Resto changes and new things in 5.4

[Soraka]

Please reread the patch notes
They nerfed the output by 40% on top of 33% slower charge up rate.

You didn't fully read the patch notes, you didn't try It in PTR. Maybe you should try it and read it first?
Comments base on patch notes or PTR experience is more useful than pure imagination.

And it does matter if it takes 1 minute to charge. Did you try using shroom on live server?
Try and compare it in the PTR server. It's just a lot weaker in PTR.

At least on the patch notes I'm reading, the initial heal portion is the same since they tripled it but made it one mushroom:

Wild Mushroom: Bloom healing and SP scaling was tripled

And the cap from overhealing is essentially unchanged. On live, each mushroom is capped at 67% of your health so:
67% * 3 = 201%
With the one mushroom the patchnotes say:

Grow a magical mushroom with 5 health at the target ally's location. After 6 sec, the mushroom will become invisible. The mushroom grows larger as it accumulates healing power from 100% of overhealing done by your Rejuvenation, up to a maximum of 200% of your health in bonus healing. Recasting Wild Mushroom will move the Mushroom without losing this accumulated healing. Wild Mushroom: Bloom can consume your Mushroom to heal nearby allies. Only 1 mushroom can be placed at a time. Can be cast in Tree of Life Form, Moonkin Form. Druid - Restoration Spec. 40 yd range. Instant.

So as far as I can tell, it went from 201% of our health to 200% of our health as the charge cap. Looks like they did nerf the charge time but imo they charge really really fast on live so it's not a huge deal. I'd gladly trade increased charge time for 1 GCD planting and the ability to move charged mushrooms around. The ability to move it makes them strong on every fight.

Also looks like the charge rate nerf is a bit more than 33%. As far as I can tell the overall rate went from 150% to 100% of overhealing and the rejuv overhealing no longer counts Naturalist or Mastery: Harmony on the rejuv overhealing but still doesn't affect the overall capped heal.

[Myrrar]

-snip-

1. We're probably losing the RG glyph. They're still claiming to put out the efflo glyph which will be significantly better. No more 100%(basically) crit and no more always LS proc.

2. CW is a hot. Each tick does the same amount of healing RG non-crit does(4k less) with the chance to crit. Being a hot it also means for the next 6 second, every 2 seconds, you are casting a non-crit RG or 2 1/2 RJ ticks while being able to cast something else as it's healing.

3. CW is less than 1/2 the mana of RG with no cast time.


If they are expecting us to use it it absolutely needs to be buffed, it's not 'strong' at all really, at least not compared to real tank CDs. It's still going to be significantly better than YG on any fight where large single target damage does out. Again, YG heals 1 person for 5% every 5 seconds. That's only useful if no other talent in the tree is useful. The entire tier is shit, at least one of the talents needs to be changed.

-snip-

This has been covered earlier in the thread.

Wild Mushroom: Bloom healing and SP scaling was tripled<--yes, but instead of 3 we will have only one shroom, so the scaling doesn't really changed.
"accumulates healing power from 100% of overhealing done by your Rejuvenation" <--in 5.3 it is 66.6% X 3= 150%, a 33% nerf.

"Wild Mushroom: Bloom is no longer capable of critical strikes, and accumulates overhealing done by Rejuvenation by 100%, down from 150%. Overhealing bonus no longer benefits from Naturalist or Mastery: Harmony."

I have 20% crit, 38% mastery buffed, so in 5.3 the bloom heal for 100%*1.1*1.2*1.38=182% of the overheal stored. In 5.4 it will be 100%

[Whydrood]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9377568084
YG and CW feedback thread. I don't know if the devs read these forums (I'm sure they browse them), but I am pretty sure they read the PTR forums.

[halfawake]

A few changes I would like to see. Genesis should be off the GCD (it feels clunky and gcd locked as it is), shrooms should be freely placeable OR they should stay on the target you put them on if they are going to remain placeable via target, I was going to say something else but I forgot.

Guess a few other notes... our smite spam feels a bit weak but could work for low damage phases, not seeing anyone taking this when hotw and nv are better for any serious healing. The changes look strong on paper but leave us in a similar position to where we were, high over healing, gcd locked and still not as good as other healers although good if they can't make it to raid I suppose. Genesis could fix a lot of our burst problems but it would be nice if it affected wild growth as well (being off the gcd would make this realistic). The play style is too centered around rejuv still imo.

[Checksmix]

DoC is pretty crap. Wrath had its' mana cost increase and the damage is just too low for you to do any ACTUAL healing with it. Either have it heal for 120% of the damage or increase the damage of wrath by 50% instead of 20.

Of course the play style is focused around rejuvenation!? It's our primary healing spell. On almost any given fight it's going to be the largest chunk of your healing. Save for maybe heroic Lei Shen when mushrooms fill it. Saying our play style is to centered around rejuvenation is like saying MW are too focused around renewing mists. That's the entire point of the class.

Agree with Genesis being off the GCD. But it would make it rediculous over powered. 2 GCDs mean a 140k instant heal on the last Rej target with spell timer of around 2s and being able to move.

---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 09:09 AM ----------

what if YG had charges? Up to say 5. every 10s or so it charged 5s of your health and you could use it to either heal yourself or other people? Consumed all stacks and the healing is split between you and one other target so that no overhealing is ever dealt to you (if the other target would be topped off it takes the over healing). Could replace renewal and we could get a 3rd actually good talent.

[Myrrar]

Both set bonuses had their numbers tweaked.

2 piece not has an 8% chance to proc up from 5%.
4 piece's proc now lasts 15 seconds up from 12.

It seems like this may mean they plan to keep the sets and just tweak the numbers which is sad considering how many people have said on the PTR forums how much they dislike it.

[Trubo]

Both set bonuses had their numbers tweaked.

2 piece not has an 8% chance to proc up from 5%.
4 piece's proc now lasts 15 seconds up from 12.

It seems like this may mean they plan to keep the sets and just tweak the numbers which is sad considering how many people have said on the PTR forums how much they dislike it.

I'm fine with the 2-set's effect but its proc rate is still too low. 4-set is still meh unless Living Seed finally becomes an absorb.

[Deleted]

Duration of Sage Mender from 2set is increased to 1min and now consumes the buff when a healing touch is used, instead of being able to spam it.

[Myrrar]

Duration of Sage Mender from 2set is increased to 1min and now consumes the buff when a healing touch is used, instead of being able to spam it.

Confirmed on PTR?


*Just want to make sure before I add it to the op =)*

[Deleted]

Yes, tested on PTR

[Cheroba]

Duration of Sage Mender from 2set is increased to 1min and now consumes the buff when a healing touch is used, instead of being able to spam it.

Awesome! I'm glad they took some of our feedback into consideration. That should make the 2 pc bonus work very nicely. I'd definitely use HT more this way.

[Gufkys]

I'm fine with the 2-set's effect but its proc rate is still too low. 4-set is still meh unless Living Seed finally becomes an absorb.

If i'm not mistaken, it was said that living seed now stacks, and acts as an absorb.

May have been in another mmo-c thread

[NightZero88]

If i'm not mistaken, it was said that living seed now stacks, and acts as an absorb.

May have been in another mmo-c thread

Does not work like an absorb but does stack up to 60 or 80% of our total HP. Still not that useful considering you'll likely never get it stacked that high considering all the damage that goes out. If you can predict a big hit coming to a raid member though you could potentially stack up a big LS but that'd be a waste of mana IMO when you could just heal after the hit.

[Deleted]

Does not work like an absorb but does stack up to 60 or 80% of our total HP. Still not that useful considering you'll likely never get it stacked that high considering all the damage that goes out. If you can predict a big hit coming to a raid member though you could potentially stack up a big LS but that'd be a waste of mana IMO when you could just heal after the hit.

problem is that LS wont proc and heal from big AOE attacks tho.

[NightZero88]

problem is that LS wont proc and heal from big AOE attacks tho.

I believe it procs from spell damage and physical attacks which should cover any damage type no? I'm not on the PTR so I don't know but I thought people reported it coming from spell damage as well.

[Checksmix]

I believe it procs from spell damage and physical attacks which should cover any damage type no? I'm not on the PTR so I don't know but I thought people reported it coming from spell damage as well.

They changed it to work like PoM and proc off any damage. It's nice now but just not as good as a instant cast spell that bounces to 5 other players and has double the duration.

[Dallamain]

In regards to nature's swiftness and the 2 piece, will casting NS consume the stacks of the 2 piece? If so then thats lame, causing the mp5 on cd to decrease. I kind of feel that this may be the case, but am not sure.
As for shrooms, the thing that i don't like is that they have to be cast on the target and not just on any location. So we can't prep an area for a future stack if needed (ie rampage on magera). This means that, like before, our aoe heals have to be reactionary through SM and shrooms, where as before would could be a bit more proactive. Also, we can't ramp up this effect pre pull where ever we want it to be at unless a) the boss doesn't face pull, or b) the spot is out of the bosses face pull range. Now, the only way that I can see that we can pre charge in a location of future stacking is if the druid himself, or one individual goes over to the spot where the stacking will occur, which I guess is doable for the druid, but still an annoyance though.
as for the 4 piece, I'm going to assume that it works with tree and regrowth spam? If so then doing the two of those, along with the new change to Natures vigil? can we say OOOOOPPPPPP??? Spamming those doing splash dmg and splash heals along with throwing reactionary absorbs on them? AND being totally mobile? Cant wait for it.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 09:38 PM ----------

If i remember correctly CW is a free heal, whereas regrowth is a bit costly. Now, granted in 5.4 that may not be an issue anyway. It does need to be used on CD to be effective. I am liking the idea behind the new talent though if it is passive (which it seems to be judging by the linked tool tip). Basically a walking passive heal? Is there a spec that wouldn't take that?

---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 01:07 AM ----------

If i remember correctly CW is a free heal, whereas regrowth is a bit costly. Now, granted in 5.4 that may not be an issue anyway. It does need to be used on CD to be effective. I am liking the idea behind the new talent though if it is passive (which it seems to be judging by the linked tool tip). Basically a walking passive heal? Is there a spec that wouldn't take that?

[Deleted]

CW is not free, it's a bout the same cost as a rejuv.
And living seeds aren't absorbs, the fact that now they stack and proc from magical damage will only increase their overhealing. Unless the raid member you healed with your regrowth is still at low health after it, or the next attack he takes is a big one, and not a simple aoe tick, you'll get about 80-90% overhealing form your LS.

[Whydrood]

In regards to nature's swiftness and the 2 piece, will casting NS consume the stacks of the 2 piece? If so then thats lame, causing the mp5 on cd to decrease. I kind of feel that this may be the case, but am not sure.

No, if NS is active, the spell has no mana cost. The 2 piece only reduces the mana cost of HT (even if that reduction is 100%), it does not make it "free". Two different things. The free cast of NS will always come before the reduced mana cost of HT. Although with the 2 piece, it is probably going to be better to bind NS to RG instead of HT. Not sure if it consumes OOC procs though, I assume that it won't at 5 stacks, but can't say for sure.

As for shrooms, the thing that i don't like is that they have to be cast on the target and not just on any location. So we can't prep an area for a future stack if needed (ie rampage on magera). This means that, like before, our aoe heals have to be reactionary through SM and shrooms, where as before would could be a bit more proactive. Also, we can't ramp up this effect pre pull where ever we want it to be at unless a) the boss doesn't face pull, or b) the spot is out of the bosses face pull range. Now, the only way that I can see that we can pre charge in a location of future stacking is if the druid himself, or one individual goes over to the spot where the stacking will occur, which I guess is doable for the druid, but still an annoyance though.

Also not true. In fact, if you cast a mushroom when you initially start trash in a raid, you can technically keep it active as long as you refresh it at least once before the 5 minute duration is done. For instance if you cast it on Jin'Rokh and it fills up but you never use it, you can recast it and bring it all the way to Lei Shen as long as you refresh it. The only time it will reset is if you out range it (works like any other totem) or if you die.


---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 09:38 PM ----------

If i remember correctly CW is a free heal, whereas regrowth is a bit costly. Now, granted in 5.4 that may not be an issue anyway. It does need to be used on CD to be effective. I am liking the idea behind the new talent though if it is passive (which it seems to be judging by the linked tool tip). Basically a walking passive heal? Is there a spec that wouldn't take that?

---------- Post added 2013-06-29 at 01:07 AM ----------

If i remember correctly CW is a free heal, whereas regrowth is a bit costly. Now, granted in 5.4 that may not be an issue anyway. It does need to be used on CD to be effective. I am liking the idea behind the new talent though if it is passive (which it seems to be judging by the linked tool tip). Basically a walking passive heal? Is there a spec that wouldn't take that?

You are incorrect, CW costs 14.8% of your base mana (rejuv costs 14.5%).

[stormgust]

Looking at the 5.4 trinkets, I fear it will be 5.1/5.2 all over again. That cd reduction trinket is so heavily skewed towards disc/hpala (and possible MW with TFT) that we'll just fall behind once again once 5.4 hits. Why? By the looks of it, they're only adding base spells onto the trinket, which leaves us considerably lagging behind, as the only "strong"/utility cd's we have baseline are: Tranq/Ironbark/Innervate. They have to go as far as to add self defence cd's as; Barkskin/Might of Ursoc.

Other classes can be easily filled by adding spells directly impacting their main roles performance:
Disc gets: Barrier, Spirit Shell(add in 4t16 for complete dominance), Pain Sup, Inner focus, shadowfiend/hymn (a lot of mana)
Pala gets: GoAK, Devo Aura, AV, HoP (usefulness depends on wether it still removes debuffs), Divine Plea,
Shaman gets: 2x Ele (+10% heal each for 45/60 sec), spiritwalkers grace (add in 4t16) and possible (likely): Ascendence, Spirit Link, Mana Tide.

Holy and MW (depending on how strong they value TFT?) are in a similar place to us.

If they want that trinket to be not skewed heavily towards other healing classes, they need to add talent(tiers) to classes lacking at a baseline level. For rdruids I'd suggest that we get: Tranq/Ironbark/Innervate/[Swiftmend(SotF)/Tree/FoN]/Nature's Swiftness/ (Roar?)