4th spec would solve all class problems.

[Deleted]

For Paladins you could add Priestess of the Moon (which, in name, although priests, have more in common with paladins then anyone else, for other races besides those that follow Elune they could just be considered ranged paladins, holy archers or something) and for priests you could have voodoo priest, related to Loas, spirits, you know, that part of the religion in WoW that doesn't fit with shamans but nor does it fit with the Light priests and stuff... spiritmenders or something, can't think of a name, witch doctors if you will.

[Teriz]

snip

I never positioned myself as a game designer. All of my class threads were simply ideas, nothing more, and nothing less, and used for entertainment purposes. That's why I never put the values into my class concepts or abilities, because I don't have the desire to argue math with something that may or may not happen. What would be the point in that?

As for what Blizzard can and cannot do, I'll leave that to Blizzard. They're adding stuff to the game constantly, and will no doubt add new classes and races to the game until they turn the servers off. So clearly the situation isn't as bad as your pretend it to be. When Blizzard comes out and says "We can't add anything else to WoW because the game has reached its limit on what we can add to the game", I'll stop making class threads. Until then, I'm going to continue to post new ideas for the game I love.

[Deleted]

4th specs for every class would cause more problems than it would fix.

[Lykoris]

Pretty much all you suggested already exists or is covered by another spec/class.

ie. Demon Hunters will never exist because we already have Demonology which is close enough.
ie2. Beast Master = Beast Mastery and melee Hunters were already discounted because Survival was originally melee but obviously blizz decided that it was a dumb idea.

Are you high right now. You are not suggesting anything new or exciting or ~revolutionary~.

[Hyve]

Except that Blizzard resets classes every expansion anyway, so the game will never be perfectly balanced. Also people complaining about balance aren't speaking for Blizzard, who have never said that they have problems balancing their game.

First; Classes don't reset every expansion. Many classes get adjustments, but there is no Class Reset.

Second; Blizzard have said millions and millions of times, that PvP will never be balanced because of the vast amount of Classes, Talents, Spells & Abilities, and the Synergy they could potentially all have together.

Honestly, I hope we don't see any new Race or Class this upcoming Expansion, because quite simply (Not as prevalent with Races) I don't think the PvP Community is going to be very happy with things only getting more out of hand then they are already. Early Expansion is always hell, mid-expansion is always okay, end-expansion is always a pretty balanced time (excluding insane Legendaries or PvE Gear).

With every new class added, the time it takes to get into the more balanced areas of the PvP season takes longer, and is harder to manage. It is just basic math.

Balancing how the game works around 11 Classes is one thing, but to then balance it around 11 Classes, 33 Talent Trees, The Thousands of Combinations of Talents, The Thousands of Spells, Abilities, Talents, Races & Professions then makes the game insanely hard to manage.

[Lothrik]

Pretty much 100% agree with UcanDoSht. OP's post is poorly thought out and solves nothing. I especially like how you shut down the idea that Priests could use a 4th spec, while simultaneously suggesting that Druids need a 5th.

[Stir]

I never positioned myself as a game designer. All of my class threads were simply ideas, nothing more, and nothing less, and used for entertainment purposes. That's why I never put the values into my class concepts or abilities, because I don't have the desire to argue math with something that may or may not happen. What would be the point in that?

As for what Blizzard can and cannot do, I'll leave that to Blizzard. They're adding stuff to the game constantly, and will no doubt add new classes and races to the game until they turn the servers off. So clearly the situation isn't as bad as your pretend it to be. When Blizzard comes out and says "We can't add anything else to WoW because the game has reached its limit on what we can add to the game", I'll stop making class threads. Until then, I'm going to continue to post new ideas for the game I love.

The first thing: Why wouldn't you? If you like putting effort in those ideas, effort enough to write posts, think things through with flavour and fluff, and even find pictures to go with it, why wouldn't you want to deliver an actual class?

As for what Blizzard can and cannot do: There is a huge, huge difference between what you propose and adding extra classes and races. Blizzard could add an entirely new class with something along the same lines of effort to one new fourth specialty option. It's much easier to start from the ground up than it is to add an extra wing to an already full-grown pigeon and make it work. I never said anything about having reached the limits of everything, and I never said you should stop making class threads. What I said was that what you are suggestion lacks understanding in game design, and I then pointed you to a few places that might allow you to gain some experience and put your ideas to some good use.

[Deleted]

I remember this conversation taking place a couple of days ago.

If the DH is not a caster, why can't you see the problem of giving it as a spec to Warlocks, you know, a class that is a spellcaster, and uses lots of spells.

I made that argument several months ago. I no longer believe that Warlocks should have a DH spec either. Demon Hunters belong with Archmages and Archdruids: An NPC prestige class of sorts that has no place in the game as a playable class.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20846253

So you've changed your opinion, again?

[Teriz]

Pretty much all you suggested already exists or is covered by another spec/class.

ie. Demon Hunters will never exist because we already have Demonology which is close enough.
ie2. Beast Master = Beast Mastery and melee Hunters were already discounted because Survival was originally melee but obviously blizz decided that it was a dumb idea.

Are you high right now. You are not suggesting anything new or exciting or ~revolutionary~.

Demonology isn't a melee spec, and Apotheosis is attached to a glyph. Make the glyph the basis for the new spec, and add a DW melee component. Viola! You have yourself a Demon Hunter.

As for Beast Master, just because melee hunters were discounted in early WoW doesn't mean that they would be discounted in future WoW. Also Rexxar remains a popular character in the game, and Beast Master WC3 remains a popular concept. There was actually a thread that just recently popped up discussing it as an entire class.

Hence the point of this thread; People clearly want more than what is provided by current classes. This idea would solve that problem, and probably lead to higher subscription numbers.

[Lothrik]

I remember this conversation taking place a couple of days ago.





http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20846253

So you've changed your opinion, again?

I think he's just googling random class names and cobbling together ideas already used in other games. At the bare minimum that's what he's doing for all these pictures he seems to think add substance to his topics.

[Stir]

Hence the point of this thread; People clearly want more than what is provided by current classes. This idea would solve that problem, and probably lead to higher subscription numbers.

Rule number one of game design: Never give the people what they want. Because they'll be terribly unhappy with it when they get it, and you'll be busting your brains destroying your own creation.
The fact that WoW doesn't have several things that many people want is not a problem. It doesn't need a fix. There need not be a solution. Unless a function needs to be filled that isn't, nothing is technically lacking. Meaning that every class you've got beyond 'Guardian, Medic, Damage Dealer' is already a luxury that is not technically required. It's great that we've got all these different ways to do things, but we're already starting to see homogenization ruling the different roles and classes... Adding more options would increase homogenization because of the massing of 'different' things within a basically finite system. Expanding this finite system on a whim (which is pretty much what you are suggesting to be necessary) is nothing short of detrimental.

[ErothTV]

No. The game is imbalanced because of the sheer insane amount of class, talents, spells, abilities and their synergy. Adding another set is only going to make so much worse!

So?
I'd like to play a game that has even more and more diversity of classes/specs/talents/ etc.. than actual is present in World of Warcraft.
Please remeber - we're paying for playing it,
And it seems they hire not proper people to do the work.

I'd love to see other int plates, more tanks (Shaman is a good example though), healers!


@To the imbalance.
Maybe they should just do two separate talents trees? One for PvE and one for PvP?

[Teriz]

First; Classes don't reset every expansion. Many classes get adjustments, but there is no Class Reset.

Actually every class gets ability realignments, new talents, new glyphs, new spells, new stat adjustments, etc. Some classes are completely remade altogether. See Warlocks. My point is that classes are never static, they are constantly changed even when no new class is added to the game. Thus its silly to complain about a new addition throwing things off balance.

With every new class added, the time it takes to get into the more balanced areas of the PvP season takes longer, and is harder to manage. It is just basic math.

Actually Cataclysm was more unbalanced than MoP, and no new classes were added in Cataclysm. PvP was worse than it is now with a new class, and a redesigned Warlock class. So new class and spec introduction has little to do with how a expansion will end up balanced wise.

And seriously, PvP players are never happy in any expansion.

Balancing how the game works around 11 Classes is one thing, but to then balance it around 11 Classes, 33 Talent Trees, The Thousands of Combinations of Talents, The Thousands of Spells, Abilities, Talents, Races & Professions then makes the game insanely hard to manage.

They can manage. Blizzard is a big company with the capability to manage a big game. I pay them a monthly fee to ensure that they can manage making the game bigger and better. Don't you?

[hulkgor]

I'd like a revamp of the moonkin form, wouldn't mind running around as a keeper of the grove! But no reason for a 4th spec, game is horrendously balanced as it is...

[Teriz]

I remember this conversation taking place a couple of days ago.





http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20846253

So you've changed your opinion, again?

No, I still feel that way. I'd prefer a different Warlock 4th spec, because I always disagreed with pushing Warlocks towards becoming Demon Hunters.

However, I understand that this is the direction that Blizzard wants Warlocks to go, so I've accepted it. If 4th specs are added to the game, Demon Hunters would be the most obvious choice. Should they have it? In my OPNION No. If implemented will they have it? More than likely.

[Northem]

First I must congratulate you for your work, as it is completely feasible and fits almost perfectly with the actual gameplay.

Although I prefer that some of the specializations that you comment were autonomous and independent classes by themselves (as is the case of necromancers and demon hunters) I am aware that the method you propose is the most direct and easy way to apply them. That's why I voted YES on the poll.

[Teriz]

Rule number one of game design: Never give the people what they want. Because they'll be terribly unhappy with it when they get it, and you'll be busting your brains destroying your own creation.
The fact that WoW doesn't have several things that many people want is not a problem. It doesn't need a fix. There need not be a solution. Unless a function needs to be filled that isn't, nothing is technically lacking. Meaning that every class you've got beyond 'Guardian, Medic, Damage Dealer' is already a luxury that is not technically required. It's great that we've got all these different ways to do things, but we're already starting to see homogenization ruling the different roles and classes... Adding more options would increase homogenization because of the massing of 'different' things within a basically finite system. Expanding this finite system on a whim (which is pretty much what you are suggesting to be necessary) is nothing short of detrimental.

But here's the point;

We both agree that at some point Blizzard will introduce another class into the game correct? If that is a certainty, then your argument is irrelevant because Blizzard is going to add new classes and specs to the game. More than likely, it will be something that someone requested at some point. Homogenization, balance, etc is pointless to argue, because we both acknowledge that at some point in WoW's future, another class will show up in the game.

Hopefully you understand.

[Deleted]

No, I still feel that way. I'd prefer a different Warlock 4th spec, because I always disagreed with pushing Warlocks towards becoming Demon Hunters.

However, I understand that this is the direction that Blizzard wants Warlocks to go, so I've accepted it. If 4th specs are added to the game, Demon Hunters would be the most obvious choice. Should they have it? In my OPNION No. If implemented will they have it? More than likely.

Wait wait wait wait. I just realized you have a Demon Hunter hero class thread linked in your sig. Oh this is fun. You basically debunk every argument against a Demon Hunter class that you yourself have brought in any thread.

Solving some problems with Demon Hunters

1. Demon Hunters don’t wear armor.
A. See the Deconstruction section.

2. Only elves can be Demon Hunters.
A. I agree, which is why this class is limited to only 2 races; Blood Elves and Night Elves.

3. Metamorphosis and Immolation are Warlock abilities.
A. True, but the Demon Hunter version of Metamorphosis and Immolation are very different than the Warlock versions.

4. Demon Hunters are too powerful to start at level one.
A. Agreed, which is why they should be a hero class and start at level 55. This will also set them up to enter the Burning Crusade right out of their training zone.

5. Demon Hunters are just like Warlocks.
A. Demon Hunters are to Warlocks as Paladins are to Priests. They use the same magic type, but fulfill very different purposes.

6. Demon Hunters have no niche to fill.
A. Disagree. There is a “Battle Mage” niche that is missing from the game. Demon Hunters can fill that role with a mixture of melee and ranged attacks.

7. Warglaives are rare weapons!
A. Demon Hunters would have their own training grounds and exclusive equipment similar to Monks in Mists of Pandaria.

8. Why no Diablo 3 version of Demon Hunter?
A. This is Warcraft, not Diablo. Also the majority of players want the WC3 version of the Demon Hunter above all else.

[Deleted]

Well , the Lich idea is okayish i think ,one plate healer or caster dps would be nice.

The Mage and Druid ideas are a no .

The hunter idea is pretty much the combat rogue , would be better to change combat a bit instead of giving this to hunters.
Rogues shamans and Warriors are a "meh" , not neccesary imo.

The warlock idea is okayish again . Would make sense and I could see that happening.

But , in my opinion , Paladins should get a "unholy"/"Bloodknight"/ generally "dark" dps spec. (Either that or give retribution a little more love.)
The pala spec could be a caster dps spec , using plate int gear. With a first look , its kinda stupid , but Blood Knights were bending the power of the light to their will , so giving some thought to a more "evilish" spec is compatible with the lore.

Also the paladin idea could work with priests , a holy based dps spec could happen . Something like an exorcist or something.

[Teriz]

Wait wait wait wait. I just realized you have a Demon Hunter hero class thread linked in your sig. Oh this is fun. You basically debunk every argument against a Demon Hunter class that you yourself have brought in any thread.

If you want to discuss that, put it in the DH thread. Don't derail this discussion with your butthurt from the other thread.