[Frost] Haste Caps & You - Quick Guide

[Deleted]

there's a great chance that the Dev haven't finish working on mage to make it for the first PTR build. Or simply, they won't change a lot of things (like in 5.2/5.3) but I don't think so.

[Deleted]

75% is likely somewhat of a design decission. 100% simply makes little sense - if it were so, they could just make the 4pc passively change FFB. 75% guarantees that its a common procc, but still one you enjoy getting. I'm not certain they'll keep the number, but I'm quite sure it won't be 100%.

Overall, there are simply to many issues within the game and too few class changes right now to assume that we're anywhere close to finished with the patchnotes yet. Fire will need to be toned down in some way, Frost will need at least a bandaid if not some major overhaul. Our level 90 talents are in shambles. For now, let's try and make sure we can simulate RPPM-mechanics and haste-values correctly and see what Blizzard throws at us next

[Deleted]

As i first read the news, i thought of the Frostboulder being RPPM.

[Xirrohon]

Am I the only that feels RPPM is going to go away?

[Keiyra]

Am I the only that feels RPPM is going to go away?

Yes, seeing as how there is little/no evidence to support such a statement. (You'll have to wait till a full list of enchants, trinkets, weapons, metas etc comes out for 5.4 before you can even hint at RPPM going away)

[Methusula]

Yes, seeing as how there is little/no evidence to support such a statement. (You'll have to wait till a full list of enchants, trinkets, weapons, metas etc comes out for 5.4 before you can even hint at RPPM going away)

Yeah, they just started using the system and have been increasingly utilizing it. Why would anyone conclude it is going away? They seem to really like randomness and for whatever reason hold to the belief that it adds to the fun factor. I couldn't disagree more, but I hold no hope this system is going away any time soon.

[Deleted]

Yeah, they just started using the system and have been increasingly utilizing it. Why would anyone conclude it is going away? They seem to really like randomness and for whatever reason hold to the belief that it adds to the fun factor. I couldn't disagree more, but I hold no hope this system is going away any time soon.

It was a long times they wanted to proc to be less predictable. A 45 ICD isn't really different than an On-use

[Xirrohon]

The reason why I mention RPPM going away is because it places haste above everything for pretty much all classes. Traditionally Blizz doesnt like that. I think the high chance to proc at the start of a fight will remain but I feel like they are going to change how RPPM functions. I read a qoute from a Blue a couple months back about how they were still working on RPPM but maybe im thinking of something else.

[Deleted]

The reason why I mention RPPM going away is because it places haste above everything for pretty much all classes.

Above all is false. It pushes haste thats right. But lets look at mages: Fire dont get Haste because of RPPM. Frost has haste as primary stat before RPPM. It brings it up a little more thats right. Discussing 2xHaste>1xInt u find enough in this thread.
Arcane goes mastery or haste. The same as before RPPM. So overall it doesn't change.
I think RPPM is a good idea. It brings another thing to perform and rumbles the classes a little bit. Beside that things like the meta let blizzard balance the game a little bit better.
Ofc is not the holy grail but its something.

[Mastamage]

It was a long times they wanted to proc to be less predictable. A 45 ICD isn't really different than an On-use

Except with Frost we have ridiculous uptime on our RPPM items so it's pretty predictable for us. Granted, this doesn't apply to every class .

[Deleted]

I dont see its predictable. Sometimes it proccs in streaks sometimes not. Sometime u wont to cast a perfect AT but u didn't get any proc in 10 sec.
Predictable is u look at ICD-Timer ABC and see in 10 sec i get a proc.
With RPPM all u can do is to say: I could get a proc in the next 10 sec with a chance of x%.

[Deleted]

Well, that is a silly point Tomathan. Being able to say "In the next 10 seconds I will get a procc with a chance of x%" is the very definition of predictability. Even moreso when the x we are talking about here is approaching 100% rapidly. Haste increases the chance of getting a procc quite a lot. The higher it gets, the more predictable it becomes.

From a design standpoint, the real issue here is that it's reaching a point where, as a Frost Mage, you are more or less expecting to have your proccs happen a lot, which is against their stated goal of having them be a bit less predictable - just as mastamage said.


On a sidenote: Lets all just shed a tear of joy in anticipation of ditching our current 2pc. Alter Time, this devourer of buffs and souls, has too long been terrorizing us with the goddamn 2pc. Once we lose the bonus, we maybe get to use the spell a bit more relaxed again, meaning you don't feel like that much of an ass when your meta doesn't procc when you want it to ^^

[Polarthief]

Above all is false. It pushes haste thats right. But lets look at mages: Fire dont get Haste because of RPPM. Frost has haste as primary stat before RPPM. It brings it up a little more thats right. Discussing 2xHaste>1xInt u find enough in this thread.
Arcane goes mastery or haste. The same as before RPPM. So overall it doesn't change.
I think RPPM is a good idea. It brings another thing to perform and rumbles the classes a little bit. Beside that things like the meta let blizzard balance the game a little bit better.
Ofc is not the holy grail but its something.

Frost however now gems Haste over Int because of RPPM.

All 3 specs of Warlock are now Haste > Mastery due to RPPM.

This is actually a BAD thing when trinkets have such a pull on our stats.

---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 01:54 PM ----------

Akraen, have you tested your Haste theory on the PTR yet? Both the set bonuses GREATLY support your technique.

Increased FFBs = Increased FoFs
Increased FFBs = More Icy Boulders (can't wait for the non-placeholder number)

[Decimation2g]

I'm not very familiar with the RPPM, what trinkets, or are all trinkets now RPPM?

[Deleted]

I´m really getting angry by looking at the frontpage and GCs unqualified and customer-unfriendly statements. Did someone ever tweeted him, that frost is just not fun anymore? Bad scaling is not fun? With that high amout of haste, it is just awful gameplay and the spec already lack way over 10% damage compared to the other two!!!

Gems and enchants not working on PTR right now, but with this amout of haste, the new T16 2p is already hard to play sometimes, can´t image to play it with ~15% more haste like on live, or even with the new gear in tier 16, with what? 75 - 80% haste? Does this guy ever think before he tweets?

A customer-unfriendly behavior like this, would be unthinkable in Germany. This guy would suffering one of the biggest shitstorms ever.


Quote GC: "We only care if..."

Damn, this guy is impertinent!


So many bad response to the level 90 tiers, to RPPM and what not and they posting and tweeting of reason why this or that must be funny or "more fun" for us. Actually incredible

[Deleted]

I will say I'm amazed by GC reply (and when I say "amazed", it's for polite).

[Mastamage]

I´m really getting angry by looking at the frontpage and GCs unqualified and customer-unfriendly statements. Did someone ever tweeted him, that frost is just not fun anymore? Bad scaling is not fun? With that high amout of haste, it is just awful gameplay and the spec already lack way over 10% damage compared to the other two!!!

Gems and enchants not working on PTR right now, but with this amout of haste, the new T16 2p is already hard to play sometimes, can´t image to play it with ~15% more haste like on live, or even with the new gear in tier 16, with what? 75 - 80% haste? Does this guy ever think before he tweets?

A customer-unfriendly behavior like this, would be unthinkable in Germany. This guy would suffering one of the biggest shitstorms ever.


Quote GC: "We only care if..."

Damn, this guy is impertinent!


So many bad response to the level 90 tiers, to RPPM and what not and they posting and tweeting of reason why this or that must be funny or "more fun" for us. Actually incredible

Funny you should ask: myself, Nathyiel, Polarthief AND Lissanna have tweeted today (pretty angrily too) about frost and how the scaling is bad and I brought up that we will already be capped on TWO STATS when the patch goes live if nothing is changed.

5-10% threshold? Fuck that (pardon my language). I see already that everything we suggest will go in one ear and out the other. Idk about you guys but I'd trust the people that play the spec religiously (us) over some napkin math that doesn't work in-game (blizzard).

Nothing is fun about capping your toon's stats without heroic gear, it's not even fun WITH heroic gear. The constant denial of poor scaling is horrendous. JUST LOOK AT THE CLASS! A god damn monkey could figure it out faster than GC. I'm to the point that I'm done testing and giving up on submitting test results and suggestions since none of it seems to matter.

[Boxedwaffle]

Funny you should ask: myself, Nathyiel, Polarthief AND Lissanna have tweeted today (pretty angrily too) about frost and how the scaling is bad and I brought up that we will already be capped on TWO STATS when the patch goes live if nothing is changed.

5-10% threshold? Fuck that (pardon my language). I see already that everything we suggest will go in one ear and out the other. Idk about you guys but I'd trust the people that play the spec religiously (us) over some napkin math that doesn't work in-game (blizzard).

Nothing is fun about capping your toon's stats without heroic gear, it's not even fun WITH heroic gear. The constant denial of poor scaling is horrendous. JUST LOOK AT THE CLASS! A god damn monkey could figure it out faster than GC. I'm to the point that I'm done testing and giving up on submitting test results and suggestions since none of it seems to matter.

Amen, man. It's a damn shame that Blizzard refuses to do anything until it starts to impact their revenue (see the 5.2, "I'm quitting because mages suck" outcry). I guess the only hope is that frost mages like us will be able to illuminate our problems on the PTR during boss testing. While I won't be on the PTR as much as I did last time, I'll try to fraps as much as possible. Save a frost mage today: Raise frost-capping awareness!

[Deleted]

Amen, man. It's a damn shame that Blizzard refuses to do anything until it starts to impact their revenue (see the 5.2, "I'm quitting because mages suck" outcry). I guess the only hope is that frost mages like us will be able to illuminate our problems on the PTR during boss testing. While I won't be on the PTR as much as I did last time, I'll try to fraps as much as possible. Save a frost mage today: Raise frost-capping awareness!

Lissanna have said that it take ~1 years for report from community to be taken into account.
the began of the L90 problem have been reported a little less than 1 years ago.
We began reporting scaling problem (frost, fire, ...) a few month ago. 6.0 will be in 9 month if things still go like actually. So hope isn't lost for 6.0 !!!!

And Xpac is where big change can happen.

[pkm]

Im still gearing up my mage and should i be following this? Is this what frost dps is tied to ?