Why so much enthusiasm for F2P basis for MMOs?

[Korru]

Because F2P is easy to get in and easy to get out.

[Faldric]

Not a fan of F2P myself, because its mostly done pretty badly. But I dont mind it on MMOs. Why? Because the company actually has to deliver stuff I like to pay for. Sub fees tend to make companies do as little as possible to get the largest possible profit( look at you wow, where blizz just recently upped their game when subs finally went down). In F2P they actually have to produce stuff to earn money. And since there is no monthly fee that binds you, you can stop playing whenever you like.

[Dilbon]

with that logic, every game is pay2win.

Life is pay2win.

[Remilia]

One thing WoW doesnt do is let you buy things for money.

http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5,c:33

[Deleted]

http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5,c:33

TRH how i do not miss the sight of you.

[Thes]

1. You can buy cash shop currency with in game gold
2. You can buy in game currency with a credit card

While many are charmed and content with the first point, I find the second one far more interesting.



And even though I know I am beating a dead horse here..

If I want a legendary or BiS gear in WoW, my options are:

• Do the most challenging PvE content with 24 friends. Skill and brains necessary.
• Do the most challenging PvE content with 9 friends. Skill and brains necessary.

If I want a legendary or BiS gear in GW2, my options are:

• Sink a couple months of hardcore grind into the game. No skill but some brains necessary.
• Whip out my credit card and get everything in 5 minutes. Big wallet necessary.

You can't buy gear sold by Arenanet in GW2. And comparing a game that lives off of gear treadmill (you have artificial cockblocks in the game just so you'd spent another month farming and paying) with a game that essentially tries to get away from the gear treadmill is a little silly don't you think?

You could essentially buy gems with real money and convert to gold which you could use to buy gear in the auction house. This just in, it took me 3 days to get full exotic (I think it was called that?) set without paying anything. The game isn't about gear like WoW is.

http://us.blizzard.com/store/browse.xml?f=c:5,c:33

Not to mention how much it costs to change faction or realm. I think I've spent over 150€ or something on realm/faction transfers alone.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

If you think P2P games are a thing of the past, you haven't seen Wildstar. Granted, the business model of this game was not yet revealed, but for what it's going to offer, there's no way it won't be P2P, or at the very least, B2P with optional sub. Many people are bored to death with WoW, and Wildstar is going to bring fresh air into the genre if at least half of what's said about it happens to be true.

There's also TES:O, which is surely going to have loads of people paying sub even if the game itself is bad.

IMO, B2P with optional sub and well designed cash shop is the best business model for the upcoming top shelf games, though they COULD also be successful as P2P.

Some people really buying into the hype train early!

Even if Wildstar is good (and I hope it is), I would still argue that it would be a mistake for them to launch as p2p in the current market with so many different titles competing for people's attention. Going p2p means you are instantly competing with the social inertia of wow vs letting people feel like they can play both guilt-free (and then maybe eventually that inertia will fade and they'll join WS permanently). They need to launch B2P like GW2 with a sensible cash shop and then eventually just have the box be free once the first expansion hits. In the long haul, they'll probably make more $ with that model and have a much larger base as well.

[Airlick]

I feel that the F2P model can go in a very wrong direction. SWToR is a perfect example, basicly from level 1 you are restricted and I think around level 8-12 you are restricted in so many ways that most people either gives in and buy all the stuff they need to make it viable or go subscribtion for all lacks that the free model does.

You forgot the option #3, the most popular: they see the 'F2P' version of the game is extremely limited, and the game in general is simply not worth a penny and they uninstall around level 10. That's the full extent of how terrible SW:ToR's business model is.

Some people really buying into the hype train early!

Even if Wildstar is good (and I hope it is), I would still argue that it would be a mistake for them to launch as p2p in the current market with so many different titles competing for people's attention. Going p2p means you are instantly competing with the social inertia of wow vs letting people feel like they can play both guilt-free (and then maybe eventually that inertia will fade and they'll join WS permanently). They need to launch B2P like GW2 with a sensible cash shop and then eventually just have the box be free once the first expansion hits. In the long haul, they'll probably make more $ with that model and have a much larger base as well.

Well, I'm getting more and more hyped for months, and with each announcement from the devs, the hype only gets bigger. :P I wouldn't mind WS being B2P, but I'm already certain I will be playing it even if it's P2P.

[Deleted]

You forgot the option #3, the most popular: they see the 'F2P' version of the game is extremely limited, and the game in general is simply not worth a penny and they uninstall around level 10. That's the full extent of how terrible SW:ToR's business model is.




Well, I'm getting more and more hyped for months, and with each announcement from the devs, the hype only gets bigger. :P I wouldn't mind WS being B2P, but I'm already certain I will be playing it even if it's P2P.

Im sure many people would pay a subfee, many people did for Star wars, many people did for secret world, many people did for tera. However, usually that's not enough and those I mentioned swapped models. I say go f2p or b2p at start, so people will know their business model, instead of crapping up a p2p game with a crappy f2p/b2p model... because most likely that's where they will be heading

[stellvia]

Because F2P mmo's don't view their subscribers as milking cows, they are free and still provide superior content, if the development team doesn't develop fun content then they lose their income much faster then a subscription MMO and because subscription based MMO's are not worth the monthly investment for most people.

Actually that's exactly what I see F2P mmos to think of their players, for the vast majority of them. Put in a minimum effort into the actual game, and maximum amount into cosmetic gear for the money. Meanwhile things like game balance, UI, features, content etc. suffer. And usually some kind of poisoning of the gameplay to make it distasteful unless you pay. Granted, there are rare exceptions like GW2. But nearly all the F2P I've played or seen has seemed 10 years behind the curve in design/polish, or really lacking in content.

IMHO the best compromise would be a game that offers a Subscription or Free accounts. Where Subscription would be like any other P2P game. And the Free account would have restrictions and/or EXP penalty etc. Where the intended format of the game is to Sub, but if you absolutely are destitute, or 12 or something, you could still play for free.

[Ausr]

Actually that's exactly what I see F2P mmos to think of their players, for the vast majority of them. Put in a minimum effort into the actual game, and maximum amount into cosmetic gear for the money. Meanwhile things like game balance, UI, features, content etc. suffer. And usually some kind of poisoning of the gameplay to make it distasteful unless you pay. Granted, there are rare exceptions like GW2. But nearly all the F2P I've played or seen has seemed 10 years behind the curve in design/polish, or really lacking in content.

IMHO the best compromise would be a game that offers a Subscription or Free accounts. Where Subscription would be like any other P2P game. And the Free account would have restrictions and/or EXP penalty etc. Where the intended format of the game is to Sub, but if you absolutely are destitute, or 12 or something, you could still play for free.

Agree with you there.

I admit, I kinda spit out my Dr Pepper laughing when he said F2P don't treat their players like milk cows.

[Neotokyo]

I think f2p has its place.. I am loving Neverwinter right now.. and haven't spent a penny... But Happily pay for wow. If a game has the quality of wow and the sheer amount of content, then sure I'll sub, but I dont see it happening any time soon.

[Edge-]

I admit, I kinda spit out my Dr Pepper laughing when he said F2P don't treat their players like milk cows.

Some do, some don't. As with any business model (subscription, F2P, B2P etc.), there are good implementations and bad implementations of the model.

[Valeron]

Indeed, you can't paint with a broad stroke in this case. There are some payment models that are pretty predatory and some that are very benign.

I'd say that Blizzard has the biggest cash cow with WoW, box price, subscription, and a cash shop. And the fans eat that up.

[Achaman]

even though i havnt payed a sub for a game in a very long time id still rather do that than have to buy char unlocks etc or have restrictions for getting less exp or not being able to use general chat till 30 or some other crap

[Torched]

Indeed, you can't paint with a broad stroke in this case. There are some payment models that are pretty predatory and some that are very benign.

I'd say that Blizzard has the biggest cash cow with WoW, box price, subscription, and a cash shop. And the fans eat that up.

This is pretty true.
I always find it funny when people are saying that games like Gw2 that has a cash shop, somehow makes it stupid and calls it a cash cow when even WoW has a cash shop and they make you pay for things like server xfers and Racial changes.

WoW cash shop has mounts and pets that you can´t get ingame.
Server transfer = 20 Euros or 25$
Race change = 20 Euros (yes it fucking costs 20 fucking euros to change your race)
Changing your name costs I think and so does it to change the look of your char.

[stellvia]

Unfortunately the restrictions on general chat etc. is usually more preventive measures against bots than anything. They ruin it for others.

[Rukh]

It's not from me. I don't mind a sub to keep a great MMO going. Every "F2P" ends up being P2W in some form. People pay to pypass the difficulty and the game is cheapened.

[Ferocity]

I played a bit Allods Online some time ago (original servers, not English ones), which is one of better but lesser known WoW clones, and I'd say they have optimal f2p system. You have full access to the game and can participate in all content. Cash shop allows you to bypass a lot of grind if you don't have time for it, which is just great for people who have jobs and don't look toward 2nd job before actually playing. Oh yeah there were even some dailies for reputation which could be completely bought away from by Cash Shop.

No need to say how much I was pissed off by MoP dailies which are 1000 times more awful than in AO, and which are much more vital than in AO. Talk about p2p game with same feature as in f2p analogue, where it was used to pull people into cash shop -.-

Imo, this is optimal type of f2p. You don't pay to work like on 2nd job (as now I really ask myself why I keep paying for WoW if all I do is 2nd job grind, and paying for job is tbh nonsence), but if you have some more free time, you have all content accessible just with some more grind.

[Minetor]

You just don't get your moneys worth with sub if i pay £8.99 a month i want new good content every 1-2 months and that just is not going to happen unless they have a 30 man team working 24/7 on new content. With F2P you can dip in and out when new content shows up. Ofc F2P has downside like Swtor eg who make the game so anoying and inconvienent to play if you don't buy all the stuff or sub i mean come on have to pay real money to get an option like turn off head armor lol.