I don't see how we can avoid getting a new class in the next expansion.

[Teriz]

They already broked their rule of providing one thing or another one, not both... They could easely broked the rule again, by not proving any...

Again, not going to happen. Without a new race or class, the new expansion would appear to be lackluster compared to previous expansions. Especially the previous one.

Lets imagine that instead of a new race or a new class they decide to provide us with the new race models instead and a new 4th spec (which GC already confirmed that is very unlikely to happen).

We know that new race models are coming. 4th spec has been pretty much squashed from both GC and the Dev team. So we know that's not coming next expansion, if ever.

The problem of speculation is that its the same as playing the loto, sometimes you won, someothers, most of them, you lose. You just never know.

True, but you can speculate based on previous knowledge and facts, and create much more accurate predictions based on that knowledge and facts. For example, me predicting a Monk class before MoP was announced 2 years ago.

Your logic its valid, but anyway the new race models don't really fit in the design concept of providing one thing or another you used with the oppening of this thread. Its a revamp, does that qualify as something new??

No, which is why I'm saying that they need a new class to make the next expansion worthwhile. Revamped races alone isn't enough.

[Baine]

The current races remodel takes the art team a lot of time and I don't believe they will create, on top of that, 2 more races. And I don't see a new class, right away. So I would not be surprised to see no race/class addition.

[Tuor]

Again, not going to happen. Without a new race or class, the new expansion would appear to be lackluster compared to previous expansions. Especially the previous one.

They can't keep adding new classes or races ad-eternum...

For me something diferent from a class or a race would be better, the fact is there is a limit for everithing .

We know that new race models are coming. 4th spec has been pretty much squashed from both GC and the Dev team. So we know that's not coming next expansion, if ever.

True.

True, but you can speculate based on previous knowledge and facts, and create much more accurate predictions based on that knowledge and facts. For example, me predicting a Monk class before MoP was announced 2 years ago.

Like you, many others, including me, speculated about monks... Have you noticed that Blizzard might had just decided to apeal the majority?

Blizzard already proved that can do things in a diferent way... Before MoP was announced (or spoiled) everyone was sayed that we would have a new class and not a new race, the fact was that we got both... And no one even expected Pandas... All of this to say that whille previous behavior is in fact indicative of the future, their previous behaviour also says that they like (they have to) to do different things to avoid spoilers...

[mistahwilshire]

Or we could just not get any new races or classes because we don't need them.

[Poochy]

They can't just add neither. Race models is what is being worked on, not a new race. 4th specs aren't happening, tri specs aren't happening, at least not any time soon. We're not getting a 3rd profession slot (GC says at least not in the sense everybody thinks). Talent trees aren't getting overhauled, Blizz likes them. Dance studio isn't on any high priority, no idea about proving grounds or that path of the titans, both might not be happening any time soon or at least aren't top priority.

We're not getting split up cata style zones, that didn't work well. Vash'jir wasn't very popular. There probably ain't any "other side of Azeroth" but I won't hold to that. Revamps of classes or zones wasn't very popular, the emerald dream was taken care of in Stormrage, at least for the time being.

DHs and high elves are pretty well requested, blood elves and Draenei could go neutral and give belves a blue eyed option and Helves/belves make up and Alleria returns and conflicts with sylvanas. Illidan is being redeemed to. The two seem to make sense to happen.

[Teriz]

The current races remodel takes the art team a lot of time and I don't believe they will create, on top of that, 2 more races. And I don't see a new class, right away. So I would not be surprised to see no race/class addition.

I agree with you. A new class does seem rushed after we just got Monks. However, Blizzard has to do something to sell the next expansion. New classes or New races has become expected with each new expansion. I just don't see them doing neither one.

[DeadmanWalking]

I really don't understand why anyone would not want more classes or races in the game. If it brings in one more person or gives one more person something they enjoy then its all worth it since the more the better. Having people doing something they like is better than not having them at all. They could have 15 classes for all I care, if I don't like them I won't play them.

[Teriz]

They can't keep adding new classes or races ad-eternum...

For me something diferent from a class or a race would be better, the fact is there is a limit for everithing .

I agree with that, so Blizzard is going to have to find new ways to do things. However in the meantime, I think 12 classes wouldn't be too many classes for a MMORPG.

Like you, many others, including me, speculated about monks... Have you noticed that Blizzard might had just decided to apeal the majority?

You did?? Where and when?

Blizzard already proved that can do things in a diferent way... Before MoP was announced (or spoiled) everyone was sayed that we would have a new class and not a new race, the fact was that we got both... And no one even expected Pandas... All of this to say that whille previous behavior is in fact indicative of the future, their previous behaviour also says that they like (they have to) to do different things to avoid spoilers...

Fair point. I guess we'll see in 5 months at Blizzcon.

[DeadmanWalking]

They could also add existing classes to more races, like they did with tauren Paladin and Dwarf Shaman.

[Wildmoon]

I would welcome a new class. Balance is no concern for me anymore because since I have been playing WoW since late Vanilla, there's no point in WoW that it is balanced. I concluded that it will never be so let a new class comes.

[Tuor]

However in the meantime, I think 12 classes wouldn't be too many classes for a MMORPG.

12 classes would be cool, i would vote for another Mail agility one.

You did?? Where and when?

On the oficial EU forums, before MoP was announced.

I don't want to spoil any of my characters thought .

[blackblade]

So now that 4th spec has been slapped down by Blizzard, and the new race candidates predicted by others look extremely lackluster, it appears more than ever that a new class is on the way.

I don't think it's fair to say they've been "slapped down".

They simply said that there are many classes who have enough problems distinguishing between their current specs, and there's also risk of adding extra bloat to the hybrids, and other classes that have a lot of bloat (like hunters, for example).

It's possible that they come up with a solution to these problems and still have resources for a 4th spec. Granted, though, it's unlikely.

Some classes already have pieces that could be brought into a new spec, Monks have a small arsenal of ranged attacks, Shamans have one-or-two tanking abilities, warlocks have dark apotheosis, and so on. So it isn't an impossibility that some classes get an overhaul to make their specs more distinct, while others get a new spec instead.

[DeadmanWalking]

4 specs were not slapped down, this stupid image passed around suggesting 4 specs for all classes was slapped down. They said if they do 4 specs they would most likely do 1 class at a time rather than a complete roll out.

People have to get over this ideal that blizzard moves in patterns when it comes to expansions because they don't. They do what ever they feel works at the time.
There have been expansions where we got 2 new races, a heroic class, 2 new races and several old races got new classes, then they added a new race and a new class. The only real pattern they have is that they have no pattern.

[Teriz]

4 specs were not slapped down, this stupid image passed around suggesting 4 specs for all classes was slapped down. They said if they do 4 specs they would most likely do 1 class at a time rather than a complete roll out.

People have to get over this ideal that blizzard moves in patterns when it comes to expansions because they don't. They do what ever they feel works at the time.
There have been expansions where we got 2 new races, a heroic class, 2 new races and several old races got new classes, then they added a new race and a new class. The only real pattern they have is that they have no pattern.

Well, Blizzard does move in patterns. They are subtle, but they are there.

Classes and races:
BC: 2 new races.
WotLK: New class
Cataclysm: 2 new races
MoP: neutral race New class

Logical conclusion: Blizzard brings in a new race or new class every expansion

Loot table fills:
Cloth: 3 classes
Plate: 3 classes
Leather: 3 classes
Mail: 2 classes

Logical conclusion: Next class will wear mail armor


Class additions:

-All classes are derived from WC3 heroes
-Each class addition comes from heroes where no abilities were ingame at the time (DKs and Monks)
-Each class addition has next to no class overlap with existing classes.
-Each class addition has filled up gaps within loot tables.

Logical conclusion: Next class will be derived from WC3 heroes. Heroes from WC3 that have little to no ability representation in WoW are prime candidates for class inclusion. Next class needs to be able to fill gaps within loot tables for optimal inclusion.

And on and on and on.

There's a reason we're almost assured of the next expansion being announced at Blizzcon. The pattern of Blizzard's behavior tells us that that will be the case.

[Rhamses]

Since we're not getting 4th specs, I guess its going to be a new class....

[Stormdash]

They could also add existing classes to more races, like they did with tauren Paladin and Dwarf Shaman.

Exactly. Least development cost, but already a known crowd-pleaser, loud lore complaints notwithstanding (who probably all eventually turned around and made a Troll druid anyway). Although with at most 2 classes blocked per race at this point, if they do it I figure they wouldn't split hairs, they'd just go ahead and swing the door all the way open.

As for the new class question, just depends on the expansion -- if its a BL themed expansion, it's Demon Hunter. I'm sorry, there's just not much of a credible argument for another. The argument of ____ over Demon Hunter for a BL expansion is about as credible as the argument for ____ over DK for Wrath.

[Teriz]

Exactly. Least development cost, but already a known crowd-pleaser, loud lore complaints notwithstanding (who probably all eventually turned around and made a Troll druid anyway). Although with at most 2 classes blocked per race at this point, if they do it I figure they wouldn't split hairs, they'd just go ahead and swing the door all the way open.

As for the new class question, just depends on the expansion -- if its a BL themed expansion, it's Demon Hunter. I'm sorry, there's just not much of a credible argument for another. The argument of ____ over Demon Hunter for a BL expansion is about as credible as the argument for ____ over DK for Wrath.

People who say this really don't understand how Blizzard structures their classes. You're not going to see a Demon Hunter class for numerous reasons, no matter what the expansion is.

Just think about this for a moment; When Death Knights were introduced, ALL of its core abilities from WC3 weren't already being used by other classes, its name didn't collide with an existing class, its armor type was readily available, its lore and flavor didn't conflict with basic game structure, its archetype was broad and could be applied in a variety of specs, Arthas wasn't already killed by players in an earlier raid, etc. etc. etc.

So yeah, you could make an argument for Death Knights being an incoming class. You can't make a similar argument for Demon Hunters though.

[Wildmoon]

People who say this really don't understand how Blizzard structures their classes. You're not going to see a Demon Hunter class for numerous reasons, no matter what the expansion is.

Just think about this for a moment; When Death Knights were introduced, ALL of its core abilities from WC3 weren't already being used by other classes, its name didn't collide with an existing class, its armor type was readily available, its lore and flavor didn't conflict with basic game structure, its archetype was broad and could be applied in a variety of specs, Arthas wasn't already killed by players in an earlier raid, etc. etc. etc.

So yeah, you could make an argument for Death Knights being an incoming class. You can't make a similar argument for Demon Hunters though.

Don't be so sure about your prediction. By your pattern MoP does not really fit into it to. Logical set of new things should be 1 new class. Yet we got 1 neutral race and 1 class. Next xpac could even comes with only 1 new neutral race with no new class. Dh is similar to warlock but they are not exactly the same. The idea of DH could be greatly expanded upon.

[Stormdash]

People who say this really don't understand how Blizzard structures their classes. You're not going to see a Demon Hunter class for numerous reasons, no matter what the expansion is.

Just think about this for a moment; When Death Knights were introduced, ALL of its core abilities from WC3 weren't already being used by other classes, its name didn't collide with an existing class, its armor type was readily available, its lore and flavor didn't conflict with basic game structure, its archetype was broad and could be applied in a variety of specs, Arthas wasn't already killed by players in an earlier raid, etc. etc. etc.

I think this is a list of concerns compiled mostly to make it sound like there are a lot of concerns. I'm not hearing any obstacles, I'm hearing rationalizations.

-- Who cares if the name overlaps? I mean, really? Is there a concern that a demonstrable demographic of idiots and illiterates is going to get confused, roll the wrong class, and not realize their mistake until they have levelled up and invested new bags and such?

-- Core abilities existing elsewhere. Is there some actual blue expressing this as a genuine developer concern, or even some independent reason to think this is a major development obstacle? Ability overlap will happen in every MMO, happens in WoW already in fact, certainly the utility of some abilities if not their actual name. I certainly don't see this as a concern in other MMOs, current or retired, either. Not like SWTOR has one force-user class, for instance. And COH/COV lasted, what, 8 or 9 years with archetypes that shared powersets with only minor differences.

-- whatever armor type for Demon Hunters is already readily available, unless you are expecting them to require STR mail or leather or AGI cloth or something.

-- Demon Hunters can pretty easily slide into a Melee/Range/Tank set-up.

-- again, who cares? Illidan isn't the only demon hunter ever, the game seems positively lousy with them that could be instructors. Plus if you think the idea of retconning Illidan back to life is impossible... it's like it's your first day in scifi/fantasy/adventure.

It's as simple as having a structurally cohesive expansion concept and a sense of completeness. Lore, even story, serve that particular beam. And there is just nothing but wishful thinking behind the idea that they are going to have a Burning Legion expansion that adds a new class, that isn't Demon Hunters. Expansion with no new class, sure. Some other themed expansion with some other class, sure. Burning Legion themed expansion with some other class... no. Not gonna happen.

EDIT: I should just add, I'm not a particular advocate for Demon Hunters to be added. I'd prefer new race/class most, new races second, and new class third.

[DeadmanWalking]

Well, Blizzard does move in patterns. They are subtle, but they are there.

Classes and races:
BC: 2 new races.
WotLK: New class
Cataclysm: 2 new races
MoP: neutral race New class

Logical conclusion: Blizzard brings in a new race or new class every expansion

Loot table fills:
Cloth: 3 classes
Plate: 3 classes
Leather: 3 classes
Mail: 2 classes

Logical conclusion: Next class will wear mail armor


Class additions:

-All classes are derived from WC3 heroes
-Each class addition comes from heroes where no abilities were ingame at the time (DKs and Monks)
-Each class addition has next to no class overlap with existing classes.
-Each class addition has filled up gaps within loot tables.

Logical conclusion: Next class will be derived from WC3 heroes. Heroes from WC3 that have little to no ability representation in WoW are prime candidates for class inclusion. Next class needs to be able to fill gaps within loot tables for optimal inclusion.

And on and on and on.

There's a reason we're almost assured of the next expansion being announced at Blizzcon. The pattern of Blizzard's behavior tells us that that will be the case.

Announcing the expansion at blizzcon is not a pattern because not every blizzcon had an expansion release, one had 'Geek Is' instead and no one wants to redo that again. Announcing the expansion at blizzcon is just common business sense that you announce your next expansion at your big even when you are pumping out content so fast that it cant wait another 18 months.

While it is very likely that the next class will be mail it is not a done deal because the only thing Bliz has done is gaurantee that they do what they want when they want, we are just as likely to get a 3rd plate wearer as we are a 2nd gun wielder and almost as likely to have Bliz say, "Screw it, this guy wears cloth and people are just going to have to deal with a 4th cloth wearer."

You are also forgetting that in cataclysm they didn't just release new classes they released new jobs for old classes which totally went against your pattern theory. Do they release something new? Yes, they always release something new but there is no pattern to their releases.

2 races
1 hero class
2 races + new classes for old races
new race + new class
=No discernable pattern beyond 'we are getting new stuff'

To suggest there is a pattern is like me guessing I will live to be exactly 120 years old because I'm not dead yet and other people older than me are not dead yet so the logical conclusion is exactly 120 years old. 5% chance of immortality.