Paladin 6.0 Revamp Idea

[Clash the DK]

There is something missing with the Paladin playstyle. I can't really put my finger on it exactly. Things feel a bit too formulaic to me. I suppose that has to do with the fact that we are so dependent on our rotational abilities having cooldowns. The MoP version of Holy Power is definitely better than what we had in Cata. But, I think it could be better.

So, it is my opinion that we need to change exactly how Holy Power works. We have plenty of other classes that utilize the combo point system and they do it much better. I would like to see Holy Power changed to rechargeable units. This would be similar to Death Knight runes. So, each Paladin spec would have exactly 3 charges of Holy Power that regenerate upon use. Below is an example of how Retribution specifically might be reorganized to work with these changes:






RETRIBUTION

Crusader Strike --- (No Cooldown) --- (45% Chance to proc new Art of War) (AoW = Increase the damage of the next Templar's Verdict by X%)
Hammer of the Righteous --- (4.5 Sec Cooldown)
Templar's Verdict --- (10.5 Sec Cooldown)

Judgment --- (1 HP) --- (Would now apply Inquisition for 10-15 seconds)
Exorcism --- (1 HP) --- (More damage than Judgment)
Hammer of Wrath --- (1 HP) --- (More damage than Exorcism)
Divine Storm --- (1 HP)
Word of Glory --- (1 HP)




NOTES:

~ There are a couple different ways that this whole concept could work and be successful. But, this is the best that I've come up with so far.

~ Damage of abilities would be adjusted. I'm not suggesting changes that would under or overpower the class. With that being said, TV would hit very hard. :P

~ Any ability that does pure Holy damage would cost Holy Power. That makes sense to me.

~ The biggest positive about this particular design would be that we would not be hitting a different ability every single GCD. We would be able to string together the same ability at times such as Crusader Strike, Exorcism, Divine Storm and Hammer of Wrath. That would create a bit more dynamic playstyle.

~ I'm suggesting the removal of the cooldown on Crusader Strike. I don't mind having something to push every GCD, especially with the 1.5 GCD of Paladins. Also, within this particular design, I think it would be interesting to fish for AoW procs to empower Templar's Verdict.

~ I personally would like to see all melee specs have their GCD start at 1.5 and then lowered through Haste. That would make this particular design work even better. But, the idea is not limited to just Paladins.

~ Tier75 would obviously need to be reworked.

[Blacklion]

i liked how ret was back in WotLK, the CD on abilities like DS and CS reworked a bit, but having to " fish " for something is quite annoying and dps ruiner, i wouldn't really want something SUPER RNG to be the BEST, no1 would really

and for the recharge thing, why? having to wait for a charge is just annoying, go play DK or an energy class or something where u wait, it doesn't feel that fun really, earning the charge by using something is, to me, less messy and feels more reliable, that's just my personal opinion, gl

[wickedbastard]

Tbh i prefer the holy power system how it is now any day over the dk rune system.
Feels like i have more control over it.

[Nyaldee]

Don't like the idea at all, i'm totally fine with how holy power system works, how haste interracts with hp generators and with spec generally.

[Deleted]

Really doesn't sound like a good idea to me, and especially the notion of stringing together the same ability again and again? Don't see that as dynamic.
Current system is working, maybe just a few tweaks who knows ^^

[Revvo]

I think you just want to be a warlock.

[Piitz]

i liked how ret was back in WotLK, the CD on abilities like DS and CS reworked a bit, but having to " fish " for something is quite annoying and dps ruiner, i wouldn't really want something SUPER RNG to be the BEST, no1 would really

Wotlk rotation was just faceroll, atleast during ICC.

[Clash the DK]

i liked how ret was back in WotLK, the CD on abilities like DS and CS reworked a bit, but having to " fish " for something is quite annoying and dps ruiner, i wouldn't really want something SUPER RNG to be the BEST, no1 would really

and for the recharge thing, why? having to wait for a charge is just annoying, go play DK or an energy class or something where u wait, it doesn't feel that fun really, earning the charge by using something is, to me, less messy and feels more reliable, that's just my personal opinion, gl

The idea was to make Crusader Strike have more importance than just a filler ability. You wouldn't even need to "fish" regularly because you would have almost a 50% chance to get what you need out of using it only once during a 10 second timeframe. But if you do get unlucky, then you have to make a decision whether to use that gcd on CS or Exorcism before TV comes off cooldown. Whether to gamble or not in that situation would really depend on how much damage the proposed Art of War gave to TV.

Yes, the Holy Power would recharge. But, that doesn't mean we are sitting around waiting to use abilities. With Crusader Strike having no cooldown, you would always have something to push. The gameplay would revolve around which order you use your abilities. Whereas right now, we don't have any choice in the matter. We hit the ability off cooldown most of the time. And that feels rather static to me.

---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 07:50 AM ----------

Tbh i prefer the holy power system how it is now any day over the dk rune system.
Feels like i have more control over it.

DKs have an incredible amount of RNG. It's really ridiculous at low amounts of Haste. But what I am proposing would still offer control of our resources unlike the DK rune system. I understand if you like the combo system though. It's a staple of the rpg genre. I just don't really think it fits Paladins myself.

---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 07:53 AM ----------

Really doesn't sound like a good idea to me, and especially the notion of stringing together the same ability again and again? Don't see that as dynamic.
Current system is working, maybe just a few tweaks who knows ^^

Being able to throw down 2-3 Divine Storms in a row on a regular basis sounds good to me. I miss using that ability more often.

[Veliane]

Being able to throw down 2-3 Divine Storms in a row on a regular basis sounds good to me. I miss using that ability more often.

If you have an ability that is very powerful, in order to increase the number of times you can use it, it has to be made less significant.

And I don't think many would like to do Divine Storm more often (more work) for the same reward in the long run.


This is why keeping it powerful while having talents that are all competitive in their own right (but also become better if you know the situation you're up against to make the best use out of them) is far more compelling than having it just because.

[Nairobi]

If you have an ability that is very powerful, in order to increase the number of times you can use it, it has to be made less significant.

And I don't think many would like to do Divine Storm more often (more work) for the same reward in the long run.


This is why keeping it powerful while having talents that are all competitive in their own right (but also become better if you know the situation you're up against to make the best use out of them) is far more compelling than having it just because.

Fully agree, but it seems like he is one of the folks GC was referencing, WRT liking the ability as a core rotational thing. I don't think it's so much that people like the ability, as they like the flashy graphic effect...which I never understood, personally. I don't get the complaints that "Ugh, I hate my ridiculously strong ability X because it's not as flashy as less powerful Y". Fuck that, I give 2 shits about flash; I'll swing a broom handle in a cloth twill set if it hits like a truck.

On a related note, though, in one of his less than insightful tweets, GC mentioned that they were aware of the plight of melee. Basically, all the ranged "penalties" of old (like poor mobility or DPS on the move) have been relaxed or removed, while melee is still hamstrung by positional requirements, short range, and ground effect/survial liabilities. They indicated that they wanted to keep ranged mobile because turreting isn't fun, but that they wanted to have a "niche" for melee as well, with suggestions like superior cleaving as an option. Now, Ret has traditionally gotten the shaft when it comes to anything related to the melee toolkit, BUT, this could open the door for a revival of Ret AOE to the WotLK days of "rotational usage" of DS, Cons, and HW (or equivalent new abilities).

[Tauren]

1second cs reminds me of being a rogue

[Clash the DK]

If you have an ability that is very powerful, in order to increase the number of times you can use it, it has to be made less significant.

And I don't think many would like to do Divine Storm more often (more work) for the same reward in the long run.


This is why keeping it powerful while having talents that are all competitive in their own right (but also become better if you know the situation you're up against to make the best use out of them) is far more compelling than having it just because.

It seems to me that Paladin cleave/AOE damage is lagging behind. So, it doesn't have to mean that the ability would be weak. There is room for improvement.

---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 04:43 PM ----------

Fully agree, but it seems like he is one of the folks GC was referencing, WRT liking the ability as a core rotational thing. I don't think it's so much that people like the ability, as they like the flashy graphic effect...which I never understood, personally. I don't get the complaints that "Ugh, I hate my ridiculously strong ability X because it's not as flashy as less powerful Y". Fuck that, I give 2 shits about flash; I'll swing a broom handle in a cloth twill set if it hits like a truck.

On a related note, though, in one of his less than insightful tweets, GC mentioned that they were aware of the plight of melee. Basically, all the ranged "penalties" of old (like poor mobility or DPS on the move) have been relaxed or removed, while melee is still hamstrung by positional requirements, short range, and ground effect/survial liabilities. They indicated that they wanted to keep ranged mobile because turreting isn't fun, but that they wanted to have a "niche" for melee as well, with suggestions like superior cleaving as an option. Now, Ret has traditionally gotten the shaft when it comes to anything related to the melee toolkit, BUT, this could open the door for a revival of Ret AOE to the WotLK days of "rotational usage" of DS, Cons, and HW (or equivalent new abilities).

I like the idea of using Divine Storm more in the right situations. But to clarify, I don't think it should be optimal to use in your single target rotation. I like having the need to hit different buttons depending on the amount of targets I'm facing. But, the graphic effect is nice. And it sure is a lot cooler than Hammer of the Righteous.

The possible new "niche" for melee that GC tweeted about was very interesting. Personally, I think that's kind of weird, but nothing gamebreaking. And your post reminded me how much I miss Consecration as well. I would much rather have that than HoR... AND it would fit much better into my design as a HP consumer instead of just another cooldown ability.

---------- Post added 2013-06-04 at 04:47 PM ----------

1second cs reminds me of being a rogue

Nah, the GCD is 1.5 seconds.

[Riavan]

I really just don't like the move that you have to continually keep up to do normal damage, I feel the same way about savage roar on druids.
It's really unfun.

I don't mind holy power at all, I think it's neat and simple.

[Clash the DK]

I really just don't like the move that you have to continually keep up to do normal damage, I feel the same way about savage roar on druids.
It's really unfun.

I don't mind holy power at all, I think it's neat and simple.

Yeah, I agree. Inquisition isn't very much fun. That's why I rolled Inquisition into Judgment with my proposed design. It serves it's purpose very well in that manner.

As I talked about earlier, the Combo Point System works very well. I just think Paladins deserve their own unique system. We have Rogues, Monks and Druids all using a similar combo system. I just think that's too many.

Ironically, I wish that Rogues played a little more similar to Paladins. By that, I mean most of a Paladins combo points are used on one finisher. That does feel good. Opposed to using your combos on keeping up a bunch of buffs/debuffs. Granted, we still have to deal with Inquisition atm. But, Rogues have it much worse. I would rather see Rogues put up their poisons/bleeds using combo point generators so that they could use their finisher more often. But, that's a whole different topic.