4th raid difficulty, Easy Mode, should it happen?

[Glorious Leader]

Why do you assume that we aren't on heroics?
As I said earlier in this thread, I personally don't have a problem with the difficulty. The problem is that bad players have no engaging content, not me.

I guess I have a sense of empathy, which you may be lacking?

Not only empathy but you can see the forest for the trees. I'm 8/12 normal myself but we had to sit players this tier and it wasn't pleasant. most fo the people were tlaking about who would fit into this mold, in fact probably all of them won't be posting in this thread.

[melodramocracy]

Naxx 80, Ulduar, ToC, ICC, and Dragonsoul all saw upgrowths in population.

All the BC raids happened during population growths as well.

However none of those raids were completed by the majority of players. Raiding is not a game element that the majority of players participates in, so that isn't the answer.

[Luko]

Why do you assume that we aren't on heroics?
As I said earlier in this thread, I personally don't have a problem with the difficulty. The problem is that bad players have no engaging content, not me.

I guess I have a sense of empathy, which you may be lacking?

"Bad" players, as you so put it, have the same access to the game as anyone else. If they're simply admitting that its virtually impossible for them to continue and feel as though there's nothing else for them, they'd go play something else or find something else to do in the game. They wouldn't raise pitchforks and demand change in an otherwise working system, right?

[Deleted]

But I did provide explanations. Go back and read what I said earlier in the thread. Read that forum post to. It explains EXACTLY WHAT THEY TEND TO HAVE TROUBLE WITH and why ToT normal ToT is so hard.

Again you didn't refer me to any kind of post.What post ''earlier in the thread'' why should I go search for your arguments?
Say it in words.If you actually are so convinced that you are right why is so hard to write it down?
Again you're pointing me away.Just write it down.Do you not even know your own arguments?

[Calaba]

My last post for the night - i'll try to lay out the approx difficulty levels of normal mode raids:

Naxx10/25> TOGC > Kara > MC >BWL > AQ40 > ICC > Uld > TK/SSC > BT/MH > Cata raids > Panda Raids > Naxx 40 > SWP

(from easiest on the left to hardest on the right, in case you werent sure!)

The ONLY 2 raids that were harder than TOT WHEN THEY WERE CURRENT were Naxx40 and SWP. Both of which were intended to be hard-mode only dungeons. I'm sure some folks will claim they should be in some other order (whether or not ICC was harder than TK/SSC is debatable), but the fact is that the sweet spot for normals is around the ICC / Uld mark - thats when there were most raiding guilds. And these were "enabled" by the raids to the far-left, which allowed for gearing up for these harder-but-still-normal raids. That's the direction WoW needs to be heading difficulty-wise, or risk losing ever more raiding guilds (and therefore subs)

[Osmeric]

Dude you three people have been in this thread all day. If you spent this much time improving your raid you would be workinig on killing Heroic. Jin'rhok by now.

It's not about me.

[Glorious Leader]

So tell me makes ToT normal 10 so hard? What fights? What mechanics? Damage hurt bad isn't really an argument when you are running in circles throwing your hands in the air.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=13#246

I gave some good examples earlier. This post on the forums illuminates and highlights what they struggle with

[anaxie]

Why do you assume that we aren't on heroics?
As I said earlier in this thread, I personally don't have a problem with the difficulty. The problem is that bad players have no engaging content, not me.

I guess I have a sense of empathy, which you may be lacking?

You aren't part of the three people. You don't have my attention as much as the other white knights.

[Glorious Leader]

Again you didn't refer me to any kind of post.What post ''earlier in the thread''why should I go search for your arguments?
Say it in words.If you actually are so convinced that you are right why is so hard to write it down?
Again you're pointing me away.Just write it down.Do you not even know your own arguments?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=13#246

Why should I repost my arguments because your to fucking lazy to go back and do a simple search? I'm not pointing you away I'm giving you a reference. SOMETHING TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF because I'm tired of trying to.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:28 AM ----------

You aren't part of the three people. You don't have my attention as much as the other white knights.

We're the white knights? YOUR DEFENDING THE CURRENT DIFFICULTY AND CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS and we're the white knights? Wow. We live in funny times..

[anaxie]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=13#246

I gave some good examples earlier. This post on the forums illuminates and highlights what they struggle with

I'm sorry are you unable to read? I asked you to tell me what the problems on the fights are. Not provide a link from another crybaby.

[Osmeric]

You aren't part of the three people. You don't have my attention as much as the other white knights.

You've descended to outright ad hominem, simply attacking us for posting style. You have surrendered the argument.

[anaxie]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=13#246

Why should I repost my arguments because your to fucking lazy to go back and do a simple search? I'm not pointing you away I'm giving you a reference. SOMETHING TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF because I'm tired of trying to.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:28 AM ----------



We're the white knights? YOUR DEFENDING THE CURRENT DIFFICULTY AND CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS and we're the white knights? Wow. We live in funny times..

I resort to caps when I have nothing worth reading either.

[Glorious Leader]

All the BC raids happened during population growths as well.

However none of those raids were completed by the majority of players. Raiding is not a game element that the majority of players participates in, so that isn't the answer.

And BC raids were far easier as well. They called for more in terms of time commitment but in terms of skill they were very easy.

[isadorr]

Your belief in this matter is irrelevant. I hate to be blunt like that but I'm sorry. The level of difficulty is exactly that big a jump relative to what the player base can accomplish and what it's willing to stomach.

Look we've got this discussion backwards. Why is it that developers create hardmodes that ROUTINELY CATER TO VERY VERY SMALL MINORITIES but can't create multiple difficulty levels that would potentially cater to much more at the bottom end? Why does the 1% have two raid lvls but the bottom rest of the game get jack shit. You guys should be on your hands and knees begging for them to create fucking beer league.

How is it people pug this INSANELY hard content? Full clear each and every week, with alts and pugs. How? People with some blues full clearing this incredibly hard instance? How do they do it?

People talk of needing motivation to get better? Get off your ass and learn your class like you should have when you were leveling or hit 90. Hit 90, learn your priority rotation, gems/reforge, all of that in 30min then you are set until a patch hits and there are at times very small adjustments of changes which are easy.

None of this matters until people decide to get BETTER. You want things to get easier so people dont have to get BETTER but people have to play at a certain level with the few brains cells they have and the flickering light that is their synapse attempting to fire, you can just go FULL retard, it never works, havent you heard?

[anaxie]

You've descended to outright ad hominem, simply attacking us for posting style. You have surrendered the argument.

At this point it doesn't matter what I say because there is no way to please you people without giving in. Honestly there is no middle ground get better or drown.

[Glorious Leader]

I'm sorry are you unable to read? I asked you to tell me what the problems on the fights are. Not provide a link from another crybaby.

See the problem is anythign I list you'll just break down and say not a problem. You don't fuckign get it because your like a robot. They are HARD and OVERWHELMING FOR OTHERS not for you. It's useless to argue with you both because your a true white knight but also because the developers have already suggested they know better. It's academic. YOU LOSE.

---------- Post added 2013-05-11 at 03:32 AM ----------

I resort to caps when I have nothing worth reading either.

Well when you offer somethign worth reading and stop white knighting so hard then we can have a conversation.

[Luko]

This is getting pathetic. Ad hominem? Are we that sensitive now?

[isadorr]

Those 3 have no logical arguments. I'm amazed this has gone on non stop for over 12 hours. I almost burst a few blood vessels reading him saying the same shit for 50 pages. There literally is no arguing with them and everyone should just leave them alone to play by themselves. Or maybe they can start a guild togehter and make their own Special pretend raid mode.

I'll bring the foam sword rack. Wouldn't want anyone to get a boo boo.

You are exactly right. They dont want to get better, they just want it easier. That is sad in itself. If you dont care enough to get better and play your toon right then raids really dont mean jack shit to you.

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=13#246

Why should I repost my arguments because your to fucking lazy to go back and do a simple search? I'm not pointing you away I'm giving you a reference. SOMETHING TO READ AND EDUCATE YOURSELF because I'm tired of trying to.

It's sad really.I hope everyone sees this.You are litteraly unable to write down your ''arguments'' or give me the number of your ''magic post in this thread earlier''.
I don't care about your WoW thread I'm asking you a simple question,what exactly makes normal raiding so hard?

[anaxie]

And BC raids were far easier as well. They called for more in terms of time commitment but in terms of skill they were very easy.

Untrue. Simple mechanics but they were pretty fatal and unforgiving. Not really something the average raider can handle as TBC raid model proved.

Netherspite was pretty damn easy and I know shittons of exclusive kara guilds that would just simply skip him every week. Apparently three static spawning beams is an extremely hard concept back then.