How does "Socialized Healthcare" Compare to "Privatized Healthcare"?

[Wildtree]

There has been statistical work done on this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...%29_per_capita

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_H...health_systems

If you look at cost of healthcare it should always be put in perspective with quality.

There is some critisicim about the results from certain American right wing sources. Altought the arguement that the results of the rather low quality in the case of the US are biased as unusually high homicide and car accident rates are not taken into consideration. Also that shorter life expectancy caused by obesity is not adjusted to the number either. Of the first two, thats just rubbish. And of the final arguement, thats just silly. The achievement of keeping obese people alive into their 60's when they should be dead by their 40's is no achievement at all. It's a failure of preventive medicine that would keep obesity levels lower allowing people to live longer.

Start with providing better food varieties too.
And I don't know how healthy the healthy food actually even is...

Like, I bought apples a while ago. They are in a bowl at the kitchen counter. One of them tumbled off there. Behind into the corner, behind another tray with mixed gimmicks. I found it a few days ago. It was laying there for over 3 weeks. Looked just as shiny and sturdy as when I bought it the same day. Not normal, no one can tell me that... Same goes with milk.. From Europe I am used to milk being a dairy product, literally... Gotta consume it fast, it spoils quick. A day or two, and it turns sour on you.. Not my milk here. I'm a milkaholic really. I drink that stuff as if it goes out of style. Sometimes I forget to put the container back in the fridge, one would think it's ruined now.... No way.. It won't spoil, unless it's date stamp is about to expire altogether.
In the fridge? No problem to have the same gallon standing around for almost 2 weeks.

[Tradewind]

Hence the need for the booze, see? Not as stupid as I appear.

Would be like jacking off into an old leather boot.

[Deleted]

Would be like jacking off into an old leather boot.

Funny you should mention that, "someone" did that to a Sergeants boots I know.

[Komati]

Privatized healthcare is profitt driven.
Socialized healthcare is driven by governments wanting to keep the populace healthy.

[Tradewind]

Funny you should mention that, "someone" did that to a Sergeants boots I know.

granddad was a sgt major and my great uncle a radio man...judging by the shit they've pulled on their kids and grandkids...I wouldn't be surprised.

[Laize]

The US pays a metric ton in healthcare costs currently.

The ACA, when fully implemented, will bring those down dramatically despite what people leaning far further right than myself will regurgitate.

I'm a big fan of privatized everything as long as they're not granted oligopolies by the government.

Had insurance companies any meaningful areas to compete with each other in, I'm sure we'd see much lower premiums and costs to the patient. But they don't, so we don't.

[Deleted]

In hungary, not sure about ER, but prescriptions, doctor visits, blood work, Xray and Physical Therapy is free.

[Deleted]

There are multiple factors affecting this.

Socialised is probably better for prevention, since you don't really incur any costs people will visit the doctor if needed catch something before it becomes an expensive problem, if you have to pay every time you will wait and it will more likely require major treatment than the preventative care which will incur a greater cost.

Privatised the cost is fixed to that of who it is, so people may be paying more or less than they would otherwise have to with social healthcare. So there are winner's for both, however frequency comes into the effect as well since with socialised care it is significantly better since premiums very rarely changed based on how often you visit, something that I imagine will happen with private

Access is where privatised comes out best, if you can pay you are seen faster, but someone else can always knock you down the list.

For America its a case of pay for private or have poor/no treatment. Europe is pay a % and everyone has at least a basic standard, you can always pay for private (which is relatively cheap to get people to get it, since otherwise they can cope without it) You can also decide if you want to claim. For example my brother tore his ACL,he could of claimed on his insurance or wait two weeks and get on NHS, since he has already left it for a few weeks since he believes he tore it he went NHS and saved himself money.

[Projali]

Let's also get into the fact the the US has by far too many specialists than general practioners. Highly specialized=!better. If you incentivize radiology with 500k+ starting salaries it's no wonder everyone is flocking to the high salaried specialties like anesthesiology and dermatology rather than actually treating patients in primary care. Then we can delve into how medical school costs an absurd amount of money, in both lost wages and actual cost. Oh yes we can go down the rabbit hole if you want

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/1...-doctors-gone/

A large increase in demand resulting from an aging population and a supposed increase in millions of covered under the AHA. Medicare determines reimbursement rates that the insurance companies then set their policies to be "competitive" with. Those reimbursement rates also tend to have more input from specialists than the likes of FPs, psych and peds. I could see an argument based on residency and fellowship lengths but it's not a reimbursement-for-health system.

Just to emphasize the absurd cost of medical training in the US; If the only allopathic school in my state (many state schools highly favor in-state residents for admissions) accepts me this upcoming cycle for admission, I'll be paying around $40,000 per year in tuition alone (books/fees another $2000 or so) plus living expenses, all the while accruing ~6-8% interest per year (you can't defer Staffords anymore, THANKS OBAMA :P). I'm lucky in that I got my bachelor degree debt free so I won't be like my friends who have an additional 20-30k accruing interest right now. After I finish my MS4 and start residency, I will have something to the tune of $250k debt with interest while earning around minimum wage for the hours you put in. Assuming I match family medicine for residency, that's 3 years of internship/residency before I can do board certs. I can enjoy paying back ~$320k post-residency on a take-home pay of $60-70k (highly variable based on state taxes, CoL, family, etc). All of a sudden the specialties with 2-3x the salary become much more attractive. However, you still have to have the desire to do that specialty and the STEP scores to even be competitive for matching. It's not all dollars, despite what some people may think.

Medical schools turn away qualified candidates every year due to availability. US Residency is even more restrictive (US students who aren't total red flags will match, if you go foreign or Caribbean you better be scoring really high). More osteopathic schools are opening and the curriculum these days is essentially the same so that's an improvement, at least.

This could be its own thread, tbh. Maybe not on MMO-champ though, haha.

The US is an excellent example of how outliers can skew the average.

That's why the median tends to a better statistical metric.

[Zhangfei]

I've been treated in the UK and USA, and the UK is just so much better. I've never seen a solid, good argument for making healthcare a profit issue.

[Elegiac]

I've been treated in the UK and USA, and the UK is just so much better. I've never seen a solid, good argument for making healthcare a profit issue.

Because SOCIALISM.

[Zhangfei]

because socialism.

all the high fives!!!!!!

[Tradewind]

all the high fives!!!!!!

socialist high fives...gotta give them to everyone brah.

[Laize]

Because SOCIALISM.

Not so. The best argument comes from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to foist your problems on someone else.

[Masark]

Not so. The best argument comes from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to foist your problems on someone else.

Or from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to determine one's worthiness to receive medicare care based upon one's current monetary worth or ability to obtain credit.

[Zhangfei]

Not so. The best argument comes from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to foist your problems on someone else.

I disagree, because that kind of thinking goes against reality. Not everything that happens is within our control, and health is absolutely one of those things; you're not "foisting a problem on someone else," you're being aware that problems exist and society should work together to quell or minimise them.

[Elegiac]

Not so. The best argument comes from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to foist your problems on someone else.

Considering that's a really shit argument as regards healthcare, it speaks to the quality of the lesser arguments.

[Tradewind]

Not so. The best argument comes from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to foist your problems on someone else.

Where we just go back to the concept of health insurance as a whole. Unless these same people believe the premiums they pay into it are reserved for only their own personal use when they get sick.

[Laize]

Or from the ethical standpoint of whether or not it's right to determine one's worthiness to receive medicare care based upon one's current monetary worth or ability to obtain credit.

No one is arguing against anyone's right to access medical care. I'm asking whether or not it's right to foist that bill on someone else. Specifically someone who didn't sign up to finance your poor lifestyle choices in many cases.

[Elegiac]

No one is arguing against anyone's right to access medical care. I'm asking whether or not it's right to foist that bill on someone else. Specifically someone who didn't sign up to finance your poor lifestyle choices in many cases.

So you don't believe in insurance either apparently. Just like apparently the only reason people would ever need medical care is "poor lifestyle choices".