pvp changes in 5.3 will ruin the pvp fun (my opinion)

[Otimus]

now apply what you just said to pve heroes .thats fair right?all raiding is doing the same thing over and over again for hours upon hours each day right?why should time invested = gear for pvers?o thats right because its pve and its ok to have a gear advantage over other pvers that dont put in the same time.

PVE isn't inherently competitive, it's just playing the game against NPC's :x It's not really comparable (Though, I'd say some of the obstacles in PVE gearing are kind of lame too.. but gear should be of little of the equation as possible in a player versus player environment. I've never seen anyone able to explain that logic. Do you think people in shooters who have been playing longer than you should be able to shoot you with much more powerful bullets? Of course you don't. No one would think that, I hope. So why have that logic in the same sort of gameplay in an MMO?)

[meathead]

PVE isn't inherently competitive, it's just playing the game against NPC's :x It's not really comparable (Though, I'd say some of the obstacles in PVE gearing are kind of lame too.. but gear should be of little of the equation as possible in a player versus player environment. I've never seen anyone able to explain that logic. Do you think people in shooters who have been playing longer than you should be able to shoot you with much more powerful bullets? Of course you don't. No one would think that, I hope. So why have that logic in the same sort of gameplay in an MMO?)

do you think people in shooters that have been playing longer should have better guns to shoot you with over a new player = yes if they actully "pvp/shoot".the "bullets" as you call them should be better to,why is that you ask?well because people that have been playing longer get out and earned/bought the better "gear/bullets". you can try to spin this anyway you want but this is a bad change.you talk like its hard to get pvp gear,one day of bgs and you have a full set,how is that hard?

"PVE isn't inherently competitive"
just stop now because your making yourself look dumb.world first-server first- players show up to get gear so they have an advantage of other players,stop saying they dont.

people are trying to figure out what gear is best for pvp now,pvp gear or pve gear right? that = bad change,it should not even be close at all.is the 496 pve gear better then the 479 pvp gear?some say yes other say no,but it never should even be that close.479 pvp gear should be far far better in pvp then even the bis raid gear,and there is nothing you can say to counter that.


maybe blizz should give every new toon 25k gold because they are at a disadvantage and need that gold to buy gear/gems/mounts ect.it would get more players into wow right?why on earth would blizz want a new toon to start off with zero gold and have to EARN gold if they want to buy stuff is beyond me.or maybe blizz should just remove all gear types,all gold,honor,conquest,ect and make everything free and just base it on toon level.that would be good for the game right because everyone can have bis gear and no one would be left out.gear progression would be gone so everything and everyone is = now.

see how dumb that shit sounds?

[Dristereau]

Been looking more at the issue, and read the Warlock post on Arena Junkies, with Veev calculating that the SPA Trinket was twice as good as the PVP one, even with the reductions. And as he said these would probably be better for all classes, the best setup for most people would be SPA Trinket and Freedom. For Humans, I think that http://www.wowhead.com/item=95802# may also be pretty decent for someone who has a great Secondary Stat (IE Destro Locks).

Another thing I'm currently looking into on my Priest is the Healing Sets and their perks. http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=-544 Two Piece could be great with reduced Mana cost, as you would still be getting the majority of your PVP Power from the Weapon. Four Piece also has potential, and I don't know how good http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=-715 could be for the Four Piece bonus there. You would only loose around 5.5% PVP Power, and if the set bonuses were good enough it has potential.

Also the issue for gear concerns is that getting a new piece (besides Weapons) doesn't feel much like an upgrade, and also Blizzard finally sorted stats out for PVP Offensively and Defensively and then proceeded to make them one of the worst things in people's lists of Priorities under Intellect, Agility, Strength and Secondary Stats.

[Osmeric]

PVE isn't inherently competitive, it's just playing the game against NPC's :x

PvE is very competitive, if you are raiding beyond LFR. Such raiding requires ditching underperforming players. You are competing against the other people on your team, and against potential recruits. And teams are competing against other teams for recruits, and for people who will jump to the more progressed team.

I've always been bemused that Blizzard wants people to slow down, then has a system that gives great incentive to gear as fast as you can, to beat the others that are gearing as fast as they can.

[Otimus]

do you think people in shooters that have been playing longer should have better guns to shoot you with over a new player = yes if they actully "pvp/shoot".the "bullets" as you call them should be better to,why is that you ask?well because people that have been playing longer get out and earned/bought the better "gear/bullets". you can try to spin this anyway you want but this is a bad change.you talk like its hard to get pvp gear,one day of bgs and you have a full set,how is that hard?

"PVE isn't inherently competitive"
just stop now because your making yourself look dumb.world first-server first- players show up to get gear so they have an advantage of other players,stop saying they dont.

people are trying to figure out what gear is best for pvp now,pvp gear or pve gear right? that = bad change,it should not even be close at all.is the 496 pve gear better then the 479 pvp gear?some say yes other say no,but it never should even be that close.479 pvp gear should be far far better in pvp then even the bis raid gear,and there is nothing you can say to counter that.


maybe blizz should give every new toon 25k gold because they are at a disadvantage and need that gold to buy gear/gems/mounts ect.it would get more players into wow right?why on earth would blizz want a new toon to start off with zero gold and have to EARN gold if they want to buy stuff is beyond me.or maybe blizz should just remove all gear types,all gold,honor,conquest,ect and make everything free and just base it on toon level.that would be good for the game right because everyone can have bis gear and no one would be left out.gear progression would be gone so everything and everyone is = now.

see how dumb that shit sounds?

I didn't say PVE wasn't competitive. I said it wasn't INHERENTLY competitive. You aren't fighting other players. You're twisting my words around for... I don't even know why you're doing that. BY the loose logic, ANYTHING ever can be competitive (and most anytyhing IS competitive). That's not what I mean. I mean PVE isn't a competitive environment in which you're FIGHTING other players. You're doing an instance against NPC's.

To your first thing, no games on earth follow that line of logic except F2P games where you buy advantages and MMOs.

No one should get inherent advantages just because they play longer. It's piss poor design, and most companies know this, and avoid it. MMOs tend to just use gear as a carrot on a stick mechanic to keep people playing a monthly fee.

What you're talking about is not the same -at all-. It's not relatable. At all. At freaking all.

and really, who cares if it is or isn't hard? Why is it bad? How can you explain that it's bad? I don't understand. The less importance gear is in PVP, the better. If this is such a good thing, how come no other games use it :x

PVP is not PVE. This is not a PERFECT change, but it's one in the right direction.


If I had it my way, there should be NO gear -at all- in PVP, and your customization should revolve around gems and enchants only.
All rewards would be cosmetic, and upon entering PVP, you'd be immediately max level, and could do it ALL at any level.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 01:15 PM ----------

PvE is very competitive, if you are raiding beyond LFR. Such raiding requires ditching underperforming players. You are competing against the other people on your team, and against potential recruits. And teams are competing against other teams for recruits, and for people who will jump to the more progressed team.

I've always been bemused that Blizzard wants people to slow down, then has a system that gives great incentive to gear as fast as you can, to beat the others that are gearing as fast as they can.

Being inherently competitive isn't the same thing. The competitive of PVE is more comparable to racing to finish a game first, and find the best people to finish the thing first, or something. It's not really the same thing at all. Like I said before... by the logic, ANYTHING is competitive.

Basically, all I'm saying is, is the two things can't really be compared.

[meathead]

I didn't say PVE wasn't competitive. I said it wasn't INHERENTLY competitive. You aren't fighting other players. You're twisting my words around for... I don't even know why you're doing that. BY the loose logic, ANYTHING ever can be competitive (and most anytyhing IS competitive). That's not what I mean. I mean PVE isn't a competitive environment in which you're FIGHTING other players. You're doing an instance against NPC's.

To your first thing, no games on earth follow that line of logic except F2P games where you buy advantages and MMOs.

No one should get inherent advantages just because they play longer. It's piss poor design, and most companies know this, and avoid it. MMOs tend to just use gear as a carrot on a stick mechanic to keep people playing a monthly fee.

What you're talking about is not the same -at all-. It's not relatable. At all. At freaking all.

and really, who cares if it is or isn't hard? Why is it bad? How can you explain that it's bad? I don't understand. The less importance gear is in PVP, the better. If this is such a good thing, how come no other games use it :x

PVP is not PVE. This is not a PERFECT change, but it's one in the right direction.


If I had it my way, there should be NO gear -at all- in PVP, and your customization should revolve around gems and enchants only.
All rewards would be cosmetic, and upon entering PVP, you'd be immediately max level, and could do it ALL at any level.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 01:15 PM ----------



Being inherently competitive isn't the same thing. The competitive of PVE is more comparable to racing to finish a game first, and find the best people to finish the thing first, or something. It's not really the same thing at all. Like I said before... by the logic, ANYTHING is competitive.

Basically, all I'm saying is, is the two things can't really be compared.

"No one should get inherent advantages just because they play longer. It's piss poor design, and most companies know this, and avoid it. "

wow is what 8 years old?wow has been played this way since launch,and pve still plays this way.the longer you play the more points/honor/justice/conquest/gold/mounts/gear/ profession reps/reps ect a player gets.the longer a player plays the more $ blizz gets.wtf dont you get?pve in wow is all about gear and its profession against other players.

spin shit anyway you want but im right.myself and a handful of other posters here on mmo champ said this was a dumb change and its is/was.read the threads,people cant figgure out if pvp gear is best for pvp or pve gear is best.one things for sure,pve is better for pvp then the crafted and honor pvp sets and that = broken.now throw in wpvp and pve gear takes the cake.

i have said this a million time also-wows prime years were in BC,its been down hill since.when wrath started pvp in wow started going to shit with it.

[Otimus]

"No one should get inherent advantages just because they play longer. It's piss poor design, and most companies know this, and avoid it. "

wow is what 8 years old?wow has been played this way since launch,and pve still plays this way.the longer you play the more points/honor/justice/conquest/gold/mounts/gear/ profession reps/reps ect a player gets.the longer a player plays the more $ blizz gets.wtf dont you get?pve in wow is all about gear and its profession against other players.

spin shit anyway you want but im right.myself and a handful of other posters here on mmo champ said this was a dumb change and its is/was.read the threads,people cant figgure out if pvp gear is best for pvp or pve gear is best.one things for sure,pve is better for pvp then the crafted and honor pvp sets and that = broken.now throw in wpvp and pve gear takes the cake.

i have said this a million time also-wows prime years were in BC,its been down hill since.when wrath started pvp in wow started going to shit with it.

What don't you get? The type of competition against PVE players, and the type of competition against PVP players are entirely different things.
I agree with you in so much as PVP gear should always be the best gear, IF gear has to matter as much for PVP, but I just don't think it should, and steps to make it matter less and less are a good thing.

Besides, not everyone engages in competitive PVE. Infact, a very, tiny, tiny portion of the people who even engage in that content do. Because it's not inherently competitive. It's chosen to be competitive by people who want it to be. PVP is by it's nature competitive. I think we're arguing two different things here, or something. Skill should always be the only factor in battles against other human beings, that's all I'm saying. Things that are closer to that goal are good things. It's not perfect not, but it's a start.

[meathead]

What don't you get? The type of competition against PVE players, and the type of competition against PVP players are entirely different things.
I agree with you in so much as PVP gear should always be the best gear, IF gear has to matter as much for PVP, but I just don't think it should, and steps to make it matter less and less are a good thing.

Besides, not everyone engages in competitive PVE. Infact, a very, tiny, tiny portion of the people who even engage in that content do. Because it's not inherently competitive. It's chosen to be competitive by people who want it to be. PVP is by it's nature competitive. I think we're arguing two different things here, or something. Skill should always be the only factor in battles against other human beings, that's all I'm saying. Things that are closer to that goal are good things. It's not perfect not, but it's a start.

gear scaling crap did nothing for skill in pvp.you want skill to matter more in pvp and be less about gear right?thats the problem,gear was not the problem.its op'ed classes,op'ed burst/cc,healing/damage ect.blizz did not fix any of that,they just wanted to get more non pvpers into pvp.hows does that do anything skill wise for the majority of the players that actually pvp?=nothing.

i said many tie the gear change is nothing but smoke and mirrors and that all it is.you want the game to be all about skill great,but it cant be with all the broken shit in wow atm.blizz should have done more to try to fix this shit and not just fuck over pvpers and there gear.are mages still faceroll = yes,why not fix them instead of trying to make non pvpers be able to pvp in pve gear.you see my points?see what i am getting at now?

wow needs gear progression in both pvp and pve because the whole game centers around people improving there toons.how do they improve there toons=by leveling up and getting new gear.like i said above,if blizz wanted to make pvp all about skill there would do much much more "fix mages for example- separate abilities in pvp and pve- and bring back pvp and pve specs" this would do a hell of alot more for balance/skill then gear scaling could ever do.but blizz does not do it,go figure.