[WW] Jin'rokh. my damage is poop

[docalan]

So I feel like I'm pretty good at my class, I rank in the top 20 constantly and have a few top US 5. I have 4 piece and rune. I have a heroic 2hander which isn't ideal but good enough. My damage on Jin'rokh is horrible, and I have no idea why(like i do 190k and the highest people are doing like 290k+) Now 100k damage is a lot, so I'm pretty sure I'm just missing something, but I have no idea what it is (and yes i know about the damage bonus from the puddles) Anyone have any tricks or do anything to boost their damage on this fight, I have 0 idea what I'm doing wrong, and I think I'm just missing something?...

[Xifangbaihu]

Well I'd venture a guess that the classes that are doin 290k+ are ranged with great burst. That fight's puddle mechanic gives a much greater boost to ranged classes than melee, due to the puddle starting small and growing larger (giving them more uptime on the boss with the buff) while melee classes generally have to wait for the puddle to grow large enough to hit the boss that is outside of it.

But Tricks that can help:
1: Save your tigerbrew stacks for when you are in the puddles with trinket procs.
2: If you have RoR, un-equip it and re-equip it right before you pull. This will make it less likely to proc right away and will hopefully proc when you have tigerbrew stacks and are in a puddle.
3: Not have bursty ranged classes that know what they are doing in the raid lol.

I am sure there are more tips. I know others probably have more or better ones than I do.

[Deleted]

The fight is just really RNG.

Get good rune procs in pools? Good dps

Get bad rune procs in pool? bad dps

I think I did better on our 2nd kill than our 6th due to that.

[Deleted]

Yeah basically what Pattison said - pray to the rng gods for good rune procs. I guess a few tips are: Try and DPS throughout the storm phase; it is risky though so use your defensive CDs there. I like to pop frot brew near the beginning of the phase and ToK shortly after when I think I might get hit. After ToK is over pop diffuse magic and you will end up taking next to no damage for the phase. ToK should just about be up for the second storm so keep and eye out on it's CD. I would say on this fight it is worth unequiping rune on pull as you don't want to use any TeB stacks before the first pool. Also use your potion when you are in a pool with a rune proc.

[Imbalanced]

Use diffuse to remove your own lightning debuff outside the puddle once your rune procs (while your waiting for it to approach the end of its duration) so that you dont have to leave the puddle at all while your TeB is up

[Chiasmus]

I struggle heavily to compete on this fight due to the constant 2-3 second delays in the pools, meaning I get around 6 abilities off during a full Runed-TeB. I assume other 25 man raiders have similar issues there too.

[Deleted]

I struggle heavily to compete on this fight due to the constant 2-3 second delays in the pools, meaning I get around 6 abilities off during a full Runed-TeB. I assume other 25 man raiders have similar issues there too.

What do you mean by this? Lag standing in the pools or something?

[kaiadam]

Lag, otherwise known as "f'ing hunters just stampeded".

On topic - not too many know this but the puddle doesn't actually become electrified until like 6 seconds into the lightning storm cast. If you're brave enough, stand in the edge of the pool and start rolling cds about 3-4 seconds into the cast, then move out when you see your waters debuff fall.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, Xuen is a guardian and therefor doesn't benefit from the pool debuff. Pop him at the beginning of the fight to align him more with trinkets. Also, to hopefully get a second one off if enough raiders die so the fight lasts more than 3 min.

[Verain]

Well I'd venture a guess that the classes that are doin 290k+ are ranged with great burst. That fight's puddle mechanic gives a much greater boost to ranged classes than melee, due to the puddle starting small and growing larger (giving them more uptime on the boss with the buff) while melee classes generally have to wait for the puddle to grow large enough to hit the boss that is outside of it.

In heroic, the boss is normally brought over to the puddles VERY quickly. Top DPS on this fight should be mutilate rogue, full stop.

2: If you have RoR, un-equip it and re-equip it right before you pull. This will make it less likely to proc right away and will hopefully proc when you have tigerbrew stacks and are in a puddle.

Please do NOT do this. RoR has a VERY short ICD. The initial proc on pull will not in ANY way effect your chance of having a proc during the puddle. If you have a trinket with a VERY high proc chance and a long ICD (such as the SPA agility trinket), then this is a valid tip- that trinket has an invisible 105 second ICD that begins spinning when you first put it on. You can put it on, say, 40-60 seconds prior to pull, I think? It's been awhile since I had this trinket.

But to reiterate- if you have ANY raid dropped trinket from this tier, do NOT dequip and equip. Leave it on. The ICDs are all very small, and there is no higher chance once the ICD is up. You will have the same chance for RoR procs (or ToB, or Juju, or others) if you leave it on, with the exception that you are much more likely to have one at the start.

3: Not have bursty ranged classes that know what they are doing in the raid lol.

This is not really a ranged fight. Ranged have to move a lot during storm, and that doesn't hurt melee. However, your dps will be higher the better your friends are- as with all fights, a shorter fight means more time in heroism. You will rank higher with other solid dps players unless you are doing something very unusual. And of course, killing the boss is what matters anyway.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 11:24 PM ----------

Lag, otherwise known as "f'ing hunters just stampeded".

Make your entire raid refresh their copies of Recount and Skada. ANYONE in your raid with an older version can cause YOU to lag during stampede.

[Florena]

This boss is probably my highest dps fight all expansion. Seems custom built for windwalkers. Don't know what most guilds do, but our tanks pull the boss towards the pool so we don't have to stand and wait for it. And you're able to gather up TEB stacks during on water times and blow them when in water. You can also hit touch of karma every storm phase. If your tanks aren't pulling the boss to the water so melee get full uptime on puddles, I'd try and get them to do so. Unless you're doing heroic mode and heroic mode has some mechanic that negates this.

[Requital]

Please do NOT do this. RoR has a VERY short ICD. The initial proc on pull will not in ANY way effect your chance of having a proc during the puddle. If you have a trinket with a VERY high proc chance and a long ICD (such as the SPA agility trinket), then this is a valid tip- that trinket has an invisible 105 second ICD that begins spinning when you first put it on. You can put it on, say, 40-60 seconds prior to pull, I think? It's been awhile since I had this trinket.

But to reiterate- if you have ANY raid dropped trinket from this tier, do NOT dequip and equip. Leave it on. The ICDs are all very small, and there is no higher chance once the ICD is up. You will have the same chance for RoR procs (or ToB, or Juju, or others) if you leave it on, with the exception that you are much more likely to have one at the start.

This is wrong, I remove and re-equip both trinkets before the pull and almost always end up with 10 stacks and double procing when I need it. The ICD of the trinket has nothing to do with the 30 sec ICD from swapping the trinket. Having a proc at the beginning when you have 3-4 stacks of TeB is a wasted proc removing and re-equipping them before the pull gives a solid 30-45 second delay before the first proc which is plenty time to build 10 TeB.

[Verain]

Heroic does not. The heroic mechanics are ionization (which I don't know if you guys can cheese- I don't think so, but maybe), which, if you have to deal with it, requires you to run out of each pool for a couple seconds, get dispelled, and get healed (often you blow a mild defensive for this), and the fact that Lightning Storm requires a hell of a lot of movement to dodge dumb lightning balls.

The moment the throw finishes, the second tank will normally get the boss over near the pool, and then rotate outwards so his butt is poolside and the tank is far from the water.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 11:42 PM ----------

This is wrong, I remove and re-equip both trinkets before the pull and almost always end up with 10 stacks and double procing when I need it. The ICD of the trinket has nothing to do with the 30 sec ICD from swapping the trinket. Having a proc at the beginning when you have 3-4 stacks of TeB is a wasted proc removing and re-equipping them before the pull gives a solid 30-45 second delay before the first proc which is plenty time to build 10 TeB.

The trinket in question (RoR) has an ICD that is only slightly longer than the buff itself. If you don't want to see a proc within 30 seconds, this will give you that, but so would a cancelaura button for the buff. Your later proc is not affected by your earlier proc- it is just as likely to occur (or not). The trinket is RPPM, and GC posted plenty about that!

[Deleted]

The trinket in question (RoR) has an ICD that is only slightly longer than the buff itself. If you don't want to see a proc within 30 seconds, this will give you that, but so would a cancelaura button for the buff. Your later proc is not affected by your earlier proc- it is just as likely to occur (or not). The trinket is RPPM, and GC posted plenty about that!

I don't think you quite understand the trinket at all, or why people re-equip it before a pull. The ICD I believe is 22 seconds, but that is irrelevant to this discussion. When you unequip and re-equip before a fight you trigger a 30 seconds period where the trinket cannot proc. So when you pull with your potion up and everything else proccing RoR is not going to gimp your haste and crit, and ultimately TeB stacks whilst it is up. On Jin'Rokh for example you want to save all of your stacks for the pools, so if you can force delay RoR at the start of the fight then you are in a good position.

[Verain]

Right, but wouldn't you still want a cancelaura for if it procs at other bad times then? It seems like you'd want a real solution (get back your haste/crit) instead of a stopgap (turn it off for the first 30, allowing it to proc any time incorrectly after that).

But to be clear- it's a dps loss for you if it procs in the first... how many seconds?

[kaiadam]

Right, but wouldn't you still want a cancelaura for if it procs at other bad times then? It seems like you'd want a real solution (get back your haste/crit) instead of a stopgap (turn it off for the first 30, allowing it to proc any time incorrectly after that).

But to be clear- it's a dps loss for you if it procs in the first... how many seconds?

You cannot cancelaura the Rune of Reorigination proc.

It's a dps loss until you have a decent amount of TeB stacks, which is somewhat dependant on situations, but usually I'd say 6.

[Xifangbaihu]

With what the trinket does to our stats and gameplay, it might have been better suited as an on-use trinket with a short cooldown, say 1 minute similar to its rppm rate. It would still have the skill component to it without the RNG bonus of proccing at the worst times and gimping stats and gameplay. That's just a thought though.

[Verain]

I didn't believe that you can no longer cancel it. Was this a hotfix? I only have the LFR version, so I don't use mine regularly, but when I first got it, I swear I could cancel Re-Origination. But sure enough, nope. If it's a dps loss for it to proc with low stacks, then my earlier stuff is all garbage. I assumed the goal was to try to push the proc later, which won't work. But instead the goal is to eliminate an early proc, so that will.

[Rickarus]

I didn't believe that you can no longer cancel it. Was this a hotfix? I only have the LFR version, so I don't use mine regularly, but when I first got it, I swear I could cancel Re-Origination. But sure enough, nope. If it's a dps loss for it to proc with low stacks, then my earlier stuff is all garbage. I assumed the goal was to try to push the proc later, which won't work. But instead the goal is to eliminate an early proc, so that will.

Hasn't been able to be canceled since on the PTR, likely because of how ridiculous it would be to cheese as a WW, doing what we already do (using Tigereye brew at the end of the proc to have over 100% increased damage for ~14 seconds with our normal haste and crit), but without needing to deal with the time during the proc with no haste nor crit, and being able to get the full 15 seconds worth of buffed TeB while also having regular haste and crit numbers.


As for the OP - Definitely do the re-equipping thing with RoR, dispel yourself with diffuse magic when the debuff goes out (saves loads of time compared to waiting to be dispelled, and you can make sure you're in for any RoR TeB phases), do your best to dps through storm phase including using ToK for survivability and extra damage, and pray you get lucky. Also, if you aren't already, when the boss gets close to dying (around 15 seconds left), make sure you pop Tigereye Brew whether you had RoR proc or not, for that little extra bit of dps at the end. And hope that you kill it during a puddle (ideally just before the end) so you have spent as much time dpsing in puddles vs. not in puddles as possible.

The only other suggestion I would have is get heroic 1handers (obvious, I know lol).

As for when to use Xuen, I tend to use him during Hero/Lust if I know the group is gonna kill him quick, since Xuen does benefit from speed bonuses.

[Rife]

You need to pray to RNGesus if want good DPS on Jin'Rokh as any class.

My DPS last night after the first pool fluctuated between 180k and 300k DPS. It's just luck of the draw.

[Verain]

I don't think that's true of all classes. I don't see such wild swings normally as a rogue, for instance.