Resto changes and new things in 5.4

[Thalur]

How much does the mushroom Efflorescence heal for though, same as the Swiftmend version? Does it heal from the healing the mushroom will deal instead? Will that mean leaving the mushroom unpopped and fully stacked be better and if we recast it somewhere else be worse? It sounds extremely interesting and I can't wait to play with it though.

I'm reading this as "whenever your mushroom is standing somewhere, it has Efflo around it", and should be as strong as the normal one. This would be huge, and fits the moving mushrooms even more (move the shroom whenever the group moves so you always have Efflo at the group, and can pop it for more healing).

The Innervate change is bad, we'll be back to being a mana battery for healers that need more mana (e.g. discs). Getting more spirit will mean a) we don't need our innervate ourselves any more, and b) we give the priest more mana back. Don't like it.

[Puri]

While the basic changes are extremely good and very likely to be nerfed, the set boni of the tier sets are more than underwhelming:

First it forces to use ironbark as soon as it's ready, and not for its intended purpose to have a cooldown for badly injured players or when a foreseeable large hit will take place.
And the 4 piece bonus is even weaker: If there is much raid damage coming in, covering the raid with rejuvs still yields much more healing than using single target cast heals. And if there isn't any constant damage coming in, most of the living seeds will expire unused (or the player will be fully healed anyhow by other healers).

[Floopa]

The problem I say with Wrath working like Atonement is that it doesn't fit into any of the Druid toolkit.

Seems like they're trying to get more Druids to go crit because MWs and Boomkins prefer crit and haste over mastery. That's a pretty scumbag move though if you ask me.

Expecting set bonuses to get changed across the board. The MW set bonus is completely ridiculous compared to every other healer bonus.

[insanedruid]

DoC is still kinda lame for resto. They increased the mana cost of wrath by 50%...
It could be useful in some boss fight though.

[Deleted]

Don't see alot of talk about druid atonement heal/dpsing, am i the only one that loves it?
Before druids had problems topping the meters cause of pala/disc priests. Now if for example healing with a paladin in 10m, we can let him heal more and we can sit on dpsing!

Fook ye, druid just got so much better.

[AvatarM]

Don't see alot of talk about druid atonement heal/dpsing, am i the only one that loves it?
Before druids had problems topping the meters cause of pala/disc priests. Now if for example healing with a paladin in 10m, we can let him heal more and we can sit on dpsing!

Fook ye, druid just got so much better.

I really doubt that this changes go live the way the are now on this ptr build. Resto druid will be god mode, meanly in 10 man environment. 100% raid cover with reju + genesis is REALLY OP. Genesis + Mushroom is REALLY OP. Atonement for low damage phases with FoN = 2 Smart heal while you just DPS and heal at the same time.

About tier bonus, Rdruids will simple keep 4 T15 heroic with upgrades until T16 Heroic. Like Top Rdruid did with t14. T16 Will probably go to DPS first due OP bonus.

IF this changes goes live, it will be good to discuss the changes on our itemization, Probably gemmimg for Mastery will not be a good, Int will probably be better then master again due Wrath escale with int for Dream of Cenarius. AND crit will be more atractive since Wrath crits = more DoC heals. if im not mistake crit is already 0.9 mastery in itemization valor. At Last, but no at least, our next haste Break Point will be much more atractive for a lot of reasons. With it, you will gain +1 HT for Treants, +1 tick with WG and more DoC heals.

[Deleted]

hmm, there are still going to be a lot of changes before the patch. But I like the new mushrooms, makes them much more usable. Innervate is a bit meh, but its not too bad. The tier bonuses, not so keen about the 2pc, 4pc could be interesting. Its all in the testing though, until its been tried in real environments it might be amazing, or not!

Overall, I am encouraged by the looks of these changes.

[AvatarM]

It was me lol

[Myrrar]

The problem I say with Wrath working like Atonement is that it doesn't fit into any of the Druid toolkit.

Seems like they're trying to get more Druids to go crit because MWs and Boomkins prefer crit and haste over mastery. That's a pretty scumbag move though if you ask me.

Expecting set bonuses to get changed across the board. The MW set bonus is completely ridiculous compared to every other healer bonus.

IF crit was so bad we took lower ilvl gear to get rid of it I'd say pushing crit is fine. We aren't in that place though. Crit is fine, it's just not AS good as mastery. I don't really understand the pushing crit changes when it come to balance. It's just bad and going to cause a lot of problems. I guess it's the lazy mans way out of balancing gear stats since it's our 'worst' stat and boomkins best. Either way, poor choice.




Really though, a lot of these changes are extremely redundant.

Hated old mastery due to X, Y, and Z so they changed it. Re-adding new mechanics with the same exact problem as X, Y, and Z.

Absorbs were incredibly OP at different points since they became a popular raid wide mechanic. It's taken them tier after tier to nerf and tweak them for balance, adding raid wide absorbs for us.

Hate druids RJ blanketing, nerf it to the ground. Buff it back with tier pieces/mana/natural gear progression/other things, it's OP again. Shit, nerf it to the ground. Now they are starting to balance it back up so WHEN it's a good time to blanket you do, but it's not always best. Annnnd adding a change that makes RJ blanketing for a lot of progression the best course of action.

Make shitastic haste caps we need to hit which screws all our stat values, adds gimmickey crap mechanics to bring crit back up.

Buff shrooms so they're really fantastic in 10s and 25s, 1/3 the area you can now cover with them. Hey, we need those GCDs for more RJs!

Don't like HS totem, get rid of it. Give druids their own HS aura.


The changes aren't all bad or good for the class, they're just honestly....kind of stupid. They're bringing back a lot of old problems and setting themselves up for a balancing nightmare. I for one am sick of the balance problems. It's great when were really amazing, but you always know the insane over nerfs are just on the horizon. Besides the fact that they removed our niche and have changed the 'best' way we should be played a dozen or so times every expansion.

In the end, it's PTR and everything is going to be changed and tweaked multiple times. We'll just have to see how it plays out and test a ton so we can give true number proven feedback.

copy paste from elitist jerks? or you? http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130799-...ria_5_3_a/p46/

Well, on EJ the person's chars name is Avatar, his name is AvatarM. Safe to say it's him. =]

[Darktooth]

So NS no more?.. Ha Ha I can't see that happening, its been my "oh shit button" for me since TBC. I wonder how this affects PVP.

And what replaced it makes little sense to me, i know its instant is there a cooldown?.

I have never tired out the other talents Renewal and CW(leaning towards this) anyone know how they are? (Both in PVe PVP)

[Xegor]

They didn't remove NS they made it a baseline resto ability.

[Darktooth]

Oh OK i see it now. Thanks Xegor
Which is so cool but still sucks for those who aren't Resto.

[Keiyra]

Some of the changes seem really nice, cant wait to try em out.

1 Shroom, keeps bonus healing when moved, drop at player target, awesome. However, dropping mastery and crit from shrooms is ridiculous. Talk about poorly scaling with gear (Int and stamina only).

The tier 2pc bonus is weird too, an output CD attached to a defensive/tank CD? Very odd placement.
4pc doesn't seem that stellar either, chance on a hot crit to get 80% seeds on RG or HT(which barely gets used). That still doesn't address the fact that Seed has major problems, like not triggering from all damage sources, making it rather weak on any non-tank player.
Tier seems like a big ole back of meh, weaksauce.

[insanedruid]

Some of the changes seem really nice, cant wait to try em out.

1 Shroom, keeps bonus healing when moved, drop at player target, awesome. However, dropping mastery and crit from shrooms is ridiculous. Talk about poorly scaling with gear (Int and stamina only).

The tier 2pc bonus is weird too, an output CD attached to a defensive/tank CD? Very odd placement.
4pc doesn't seem that stellar either, chance on a hot crit to get 80% seeds on RG or HT(which barely gets used). That still doesn't address the fact that Seed has major problems, like not triggering from all damage sources, making it rather weak on any non-tank player.
Tier seems like a big ole back of meh, weaksauce.

dropping mastery/crit from bonus heal by shrooms only. The base part should still scale with everything.
And the bonus part doesn't scale with int.

For tier 2-piece, I will argue that the time you use a defensive cd is also the time you need more healing.
And for tier 4-piece not much of our healing is done by cast time spells so it's kind of bad...

[Keiyra]

dropping mastery/crit from bonus heal by shrooms only. The base part should still scale with everything.

Went back and re-read it. You are right that only the Bonus Overhealing no longer scales with mastery. So the baseline still scales with mastery, but that's still quite a nerf. And from the way its worded it wont crit at all - so not even the baseline healing from the shroom will scale with crit.

Blue Post

Wild Mushroom: Bloom is no longer capable of critical strikes, and accumulates overhealing done by Rejuvenation by 100%, down from 150%. Overhealing bonus no longer benefits from Naturalist or Mastery: Harmony.

So the whole thing loses crit, and the overheal bonus loses Naturalist and Mastery. That's a sizable nerf. Blargh. At least it'll be easier/quicker to place and move.

[insanedruid]

Went back and re-read it. You are right that only the Bonus Overhealing no longer scales with mastery. So the baseline still scales with mastery, but that's still quite a nerf. And from the way its worded it wont crit at all - so not even the baseline healing from the shroom will scale with crit.

Blue Post

So the whole thing loses crit, and the overheal bonus loses Naturalist and Mastery. That's a sizable nerf. Blargh. At least it'll be easier/quicker to place and move.

Sure it's a sizable nerf, like a 40% reduction.
Assuming you have 20% crit and 38% mastery buffed.
The based reduced by 20%(crit chance). The bonus part was 1X1.1*1.38*1.2 = ~1.8 and would change to 1.
Just hope that they will change shroom to prioritize player. So much is wasted on healing pets like water elementals.

[Whydrood]

Honestly, I gotta say trading in 4 GCD's + placement time for 2 GCD's seems to be worth the nerfs they made to shrooms. As it is now, I had one proc a crit for 1.4 million healing in a single heal. Thats not counting the other 100-400k non crit heals from the 3 shrooms, the problem with such large heals is all they really lead to is either a ton of overhealing (usually about anywhere from 70-90% of my wild mushroom heals are over heals) or missed chances. I think getting rid of crit healing is a good change, although I am not quite sure how I like the slower ramp up time. I do however hope they increase the radius of the bloom a bit more though. At least enough to reach melee if I plant it on a tank or a tank if I plant it on melee.

As far as innervate, I can't say I am a fan, however I understand why they did it. As it stands now I am dropping most of my spirit for either haste or mastery and hovering around the 10.5k spirit mark. With T16 gear likely going to be 548+ gear, getting that extra 1.5k spirit isn't going to be too difficult, but it is going to make gearing up for new druids extremely difficult. Take this level 70 resto druid. At level 70 he has 8800 mana, and 253 spirit. Thats ~1250 mana (or 14% of their max mana). That is a 6% nerf to someone who likely isn't going to bother gemming or enchanting just to get more spirit. Then you have the fresh 90's with 8k spirit in blues. Currently with innervate they would get back 60k mana with innervate. With the change, they would only get 40k, which is a 7% nerf. At that ilvl that is a huge nerf, and I honestly don't think the change should stand (at least not for restoration). It also makes getting an innervate from a feral/guardian druid a waste of a GCD as neither of those specs stack much in the way of spirit.

[Gags]

One thing people are forgetting with the changes to shrooms there is also this :

•Wild Mushroom: Bloom healing and SP scaling was tripled.

So yeah mastery and crit no longer affect it but it's raw output has been buffed also.

[insanedruid]

One thing people are forgetting with the changes to shrooms there is also this :

•Wild Mushroom: Bloom healing and SP scaling was tripled.

So yeah mastery and crit no longer affect it but it's raw output has been buffed also.

No, the raw output is severely nerfed.
It is "tripled" becase 3 shrooms are merged into one, and the just the base healing is tripled.

[Gags]

No, the raw output is severely nerfed.
It is "tripled" becase 3 shrooms are merged into one, and the just the base healing is tripled.

Oh yep, my bad, I see it now.