Shadow Priest PvP stat Priority.

[Zalkiden]

I've recently been getting into playing a Shadow Priest and currently been going on the PTR to test the waters.
One thing that is riddling me is the stat priority. Haste > Crit > Mastery
From changing around the gems and testing multiple ways of doing dps I've come to start doing Mastery > Haste > Crit as the priority and can't seem to understand why other would go the other way.
Between the 2 ways of going for stats the difference in stats are roughly:

4% Crit
4% Haste
and....18% Mastery.

At first, I thought maybe the haste was for a haste threshold for an extra dot tick. Which did not seem to be the case since 24% haste is the next dot tick for 2 of the dots. Then after more research I found that it's so you can spam heals just a small bit quicker....doesn't really impress me. And then with the crit I've heard it's prioritized for the chance at small random burst of damage on Mind Blast. To that I must ask why give up 18% Mastery for 4% of the other 2? I realize mastery is only offensive stat with no defensive value (Doesn't effect heals) but it gets you to near 40% chance for VT, SWP, DP, AND Mindflay to proc double damage, which includes crits in that number even. Even Insanity Flays can proc the double damage. Give me a mastery buff and it jumps to near 50% chance for this to happen.

Anyways, I just wanted to hear everyones opinions on the matter. Perhaps, I can be given further insight as to why that 4% haste and crit is so important.

[omniscience]

Haste will allways be better than mastery/crit, even out of breakpoints. At least in pve it is, and I cant see why it should be different in pvp.

Tbh, go with what you want. I run with haste-crit-mastery, mostly because of the reasons you mention, like crit offering some defense along with the defensive.

[Sajek]

Your analysis is not without merit and I've thought about this too. Even the PvE theorycraft out there is to be taken with at least, some grain of salt since few fights are straight tank and spank with no movement and w/e...I've been seriously thinking about reforging to what I think should work (in my case, less crit and more mastery since theory says crit is better than mastery).

However, in PvP, you may entirely be correct, especially since you move around so damn much that the majority of your damage is from dots. On the flip side, PvP is not only about doing lots of damage but being able to take as many actions as you can in the least amount of time which can't be neglected. I go as much haste as I can in pvp but not due to damage. I might toy around it some more to see if my style is conducive to more mastery or crit for example. PvP especially does not lend itself to theorycrafting very well imo.

[hikamiro]

PvP Gear going Haste > Crit > Mastery

Haste from stats 13.83%
Crit from stats 6.73%
Mastery from stats 5.98%

PvP Gear going Mastery > Haste > Crit

Haste from stats 11.85%
Crit from stats 3.78%
Mastery from stats 13.80%

Where the fuck are you getting 18% mastery? i only see at most a ~8% gain.

Personally i prefer Haste > Mastery > Crit. Haste helps a lot with getting VT / Mind blast off, especially when getting trained by double melee.

For refrence,
Haste > Mastery > Crit stats

Haste from stats 13.90%
Crit from stats 3.78%
Mastery from stats 11.19%

[Zalkiden]

I was not talking about the actual gain just from the gear, I was talking about the final stats on my entire character between the different stat set ups.

Which is where I got the numbers, when changing my entire gear set up....not just reforges.
I go from 38% mastery down to 20% mastery yet I only gain 4 - 5% haste and 3 - 4% crit.

Just from looking at it, I simply do not understand how people are saying that gaining .07 sec off VT, Flash Heal, and Mind Blast is worth the loss of 18% chance of doing double damage. Which is essentially a crit....that can crit again. I personally would rather take the ~4% Haste and Crit loss and gain a 18% chance at doing double damage with VT, SWP, DP, and MF.

I suppose if you're playing with the talent 'From Darkness, Comes Light' I can see haste and crit taking over mastery considering with that type of gameplay you rely more on procs and crits from those procs for your damage. I just don't like this kind of gameplay, I guess. Waiting for RNG to get a proc and then hoping that the RNG gods also give you a crit with that proc seems....unreliable. Which is why I prefer the talent 'Solace and Insanity' where I can directly determine when I burst and KNOW it's coming. With this kind of gameplay I personally see mastery pulling ahead considering all the places it increases damage. Specifically with that talent choice.

I don't know, perhaps I'm just inexperienced. The stats weights have just been bothering me.

[veiledy0]

You don't go for haste in PvP for bonus DoT ticks. You go for haste to reduce both GCD and cast time on your Vamp, which are prolly the 2 most vital things for a SP when it comes to dealing dmg in a PvP environment.

As for the other 2 stats, if you want a chance for a stronger burst through your DP, you go for crit (crit rises even more in value if you use FDCL). If you want more consistent burst, due to more DI procs from more DoT ticks, you go for mastery. It's just that simple. That's why I love PvP, no maths, no nerd stuff, no nothing, just choices of your own.

[Zalkiden]

Alright then, if the only reason is a small reduction in GCD, and .07 time off my casted spells (Mind Blast, VT, and Flash heal all have the same cast times). Then I suppose mastery IS the way I'll go. FDCL gameplay is too random for my taste and hoping for crits has never been a style I've enjoyed for achieving kills. I'd rather my skill of play with optimum pressure and CC be the determining factor of winning.

Someone should create a sticky for the different types of gameplay spriest can get into and the advantages of both. Considering this confused me quite the bit when I was testing.

[yurano]

You don't go for haste in PvP for bonus DoT ticks. You go for haste to reduce both GCD and cast time on your Vamp, which are prolly the 2 most vital things for a SP when it comes to dealing dmg in a PvP environment.

Haste matters if you take Solace.

[arandan]

Alright then, if the only reason is a small reduction in GCD, and .07 time off my casted spells (Mind Blast, VT, and Flash heal all have the same cast times). Then I suppose mastery IS the way I'll go. FDCL gameplay is too random for my taste and hoping for crits has never been a style I've enjoyed for achieving kills. I'd rather my skill of play with optimum pressure and CC be the determining factor of winning.

Someone should create a sticky for the different types of gameplay spriest can get into and the advantages of both. Considering this confused me quite the bit when I was testing.

There are no stickies because all it takes to figure out what you need is some thinking and common sense.
Let's get over what you just posted, shall we.
You don't like RNG crits so you opt to go for mastery, which translates to RNG (sic!) additional dot ticks. Nice way of 'thinking' there pal.

You have two sorts of rated pvp, battlegrounds and arena, the difference for you is the amount of targets. In BGs you can dot a lot of targets, thus you get most of ... mastery (yeah so hard right).
In arena, you'll be playing 2s or 3s, that's NOT a large amount of targets (so hard again right), in addition you are fighting in a confined space, with one or two melees on your ass interrupting you, so you won't even be able to keep 100% uptime on those dots. Thus you get most out of crit, especially when you are going for a kill in a very tiny window, the chance to crit is far more valuable than a chance for one of your dots to deal 2x damage.

Haste is king no matter where you play, you get faster cast times, lower gcd, more damage on your dots. How can you fail to understand this bit is beyond me, because it's the easiest one to grasp.

[BobAwesome]

Haste>Crit>=Mastery.

If you're doing Arena, I'd suggest Crit since most arena matches, the enemy healer will cleanse your dots making Mastery pretty much a wasted stat. In BGs/RBG's Your dots will last a little longer although in RBG's they'll still probably be dispelled. Crit effects all of your spells, while mastery only effects our 3 dots and Mind Flay, which if you're actually allowed to cast, it's not really going to matter what stat you're stacking, you're going to deal TONS OF DAMAGE. A free casting Spriest is going to melt faces regardless. Haste is king because of reasons already stated (Faster casts, lower GCD)

I suppose if you're playing with the talent 'From Darkness, Comes Light' I can see haste and crit taking over mastery considering with that type of gameplay you rely more on procs and crits from those procs for your damage. I just don't like this kind of gameplay, I guess. Waiting for RNG to get a proc and then hoping that the RNG gods also give you a crit with that proc seems....unreliable. Which is why I prefer the talent 'Solace and Insanity' where I can directly determine when I burst and KNOW it's coming. With this kind of gameplay I personally see mastery pulling ahead considering all the places it increases damage. Specifically with that talent choice.

I don't know, perhaps I'm just inexperienced. The stats weights have just been bothering me.

MF:I is nice, when you can get away with using it. But FDCL procs allow you to deal damage while not having to worry about the myriad of interrupts out there.

[stickyjam]

simply put

mastery affects your low damage spells for a chance at a free crit.

crit affects all your nuke spells. a free swp crit will cauase barely any pressure a Mind blast crit causes alot of pressure.


haste is faster casts, easier fake casting, quicker casts when people are on you.

[omniscience]

simply put

mastery affects your low damage spells for a chance at a free crit.

crit affects all your nuke spells. a free swp crit will cauase barely any pressure a Mind blast crit causes alot of pressure.


haste is faster casts, easier fake casting, quicker casts when people are on you.

How exactly is it easier to fakecast when you have alot of haste?