasons.