Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Teye]

Another stealth nerf; Shadowflame no longer stacks 3 times, caps at 2 now. I saw this one coming, but its still incredibly annoying on top of a half dozen other nerfs this week, a lot of which were stealth. I find stealth nerfs insulting, I don't know why.

[Jessicka]

Another stealth nerf; Shadowflame no longer stacks 3 times, caps at 2 now. I saw this one coming, but its still incredibly annoying on top of a half dozen other nerfs this week, a lot of which were stealth. I find stealth nerfs insulting, I don't know why.

It's not so much insulting as it is annoying to find out something doesn't work the way you thought it worked some days or weeks later because the change was never reported. Same thing happened in 5.1 I ended up making a whole thread of Warlock patch notes because the official ones were so horrendously incomplete.

It's something they know they need to work on improving, but it just seems to be one of those things that has always been bad, continues to be bad and probably always will be bad (and my personal perception is that Warlocks get the most neglect probably because I don't pay much attention to other classes' :P ) :\

[Teye]

It's something they know they need to work on improving, but it just seems to be one of those things that has always been bad, continues to be bad and probably always will be bad (and my personal perception is that Warlocks get the most neglect probably because I don't pay much attention to other classes' :P ) :\

Paladins had a period of time during the first few weeks of ToT where they were getting multiple stealth nerfs and buffs hotfixed in several times a week. They were pretty outraged, but an old guidlie who went from Warlock to Prot Paladin said it was nothing new for him, since he was accustomed to being a Warlock. -.-

[whi]

on ptr, if i just spam incinerate and spam fel flame, fel flame seems to be more dps. Will it be part of our rotation once backdraft is down?

Way too early, but atm on ptr fel flaming and using your backdraft charges on chaos bolts sounds like the optimal rotation.

To quote the man:

"In case you have forgotten since the previous PTR, we focus on mechanic changes first and number changes once those have settled.

More useful feedback at this stage "I like/dislike the new version of the talent." Less useful "ZOMG 30% NERF!

Two examples: We will compensate hunters for Readiness and paladins for Eternal Flame, should those changes stick beyond a PTR build or so.

Set bonus numbers in particular are very stand in. I wouldn't spend effort trying to math / sim their values quite yet."

[xskarma]

It's not so much insulting as it is annoying to find out something doesn't work the way you thought it worked some days or weeks later because the change was never reported.

I agree, it's the fact they don't report the changes, not even in the full patchnotes once the patch goes live that irks me. Seems these days you need to confront GC on twitter to find out about the nitty gritty or you'll wait for official confirmation forever.

[Teye]

Way too early, but atm on ptr fel flaming and using your backdraft charges on chaos bolts sounds like the optimal rotation.

Mana is all I need to say.

Edit: Just tested it, Mana isn't actually an issue. Testing the dps now. If its higher, there's no way it goes live that way.

[Deleted]

Another stealth nerf; Shadowflame no longer stacks 3 times, caps at 2 now. I saw this one coming, but its still incredibly annoying on top of a half dozen other nerfs this week, a lot of which were stealth. I find stealth nerfs insulting, I don't know why.

well, with the change to the t16 setbonuses, you wouldnt really ever have a chance to put it at 3 stacks, i tried for like 15 minutes, trying the 2 stack,metaweave thing and then spam ToC, and 9 times out of 10, the 2 stacks would have fallen off b4 you would get 1 from ToC, so i wouldnt be too fussed about the 2 stack thing atleast unless ofc they increase proc chance again.

also, the threat dump and usage debuff from gateway are idd one and the same, so the threat dump also lasts 60 secs, it can certainly be abused a bit then, if there are bosses that decreases tank threat(like flamegor) this could be a good thing to use, to avoid healing aggro etc. but generally, it will be annoying to only be able to use it once every 60 secs.

[Deleted]

Edit: Just tested it, Mana isn't actually an issue. Testing the dps now. If its higher, there's no way it goes live that way.

The obvious fix is to give +50% damage to Incinerate.

[Teye]

The obvious fix is to give +50% damage to Incinerate.

Agreed!

It is actually a dps increase though. Incoming Fel Flame nerf.

[luckydevours]

Another stealth nerf; Shadowflame no longer stacks 3 times, caps at 2 now. I saw this one coming, but its still incredibly annoying on top of a half dozen other nerfs this week, a lot of which were stealth. I find stealth nerfs insulting, I don't know why.

Shadowflame stacking and entering Meta afterwards to buff its damage have always been reasons that kept me from playing Demo because it just felt so clumsy and not very adaptive. What about removing SF stacking and instead allow SF being affected by Pandemic like all other warlock dots?

[Jessicka]

The obvious fix is to give +50% damage to Incinerate.

Seems likely, they need to bump the damage somewhere to compensate for the lost ember generation from RoF.

[Teye]

well, with the change to the t16 setbonuses, you wouldnt really ever have a chance to put it at 3 stacks, i tried for like 15 minutes, trying the 2 stack,metaweave thing and then spam ToC, and 9 times out of 10, the 2 stacks would have fallen off b4 you would get 1 from ToC, so i wouldnt be too fussed about the 2 stack thing atleast unless ofc they increase proc chance again.

Um, I tested for like three minutes this morning and would have gotten 5 or 6 three stacks without the nerf. >_>

Seems likely, they need to bump the damage somewhere to compensate for the lost ember generation from RoF.

But guys, Green Fire is no longer new and shiny. Destruction can fall back into obscurity again, and no one will notice.

-.-

[Jessicka]

Agreed!

It is actually a dps increase though. Incoming Fel Flame nerf.

Test that for Demo? 13% buff should put it ahead of Shadow Bolt's 10% from some time ago.

[luckydevours]

Agreed!

It is actually a dps increase though. Incoming Fel Flame nerf.

Since they are already planning to buff Destro damage to make up for having less embers caused by the RoF change increasing the damage of Incinerate so it is always ahead of FF seems logical to me to ... but since we are dealing with Blizzard how knows?

[Hexotic]

the soul leech nerf and gateway nerf will make getting green fire a living hell for people who dont have it yet.

[Netherspark]

I'm wondering about stat priority for Destruction in 5.4. Since Rain of Fire is no longer being used on single targets, would the value of Haste go down?

[xskarma]

Agreed!

It is actually a dps increase though. Incoming Fel Flame nerf.

Doesn't Destro have Fel Flame do more damage then the other 2 specs? A modifier to it somewhere? They could simply change that to balance it better, while leaving it untouched for the other specs.

[luckydevours]

Test that for Demo? 13% buff should put it ahead of Shadow Bolt's 10% from some time ago.

They are almost equal in terms of damage per execution time, FF being ahead by 2.5% or so.

[Teye]

Test that for Demo? 13% buff should put it ahead of Shadow Bolt's 10% from some time ago.

Maybe without the 4 set. With the 4 set, the chance to proc HoG will outweigh it. I'll test it without the 4 set now.

[xskarma]

Doesn't Destro have Fel Flame do more damage then the other 2 specs? A modifier to it somewhere? They could simply change that to balance it better, while leaving it untouched for the other specs.

Quoting myself to add, that I just realised the modifier I have in mind is most likely Mastery, which would be quite tricky to balance probably. So might not be as easy as I thought.