It's not Nostalgia.

[Tomana]

It really wasn't that demanding. You had to be responsible, sure. You had to listen to orders, sure. You had to be social, sure. The mechanics were easy to understand. A lot of them in MC was just decursing or moving. Thats the problem. People actually consider that demanding.

It's not just that. You had to spend insane amounts of time farming, which was a royal pain in the ass especially if you were a healer, since back than you were unable to kill one mob. Overall, the time you spent farming vs the time you spent actually raiding was huge. Rotations were non-existent etc... That's the problem: that "effort" was not "effort", but "time spent". Only with AQ and Naxx this began to change.

For the record, in Vanilla I was in High School. Got decent grades. Had a steady girlfriend. Had many friends. Was a boy scout. Was on the wrestling team. When to city/school events. Went to parties. Was in an engineering pre-college course. Was in the ROTC. Sorry, I don't buy this "people have lives!!!!!!!" BS. When WoW came out, I certainly had a very full life. I somehow managed to always have Symbols of Kings/Divinity. I always was fully repaired. I was always at the raid I signed up for 15 minutes early. I was always polite, and always listened.

Yeah, High School is soooooo hard... oh wait no it's stupidly easy. My only regret is being born several years too early, there were no easy Internet back then

[Seefer]

It's not just that. You had to spend insane amounts of time farming, which was a royal pain in the ass especially if you were a healer, since back than you were unable to kill one mob. Overall, the time you spent farming vs the time you spent actually raiding was huge. Rotations were non-existent etc... That's the problem: that "effort" was not "effort", but "time spent". Only with AQ and Naxx this began to change.


Yeah, High School is soooooo hard... oh wait no it's stupidly easy. My only regret is being born several years too early, there were no easy Internet back then

You completely missed his point, but that doesn't surprise me, honestly people sit here and say that we the ones who want it back the old way are the nasty ones but in all honesty I find the more virulent ones the ones defending the current system.

[Syran]

Questing:
Old = Ran all over looking for somewhere to pick something up to keep progressing in zone. Quests send you in 4-5 different hubs at one time with no clear direction
New = Linear paths that tell a story. Clear directions only few hubs so you don't get lost.

New will never be worse than old because if it was no one would keep playing/buying it

Old: sometimes tiresome quests, had to read the text and figure out what the NPC actually wanted, lots of travelling around the world, usually shitty rewards, GROUP QUESTS, class quests, mount quests, skill quests, class-item quests

New: linear, on-rails, story-driven quest paths which offer no deviation, almost no personal choices of what to complete and what to skip, good rewards, extremely easy, no MMO component to questing whatsoever

[Tomana]

You completely missed his point, but that doesn't surprise me, honestly people sit here and say that we the ones who want it back the old way are the nasty ones but in all honesty I find the more virulent ones the ones defending the current system.

Sure, after the 145623th thread on how vanilla was the "best time evah", what do you expect? That you will be explained the topic for the 145624th time from scratch?

[Seefer]

Sure, after the 145623th thread on how vanilla was the "best time evah", what do you expect? That you will be explained the topic for the 145624th time from scratch?

Actually my best time was in BC *shrug* I enjoyed Vanilla but BC was better for me.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

It's not just that. You had to spend insane amounts of time farming, which was a royal pain in the ass especially if you were a healer, since back than you were unable to kill one mob. Overall, the time you spent farming vs the time you spent actually raiding was huge. Rotations were non-existent etc... That's the problem: that "effort" was not "effort", but "time spent". Only with AQ and Naxx this began to change.


Yeah, High School is soooooo hard... oh wait no it's stupidly easy. My only regret is being born several years too early, there were no easy Internet back then

The internet wasn't huge when I was in either. Wikipedia was just being developed when I was a senior. I was in AP classes, not that is was very very HARD, but it was time consuming. You still had to attend classes. You still had to fill out busy work etc. I still had college courses. I still had many after school activities via Engineering class. My point was, that even with limited amounts of time, I still managed to be social and raid, even though it was SOOOOO "demanding" and "crushing."

I was a Palading. So I buffed/healed. I know the sentiment. It makes sense that a healer would be good at sustain and not damage. We just farmed in groups. Of course in the Guild there were cliques. People would often just say things like "who wants to go farm for XXX mats." Warlocks stayed in groups for Soul farming. (I believe multiple locks could earn a shard off a single mob) etc etc etc.

[Tomana]

Actually my best time was in BC *shrug* I enjoyed Vanilla but BC was better for me.

I'm not saying you said it, but the whining on this forum is usually along those lines. Hell, some people even say that BC was the start of Blizzard "katering 2 teh CaSuAlZ!!!" as opposed to vanilla.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Sure, after the 145623th thread on how vanilla was the "best time evah", what do you expect? That you will be explained the topic for the 145624th time from scratch?

That isn;t my point at all. The design philosophy was just better. Blizzard as a company has improved in many ways. Something like the continual change of soul shards is great! Something like having 3-4 flight paths in a small, flat zone like Westfall is RIDICULOUS.

[Tomana]

The internet wasn't huge when I was in either. Wikipedia was just being developed when I was a senior. I was in AP classes, not that is was very very HARD, but it was time consuming. You still had to attend classes. You still had to fill out busy work etc. I still had college courses. I still had many after school activities via Engineering class. My point was, that even with limited amounts of time, I still managed to be social and raid, even though it was SOOOOO "demanding" and "crushing."

Oh please, don't give me your "limited amounts of time", I was in high school too you know It was a walk in the park compared to some stuff that followed
Also, internet wasn't huge? I'm missing something here, but in 2004 it was already pretty OK, at least in major cities.

I was a Palading. So I buffed/healed. I know the sentiment. It makes sense that a healer would be good at sustain and not damage. We just farmed in groups. Of course in the Guild there were cliques. People would often just say things like "who wants to go farm for XXX mats."

Is this what is supposed to be a good time to spend? Rather than, I don't know, actually raid?

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 12:53 AM ----------

That isn;t my point at all. The design philosophy was just better. Blizzard as a company has improved in many ways. Something like the continual change of soul shards is great! Something like having 3-4 flight paths in a small, flat zone like Westfall is RIDICULOUS.

Then don't use them. What is the problem with having a lot of flight paths?

[Theendgamelv3]

Stopped here. Questing in this game has never been particularly obscure or difficult as far as what to do, and how to do it.

Stopped here cause Mankirk's wife says hi.

[Syran]

Is this what is supposed to be a good time to spend? Rather than, I don't know, actually raid?

Yes, it was a good time to spend. It was adapting, accepting your weaknesess, working with your guild as a team to achieve a goal. You know, stuff that defines a MMO experience.

[Tomana]

Yes, it was a good time to spend. It was adapting, accepting your weaknesess, working with your guild as a team to achieve a goal. You know, stuff that defines a MMO experience.

Depends by what you mean by a goal. If it was killing the boss, sure thing. If not, it's debatable.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Oh please, don't give me your "limited amounts of time", I was in high school too you know It was a walk in the park compared to some stuff that followed
Also, internet wasn't huge? I'm missing something here, but in 2004 it was already pretty OK, at least in major cities.


Is this what is supposed to be a good time to spend? Rather than, I don't know, actually raid?

---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 12:53 AM ----------



Then don't use them. What is the problem with having a lot of flight paths?

Well, As I explained, I had many other things to do other than the 8 hour time sink of JUST CLASSES. Still, I raided.

Yes, it was often a good time. Fun with friends. Kill Hordes. Immersion. Why has WoW lost its immersion? Because raiding has been boiled down to sitting in SW and hitting "queue" and thats it. Then you can afk and get your rep/loot/valor and have "fun." It was immersive because you had to plan ahead and prepare to actually do the raid.

Whats the problem with having 3 FP's in a small area? It takes away from the overall game. It trivializes leveling, and running and mounts and everything. Why is having 3 fps in westfall a good thing for the game?

[MoanaLisa]

or you can do exactly what your told to do

Anyone beside me see a problem with this sort of thing? The statement was in regard to talents.

It's just weird how autocratic and top-down people are.

[Theendgamelv3]

.......just that, LFR let's you ignore the mechanics of the raid, get gear, and claim you have done the content...........LFR is a cancer to WoW.

Have you ever been in a group that wiped to Tortos 6 times in LFR cause I have. I stayed due to the fact queue times are crazy and was hoping that enough of the bad people left so that hopefully so good players would come in. People were shocked the raid buff went that high. Obviously you CAN'T ignore some raid mechanics in LFR if you are wiping. Wipes happen in LFR and it is due to some part people not following the mechanics. I would LOVE to see a LFR group ignore all the adds in Horridon and breeze through him like it was nothing. This isn't DS LFR. A LFR Group can't stand in the lightning water on the first boss all day and just down him.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Have you ever been in a group that wiped to Tortos 6 times in LFR cause I have. I stayed due to the fact queue times are crazy and was hoping that enough of the bad people left so that hopefully so good players would come in. People were shocked the raid buff went that high. Obviously you CAN'T ignore some raid mechanics in LFR if you are wiping. Wipes happen in LFR and it is due to some part people not following the mechanics. I would LOVE to see a LFR group ignore all the adds in Horridon and breeze through him like it was nothing. This isn't DS LFR. A LFR Group can't stand in the lightning water on the first boss all day and just down him.

And guess which LFR raid has been my favorite? ToT. Most of the others you could ignore. When Terrace was current, you could ignore the shadow stacks on the second boss. No one kills adds on the last boss.. most people get hit my lightning storm on the first boss.

Not to mention how mnay NERF TOT AND GIMME MORE LOOTS FASTERERER PLAEZE! Threads that have been here.

[Tomana]

Well, As I explained, I had many other things to do other than the 8 hour time sink of JUST CLASSES. Still, I raided.

You had 40 hours of classes during the week? Color me doubtful.

Yes, it was often a good time. Fun with friends. Kill Hordes. Immersion. Why has WoW lost its immersion? Because raiding has been boiled down to sitting in SW and hitting "queue" and thats it. Then you can afk and get your rep/loot/valor and have "fun." It was immersive because you had to plan ahead and prepare to actually do the raid.

Sure thing, problem is, if you need as much time to spend outside of raid then actually raiding, the hours required get huge very quickly. Not many people beside students and people looking for a job can afford those.

Whats the problem with having 3 FP's in a small area? It takes away from the overall game. It trivializes leveling, and running and mounts and everything. Why is having 3 fps in westfall a good thing for the game?

And what is the problem with making leveling simple? What are you afraid of? Of more people leveling? Of the fact that those people will steal your gear in raids? No, because they may not be as good as you are? If anything, they will probably buy your stuff in AH

Understand that making a huge entry barrier right from the start on is bad. Things are supposed to ramp up gradually for a new players. Now granted, the current situation could use improvements, but each time I think of Mulgore on my very first toon, I shiver. This deterred a lot of people from the game, which is the opposite you want to do.

[Theendgamelv3]

And guess which LFR raid has been my favorite? ToT. Most of the others you could ignore. When Terrace was current, you could ignore the shadow stacks on the second boss. No one kills adds on the last boss.. most people get hit my lightning storm on the first boss.

Not to mention how mnay NERF TOT AND GIMME MORE LOOTS FASTERERER PLAEZE! Threads that have been here.

I remember wiping on Sha in LFR due to one reason, NOONE killed adds. Usually when I have done LFR, you have 2-3 people killing adds and if I see more than 3 up I will start trying to kill them and have noticed sometimes people yell out "ADDS!". The fact of the matter is there have been 3 raiding tiers that have had LFR. DS was a joke, tier 14 got better and now ToT is probably the best LFR in terms of difficulty. I am not saying that LFR is hard or anything, it isn't, but it is leap years beyond what DS ever was. Seefer seems to disagree and says it is a cancer and you can ignore everything in LFR go afk and win. You can't do that in ToT. You can't do that in some fights in Tier 14. In DS you could do that in most of the fights. LFR has gotten better and better and ToT LFR difficulty is at a good place.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You had 40 hours of classes during the week? Color me doubtful.


Sure thing, problem is, if you need as much time to spend outside of raid then actually raiding, the hours required get huge very quickly. Not many people beside students and people looking for a job can afford those.


And what is the problem with making leveling simple? What are you afraid of? Of more people leveling? Of the fact that those people will steal your gear in raids? No, because they may not be as good as you are? If anything, they will probably buy your stuff in AH

Understand that making a huge entry barrier right from the start on is bad. Things are supposed to ramp up gradually for a new players. Now granted, the current situation could use improvements, but each time I think of Mulgore on my very first toon, I shiver. This deterred a lot of people from the game, which is the opposite you want to do.

Yes, I was at school from 7-230. Then I had Wrestling practice until 5. Then on some days a job, on some days friends, on some days engineering mandatory events. Some days I took my girlfriend to work. Weekends I had boy scout stuff, or wrestling if it was wrestling season. And I got good grades.

No, its because my leveling experience is changed because of the change ... for the sake of convenience. Leveling was always simple. It was just a little more complex than it is now. There weren;t flight paths everywhere, and elite mobs and group quests actually existed if you wanted to do them.

Why don't we want to deter people that can't make it out of mulgore? If they aren;t having fun, they aren't suited to MMO-RPGS. If they don't/can't get out, why should we cater to them? Why should we take away from all the people that did already enjoy that? Should every game sell out to go where the money goes?

So again, why does taking out elite mobs and quests make a good game? Why does having 3 fps in small flat westfall make a better game?

---------- Post added 2013-04-28 at 07:52 PM ----------

I remember wiping on Sha in LFR due to one reason, NOONE killed adds. Usually when I have done LFR, you have 2-3 people killing adds and if I see more than 3 up I will start trying to kill them and have noticed sometimes people yell out "ADDS!". The fact of the matter is there have been 3 raiding tiers that have had LFR. DS was a joke, tier 14 got better and now ToT is probably the best LFR in terms of difficulty. I am not saying that LFR is hard or anything, it isn't, but it is leap years beyond what DS ever was. Seefer seems to disagree and says it is a cancer and you can ignore everything in LFR go afk and win. You can't do that in ToT. You can't do that in some fights in Tier 14. In DS you could do that in most of the fights. LFR has gotten better and better and ToT LFR difficulty is at a good place.

hey I won't disagree. Especially about ToT. The fact is, I just had an LFR run. We had one guy kill adds, me. The healers could heal through the damage. I use grib for raid frames, when lightning storm on the first boss hit, most people got hit. Tsulong? I was at 25 stacks most of the time. Self healing and twilight ward helped em to pretty much ignore the pitiful damage it caused. The first boss was not moved at all. This is the kind of thing that happened even upon release half the time.

I really just remember Blizzzard calling LFR a stepping stone, and way for casual players to ease into raiding. What its really become is just the end for many people.

[Deleted]

Definition of nostalgia according to Wiktionary:

1. A longing for home or familiar surroundings; homesickness.
2. A bittersweet yearning for the things of the past.
3. Reminiscence of the speaker's childhood or younger years.

It is nostalgia.

It is not nostalgia.
It is evolution, and evolution is not always good.
Mmos stand for massive multiplayer (rp game), without what is depicted in the screenshots Wow is no longer an rp game nor a multiplayer game in the sense that there is no community or need for one