Science, the Cosmos and Star Wars

[ghostnet]

I just wanted to have a little discussion about Science, the cosmos and the reality of the universe in which we live in. I find it amazing that we can even partly understand some parts of the universe, through science, and it really makes you wonder. The discoveries science has made, have one way or another benefited the human race, and helped our understanding of the world around us. So much potential, yet it is still somewhat a relatively small community in comparison to say, religion.

I've often thought, if we were to apply our knowledge of science to the greatest extent, to the extent of almost the entire population, either studying, researching or performing experiments and testing theories, where we would turn out? With our whole species somewhat part of the scientific community, sharing ideas and forming hypothesis and keeping religion to the side somewhat of a personal activity that doesn't affect your decisions etc (for example belief in a diety, but not an intervening one), we could have the potential to discover so much in such little time, possibly advance technology at a much faster rate, opening possibilities we would never had thought possible. With our efforts solely concentrated on the advancement of our race and knowledge, we could possibly even, if we wanted to, ( i know at this point in time it sounds silly, but bear with me) recreate say the technology seen in say Star Wars, in reality. Imagine that, the human race dedicated solely to discovery, we could discover technology such as Force fields, massive cruiser ships etc.

I'm only touching on some of the possibilities, and i might have missed a few things (tired atm), but really if you think about it, religion aside (going purely off evidence, which, of course we must if we are to advance) we have no purpose in life. None. There is no known reason to our existence. The only logical and reasonable way we could ever find the answers to the universe and our existence, is to, well, explore the great beyond, create technology great enough for us to do this. Otherwise, what is our purpose? I think we would be too selfish and close-minded to even say we even have a purpose, but if we did, it would be somewhere out there, in space, not here, on earth. If there is a diety, a creator of the universe even, wouldn't finding the answers ourselves, and using our brains to the limit to create such technology that allows us to explore time and space, "prove" ourselves to this "diety". And if there is after all, is no diety, atleast we are making use of our lives and stretching out capabilities to the limit.

So, if you lost me halfway, or i'm not making much sense, the initial question and discussion point is simply: Do you think if we concentrated solely on advancing technology would be a good thing? Would you like to live in a world like i discussed? What do you think the meaning of life is, and do you think science could some day answer that currently unanswerable question? And do you disagree with anything i said?

Thanks for reading, hope a discussion starts :P Don't want to start a religion vs non-belief argument, in my text i'm assuming that religion doesn't play a part in all this.

[Deleted]

I honestly believe the only way the human race will advance to the levels that you state "star wars levels", is if an alien species invades Earth. Nothing unites humans like war. The problem is we always war against each other. If we had something else to war against, something else to take out our ingrained aggression on, we'd unite as a species and our technology level would fly through the roof.

[ghostnet]

I honestly believe the only way the human race will advance to the levels that you state "star wars levels", is if an alien species invades Earth. Nothing unites humans like war. The problem is we always war against each other. If we had something else to war against, something else to take out our ingrained aggression on, we'd unite as a species and our technology level would fly through the roof.

That's a good point, i always thought if we were able to construct a large enough stereo (lol), that was so large and orbited the earth, and played music (lol), the signals would be picked up from far away (any alien race with technology great enough to travel to us, should be able to pick up those sound waves through space?)

[Deleted]

I just wanted to have a little discussion about Science, the cosmos and the reality of the universe in which we live in. I find it amazing that we can even partly understand some parts of the universe, through science, and it really makes you wonder. The discoveries science has made, have one way or another benefited the human race, and helped our understanding of the world around us. So much potential, yet it is still somewhat a relatively small community in comparison to say, religion.

I've often thought, if we were to apply our knowledge of science to the greatest extent, to the extent of almost the entire population, either studying, researching or performing experiments and testing theories, where we would turn out? With our whole species somewhat part of the scientific community, sharing ideas and forming hypothesis and keeping religion to the side somewhat of a personal activity that doesn't affect your decisions etc (for example belief in a diety, but not an intervening one), we could have the potential to discover so much in such little time, possibly advance technology at a much faster rate, opening possibilities we would never had thought possible. With our efforts solely concentrated on the advancement of our race and knowledge, we could possibly even, if we wanted to, ( i know at this point in time it sounds silly, but bear with me) recreate say the technology seen in say Star Wars, in reality. Imagine that, the human race dedicated solely to discovery, we could discover technology such as Force fields, massive cruiser ships etc.

I'm only touching on some of the possibilities, and i might have missed a few things (tired atm), but really if you think about it, religion aside (going purely off evidence, which, of course we must if we are to advance) we have no purpose in life. None. There is no known reason to our existence. The only logical and reasonable way we could ever find the answers to the universe and our existence, is to, well, explore the great beyond, create technology great enough for us to do this. Otherwise, what is our purpose? I think we would be too selfish and close-minded to even say we even have a purpose, but if we did, it would be somewhere out there, in space, not here, on earth. If there is a diety, a creator of the universe even, wouldn't finding the answers ourselves, and using our brains to the limit to create such technology that allows us to explore time and space, "prove" ourselves to this "diety". And if there is after all, is no diety, atleast we are making use of our lives and stretching out capabilities to the limit.

So, if you lost me halfway, or i'm not making much sense, the initial question and discussion point is simply: Do you think if we concentrated solely on advancing technology would be a good thing? Would you like to live in a world like i discussed? What do you think the meaning of life is, and do you think science could some day answer that currently unanswerable question? And do you disagree with anything i said?

Thanks for reading, hope a discussion starts :P Don't want to start a religion vs non-belief argument, in my text i'm assuming that religion doesn't play a part in all this.

advancement in technology is something that we actually do very fast. The problem is it doesn't hit the general populace fast enough as companies want to milk the cash cow for all its worth. look at the rollout of the i5/7/9 when intel already have a 24chip and have had for a long time now.
you make more money if you increment in 5/7/9 though...

same with a lot of things. technological advancement is suppressed by those who want to make big money from it. if that was to vanish then I think we would live in a much better world.
in the same way though a large part of the global population have no understanding of basic mathematics so giving them advanced technology requiring good education and levels of knowledge would result in more issues than good.

until we have a global education system that works and people get this idea of "I don't need to learn that it wont affect me in my life" mentality we will continue to progress at a very slow rate.
Not to mention humans as a species are still very primitive with a constant ever increasing greed and displays of violence.

There is a lot more that we as humans need to do to advance our own cultures before we should be trusted with any kind of serious complex space age technology.

[Elegiac]

No, I don't. Technological improvements are awesome, but there still needs to be effort paid towards public assistance, etc.

[Deleted]

I honestly believe the only way the human race will advance to the levels that you state "star wars levels", is if an alien species invades Earth. Nothing unites humans like war. The problem is we always war against each other. If we had something else to war against, something else to take out our ingrained aggression on, we'd unite as a species and our technology level would fly through the roof.

an alien race would probably look at us with pity and think.. "nah not worth it they will kill themselves sooner or later"

[ghostnet]

advancement in technology is something that we actually do very fast. The problem is it doesn't hit the general populace fast enough as companies want to milk the cash cow for all its worth. look at the rollout of the i5/7/9 when intel already have a 24chip and have had for a long time now.
you make more money if you increment in 5/7/9 though...

same with a lot of things. technological advancement is suppressed by those who want to make big money from it. if that was to vanish then I think we would live in a much better world.
in the same way though a large part of the global population have no understanding of basic mathematics so giving them advanced technology requiring good education and levels of knowledge would result in more issues than good.

until we have a global education system that works and people get this idea of "I don't need to learn that it wont affect me in my life" mentality we will continue to progress at a very slow rate.
Not to mention humans as a species are still very primitive with a constant ever increasing greed and displays of violence.

There is a lot more that we as humans need to do to advance our own cultures before we should be trusted with any kind of serious complex space age technology.

Yes i agree if it were to vanish there would be no reason to hold back a discovery from the public. And yeah the education system would need to be immensely upgraded, and some major economical measured would have to be in place (pointless jobs like cleaning and retail, that serve no real purpose to the advancements would have to disappear). I mean to achieve this sort of stuff in a short time period would require almost slave labor science, everyone working for the human race as a whole rather than for personal gain. Organised religion would have to almost vanish, and there would be many other things that would need to be changed in order to achieve such high goals. But i mean, if we don't explore and try and find out the reasoning for existence (the obvious goal in life), what point is there? Try and pleasure ourselves as much as possible until we die, and comfort this realization by believing in an afterlife?

[Deleted]

A big step in the right direction would be eliminating food and energy costs. Fusion energy (or better) and replicators from star trek.

[Elegiac]

A big step in the right direction would be eliminating food and energy costs. Fusion energy (or better) and replicators from star trek.

Ugh, do not leave me in a room with a replicator. I'd be having chips (French fries) constantly.

[Faroth]

You're basically saying that you don't want a science vs religion argument but you keep saying if religion were wiped out, we would advance more quickly.

Since you mention Star Wars, I'd be remiss to not be a bit cheeky and make a quote....

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Honestly, completely devoid of any religion, the question of what's the point of existence becomes rather simple. There isn't any. That's what science is based on. There is no point, no point to anything. Things just happen by random chance and that's all there is to it. There was no point to the universe being created by a big bang, it just happened. What's the point of advancing science? Nothing more than our own curiosity, but in the grand scheme of things, if you believe that death is the big end and there's just non-existence afterwards then.....no, there is no point to any of it.

Sure, you can argue that the point is to leave a better place behind, to be remembered.........but you don't exist. You're dead. And since there was no grand purpose to begin with, there was no point to the contributions you made either other than making them for the sake of doing it.

That said, yes, if we devoted more of our energies to improving ourselves, and improving our society through understanding, research, exploration, etc. instead of, say Dancing with the Stars and American Idol, we would probably advance much quicker.

Man's great advances in technology such as television and video games have led to a great delay in mankind's advances in technology.

[Avada Kedavra]

-snip-

I think the OP is trying to say that religion in its entirety is holding us back. Far too many constraints are placed on society in the name of religion. Stem Cell research is a good example. The #1 argument is we are not supposed to play "God", but with no religion, there is no "God" to be played. Religion has/and will always halt the progression of humanity in the name of moral high-ground.

[Deletedaccount1]

I think the OP is trying to say that religion in its entirety is holding us back. Far too many constraints are placed on society in the name of religion. Stem Cell research is a good example. The #1 argument is we are not supposed to play "God", but with no religion, there is no "God" to be played. Religion has/and will always halt the progression of humanity in the name of moral high-ground.

As long as there is no organized religion. It only holds us back as long as we allow religious institutions to have power in matters that don't concern them.

[Felya]

an alien race would probably look at us with pity and think.. "nah not worth it they will kill themselves sooner or later"

Judging by every species on earth, an advanced alien race would most likley look to exploit us. Thinking earth is doomed regardless, just allows for moral ambiguity, if Aliens have morals.

---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 02:16 PM ----------

As long as there is no organized religion. It only holds us back as long as we allow religious institutions to have power in matters that don't concern them.

Intend is the only thing that separates a science fiction writer and a prophet.

[MMKing]

I just wanted to have a little discussion about Science, the cosmos and the reality of the universe in which we live in. I find it amazing that we can even partly understand some parts of the universe, through science, and it really makes you wonder. The discoveries science has made, have one way or another benefited the human race, and helped our understanding of the world around us. So much potential, yet it is still somewhat a relatively small community in comparison to say, religion.

I've often thought, if we were to apply our knowledge of science to the greatest extent, to the extent of almost the entire population, either studying, researching or performing experiments and testing theories, where we would turn out? With our whole species somewhat part of the scientific community, sharing ideas and forming hypothesis and keeping religion to the side somewhat of a personal activity that doesn't affect your decisions etc (for example belief in a diety, but not an intervening one), we could have the potential to discover so much in such little time, possibly advance technology at a much faster rate, opening possibilities we would never had thought possible. With our efforts solely concentrated on the advancement of our race and knowledge, we could possibly even, if we wanted to, ( i know at this point in time it sounds silly, but bear with me) recreate say the technology seen in say Star Wars, in reality. Imagine that, the human race dedicated solely to discovery, we could discover technology such as Force fields, massive cruiser ships etc.

I'm only touching on some of the possibilities, and i might have missed a few things (tired atm), but really if you think about it, religion aside (going purely off evidence, which, of course we must if we are to advance) we have no purpose in life. None. There is no known reason to our existence. The only logical and reasonable way we could ever find the answers to the universe and our existence, is to, well, explore the great beyond, create technology great enough for us to do this. Otherwise, what is our purpose? I think we would be too selfish and close-minded to even say we even have a purpose, but if we did, it would be somewhere out there, in space, not here, on earth. If there is a diety, a creator of the universe even, wouldn't finding the answers ourselves, and using our brains to the limit to create such technology that allows us to explore time and space, "prove" ourselves to this "diety". And if there is after all, is no diety, atleast we are making use of our lives and stretching out capabilities to the limit.

So, if you lost me halfway, or i'm not making much sense, the initial question and discussion point is simply: Do you think if we concentrated solely on advancing technology would be a good thing? Would you like to live in a world like i discussed? What do you think the meaning of life is, and do you think science could some day answer that currently unanswerable question? And do you disagree with anything i said?

Thanks for reading, hope a discussion starts :P Don't want to start a religion vs non-belief argument, in my text i'm assuming that religion doesn't play a part in all this.

Science is best done by people who understands the principles of science. Simply removing religion, and employing more people as scientists will not increase our scientific progress by a significant amount. I think it would even be the other way around, our scientific progress would slow down by a noticeable amount.

How many times have you seen people using extremely flawed arguments in order to further their case? 5 year old logic (also known as fallacies) that draws false conclusions, straw man logic, red herring argumentation and many more.

Arguing from fallacy: Scientists at CERN LHC (large Hydron Colider) discovers particles traveling faster than the speed of light. The scientists report the findings, stressing that they are double and triple checking the results. Other scientists accept this and await further research into the findings. But the Media automatically assumes this to be 100% fact, in turn claiming Einstein's famous e=mc2 is false because of this.

I have so little faith in the majority of the human population that i think this is a possibility first in 150-250 years. If we remove most of religion within 40-50 years, massively increase the focus on educating the population and increase scientific funding.

[Deleted]

I've often thought, if we were to apply our knowledge of science to the greatest extent, to the extent of almost the entire population, either studying, researching or performing experiments and testing theories, where we would turn out? With our whole species somewhat part of the scientific community, sharing ideas and forming hypothesis and keeping religion to the side somewhat of a personal activity that doesn't affect your decisions etc (for example belief in a diety, but not an intervening one), we could have the potential to discover so much in such little time, possibly advance technology at a much faster rate, opening possibilities we would never had thought possible.

What do you think the internet is? To bad its mostly used by people to post al their bullshit and cats (including me, catmemes are my secret sin)

[Executia]

As long as we humans MILK ourselves into ruin, we won't go anywhere.
Food, Energy and Housing cost have to be completely eliminated to free a human and it's mind to actually do something progressing.

Different school levels are also hurting, not helping. We have to stop to categorize humanity in different capability sections and just
give everyone insight on everything ( and no, the internet is not a great place for misinformed and brainwashed people to pull themselves
out of the media pollution, in the last years the internet just replaced the "old" TV and radio )

Because all we do now is running the wheel to hold ourselves up in the water like half dead fish.

[crzyman007]

Watch this vid if you wish to learn anything useful about who you truly are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m4cLJ9b2T8

And to those who say the soul/afterlife does not exist because there is no proof. Remember that many years ago people believed that the earth was flat because there was no way to prove otherwise yet it has always been round. The point being is just because we can't prove something doesn't mean it's not real, It might just mean that we are not technologically advanced enough to prove it yet and yes many religious or spiritual terms can be explained in scientific terms.

[ghostnet]

You're basically saying that you don't want a science vs religion argument but you keep saying if religion were wiped out, we would advance more quickly.

Since you mention Star Wars, I'd be remiss to not be a bit cheeky and make a quote....

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

Honestly, completely devoid of any religion, the question of what's the point of existence becomes rather simple. There isn't any. That's what science is based on. There is no point, no point to anything. Things just happen by random chance and that's all there is to it. There was no point to the universe being created by a big bang, it just happened. What's the point of advancing science? Nothing more than our own curiosity, but in the grand scheme of things, if you believe that death is the big end and there's just non-existence afterwards then.....no, there is no point to any of it.

Sure, you can argue that the point is to leave a better place behind, to be remembered.........but you don't exist. You're dead. And since there was no grand purpose to begin with, there was no point to the contributions you made either other than making them for the sake of doing it.

That said, yes, if we devoted more of our energies to improving ourselves, and improving our society through understanding, research, exploration, etc. instead of, say Dancing with the Stars and American Idol, we would probably advance much quicker.

Man's great advances in technology such as television and video games have led to a great delay in mankind's advances in technology.

That's all it is though, isn't it? Nothing more than curiosity. But even though there is no point to doing it, the simple fact of accomplishing something so massive such as space travel fast enough to travel galaxy to galaxy is amazing, and gives a point to living that actually moves the human race forward into one day POSSIBLY actually finding a point to it all, you feel me? We are not ever going to find out the mysteries of the universe that could ANSWER questions like the meaning of life if we are sitting idle assuming we know the answers already (again, not trying to go into a religious debate, but it seems to always rise it's ugly head again). What i'm saying essentially is, even though there is no known reason for even advancing ourselves as a species science can provide us with a motive to stride towards, spirituality that comes from understanding the universe we live in, and could eventually wield all the answers. And my speculation is just yeah. if we were to concentrate PURELY on science and discovery, what are the possibilities!

---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 01:41 AM ----------

Watch this vid if you wish to learn anything useful about who you truly are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m4cLJ9b2T8

And to those who say the soul/afterlife does not exist because there is no proof. Remember that many years ago people believed that the earth was flat because there was no way to prove otherwise yet it has always been round. The point being is just because we can't prove something doesn't mean it's not real, It might just mean that we are not technologically advanced enough to prove it yet and yes many religious or spiritual terms can be explained in scientific terms.

Yes but the thing about science is that we change our minds, we will believe something as fact until better evidence comes along from research and discovery. Again i don't want this to be a debate, I've stated that i'm assuming in my text that religion in this futuristic speculation is not included for the simple fact that believing without evidence doesn't get us anywhere which contradicts the whole thing.

[crzyman007]

I also like this video and found it quite hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7KcPNiworbo

Talks about reality :P

[crzyman007]

Yes but the thing about science is that we change our minds, we will believe something as fact until better evidence comes along from research and discovery. Again i don't want this to be a debate, I've stated that i'm assuming in my text that religion in this futuristic speculation is not included for the simple fact that believing without evidence doesn't get us anywhere which contradicts the whole thing.

If you'd watch the vid I linked you would find some evidence. The problem is that scientific people only look at things from a science perspective and our science is very limited. Sometimes you gotta think outside the box so that your perception of what cosmic science is can be expanded.