4th raid difficulty, Easy Mode, should it happen?

[Maelstrom51]

I actually started raiding during ICC myself. I started out doing 10 man pugs and short 25 man pugs, and by the middle-end of the tier I ended up with 8/12H through pugs, joined a semi-serious guild and ended up clearing everything besides H Lich King.

I am not sure what this has to do with anything though, since good players will always have something fun to do.

The real concern right now is that bad players are left in the cold. They have LFR, but there's no sense of progression, no community, no social interaction.
Its just a grind, and there is no reason for them to keep playing.

So you have no desire to run normal mode yet complain that you cant?

He has desire to, he just knows its pointless to try because he isn't good enough. It would be like an average person trying to participate in the olypics.

[Deleted]

I'm not good enough to raid these 10 mans. I know this, so I don't. There was a time when I could do 10 mans though. My guild collapsed in Cataclysm in the first raiding tier. But LFR doesn't cut it for me, so I run 5 mans and scenarios to cap valor. Woo.

That is very bad thinking. You should really try. I seriously doubt if you ever raided in organized content that now you are just to bad to raid any.

[thigan]

I lol at people saying, you wanna pug, transfer. TBH if you are going to pay, make it worth, find a guild and transfer for a guild, not for a trade channel.

[Ferocity]

He likes to be delusional. Pretty sure he didn't do well in Ulduar either but that was fairly brief so he may of forgotten the time it was out before ToC launched.

No offense but if you cannot get into a pug on a capped server like Illidan that means you need to improve. Might I suggest spending this time on forums learning instead of crying.

Pugs were always working like this - people want overgeared characters who already done full instance clear before. At least in earlier expansions (well, not counting t11 and t12) you could start make pug yourself if there was need - usually there was no need if you had some friends, as various alts' runs were prospering (which were doing close to full normal clears bar maybe last boss or 2, pugs were doing like half of that).

And sry, but now pugs doing more than 1/12 ToT is a myth on most servers, pugging is pretty much dead right now.

[Ragashii]

So you have no desire to run normal mode yet complain that you cant?

I have no desire to hold any guild back when the average guild has only killed the first 2 bosses if that's what you're asking.

[thigan]

Id say those "pixels" are a big motivation for why I aimed for certain things.

Of course, for you. I'm mostly talking about the whole population, many people don't care enough to make the effort

[Calaba]

Pretty sure this may be a troll thread, but i'm going to reply anyways. Check your server bud many servers are currently pugging heroic ToT content at least 3/13 bosses.

Calling some pretty obvious BS on this. Perhaps if they're just PUGing the last guy or something because their tank didnt show up, but otherwise no. Again you only need to check the stats pages - less than 5% of guilds have got that far, and yet you're claiming it's PUG content? Yeh, right. It's only PUG content if the RNG gods have given you good drops and you've got the achive already.

[Deleted]

And sry, but now pugs doing more than 1/12 ToT is a myth on most servers, pugging is pretty much dead right now.

Two reasons. Harder normal raids and LFR = PuG.

[Deleted]

I actually started raiding during ICC myself. I started out doing 10 man pugs and short 25 man pugs, and by the middle-end of the tier I ended up with 8/12H through pugs, joined a semi-serious guild and ended up clearing everything besides H Lich King.

I am not sure what this has to do with anything though, since good players will always have something fun to do.

The real concern right now is that bad players are left in the cold. They have LFR, but there's no sense of progression, no community, no social interaction.
Its just a grind, and there is no reason for them to keep playing.

Blizzard believed into the delusion and bad generalization that casuals really are these bads that will stick around if they get their shiny gear and sense of progression.
So they added the dailies for the progression and LFR takes care of the epics.All this at literally-doable-by-a-9-year-old-level.
They toke their costumers for idiots and unfortunately it's feedback time.

[thigan]

Of course it's not mine. All my gear comes from heroics silly.


Not sure maybe all the damage being set from near fatal to slight tickle levels?

I didn't asked about number of damage or healing requirements but mechanics, because his argument is easy mode = normals nerfed. But LFR is indeed normals nerfed

[anaxie]

Pugs were always working like this - people want overgeared characters who already done full instance clear before. At least in earlier expansions (well, not counting t11 and t12) you could start make pug yourself if there was need - usually there was no need if you had some friends, as various alts' runs were prospering (which were doing close to full normal clears bar maybe last boss or 2, pugs were doing like half of that).

And sry, but now pugs doing more than 1/12 ToT is a myth on most servers, pugging is pretty much dead right now.

I hope you understand pugging which a huge amount of players mostly did on alts is in this state because of LFR. They can afk <Hell I've done it why not?> Get gear or sha crystals or pets to sell with minimal effort. Meanwhile pugging can be either a largely frustrating blood curdling experience or quite fun if you gather a competent group.

Primarily though to culprit is LFR for pug absence. Sorry.

[Dreknar20]

He has desire to, he just knows its pointless to try because he isn't good enough. It would be like an average person trying to participate in the olypics.

If he cared enough to raid normal mode then he would strive to be good enough to

[anaxie]

I didn't asked about number of damage or healing requirements but mechanics, because his argument is easy mode = normals nerfed. But LFR is indeed normals nerfed

But that is relevent there are no mechanics in LFR because with everything set to tickle damage you can LITERALLY ignore EVERYTHING.

Though I do quite enjoy the trivial design. It allows me to que up as a healer and just dps the boss and noone knows the difference.

[Osmeric]

I didn't asked about number of damage or healing requirements but mechanics, because his argument is easy mode = normals nerfed. But LFR is indeed normals nerfed

There are different degrees of nerf. There is a gaping chasm between LFR and normal mode.

[espoire]

We hit the LFRs, killed the first boss a few times on normal, got some valor gear, then after a month tried again and practically facerolled the boss with better gear.

That's how they're trying to make it work. Accumulating gear makes you kill more bosses. LFR, previous tier, and farming the ones you can kill all contribute to this. They've tuned it extremely well, too. My rather casual raid group (5hr/week) has been getting one new kill every week like clockwork.

[Maelstrom51]

If he cared enough to raid normal mode then he would strive to be good enough to

I'm not sure you understand this, but just as some people are not capable of being an olympic athlete, some people are not good enough to do raid normal modes, no matter how much they try.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure you understand this, but just as some people are not capable of being an olympic athlete, some people are not good enough to do raid normal modes, no matter how much they try.

But the man said he raided before with success. Yes, it's harder now but it's not olympic hard.

[Maelstrom51]

That's how they're trying to make it work. Accumulating gear makes you kill more bosses. LFR, previous tier, and farming the ones you can kill all contribute to this. They've tuned it extremely well, too. My rather casual raid group (5hr/week) has been getting one new kill every week like clockwork.

And your group is much, much better than the average raider.
If you take into account all the people who have already quit raiding due to the difficulty, the average group is 2/12N.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure you understand this, but just as some people are not capable of being an olympic athlete, some people are not good enough to do raid normal modes, no matter how much they try.

I'm not one to diss comparisons a lot but come on...an olympic athlete to someone doing normal raids?

[Dreknar20]

some people are not good enough to do raid normal modes, no matter how much they try.

find that hard to believe, there is always room to improve