5.4 KJC changes.

[xskarma]

it's annoying to see someone keep answering every god damn argument made and won't change her mind no matter what.

That's called debate. You prove people wrong with proof and arguments, and by refuting the things they state, you don't then start attacking who they are and question their progress when that's not been an issue in the debate.

Furthermore it was a general statement, not just aimed at you or Jessicka. Just trying to prevent things comming to a point where people step over the line and I have to hand out infractions for flaming and trolling.

[forsworn]

Did nobody play locks prior to MoP?

Just curious why everyone feels so entitled to being able to cast while moving and acting like changing it is taking away from the very nature of what made a lock, when prior to this expansion you had to stand and cast like everybody else.

You didnt lose 50% dps while moving as afflic is past expansions.

[Kashii]

But they are.
They are sold as buffs, but in reality, at lvl 90 mages have to chose what kind of limitation/GCD-dump they will introduce in their rotation to remain competitive in DPS.

You don't think talents should modify game play or force you to make choices (aside from picking 1 vs. the others)?

[Jessicka]

Jess, why are you so for this change? I agree it was going to go eventually, but I disagree with doing it mid-expansion. If they are, they need to undo what has been done to ALL warlock specs (not just afflic, but mostly afflic) to put us back to a reasonable place when moving.

I'm sorry, but the 3 afflic dots COMBINED do less damage than the two "fires" from a boomkin. Look up the numbers. More base damage and equal or higher SP modifier on the boomkin dots. Demo isn't much better in terms of dots, but at least they have ToC. Destro is fire mage without scorch now. They lost the instant soul fire proc, which was really the only instant they used. I suppose timing conflags will work "okay" but that's going to screw with the established "standstill" DPS to a ridiculous degree. Also, assuming RoF isn't nerfed to make it no longer attractive in single target (like they've said they want to do), you could use that and felflame if you're out of conflag charges, but that's absurd on our mana.

I can't support a talent that is bad for the game, as long term it'll hurt my enjoyment. Sure, KJC had a 'fun' novelty value back in 5.1, that quickly wore off and I realised how important planning, anticipating and dealing with movement was as a part of the game. KJC hurts that, a lot. What happens when every boss becomes Patchwerk?

Why to get shut now, rather than next expansion? It should have gone in 5.3; but mid tier is harsh. If it was left until 6.0, that would only fuel a 'We had it virtually all this expansion' argument. It's not the direction they want to take the game and it's better to make that clear now, rather than have an expection of a continuing arms race.

Because she's demo and it doesn't really affect her. That's the only logical reason behind her otherwise delusional statements.

My other Warlock I main spec Affliction and I enjoy it; and there's a part of me that wishes for Tri-spec so I could use it more on here. Again though, that's another thing I know would be bad for the game as I'd be compelled to play Demo even less. Horridon/Tortos are Destro fights, I feel bad not playing Demo on them but equally I have no excuse not to.

That and she hasn't "even" killed Lei Shen in normal, not a diss, but it just means she isn't very 'hardcore' and probably doesn't care too much about her damage.

I care a lot about my damage, probably more than you do. I care more about who I play with, however. I've been there and done the whole Heroic thing, but my guild didn't survive 5.1, since then I took a break, took another shot with the Heroic thing, had the most miserable experience in the game there (to the point it was seeping out of the game), took another break and started raiding again this tier with a few friends a couple of nights a week.

[Deleted]

You didnt lose 50% dps while moving as afflic is past expansions.

In the last expansion the relative damage that came from our dots was ALOT higher then it is now, also we had instant shadowbolt procs.
Nowdays if we move without channeling Malific we would be loosing out on dmg in that ballpark.

[Kagecamia]

This twitter post from GC makes me lose a lot of hope.

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...93484706238465

GC: Raid Leader: "Why you keep dying to void zones?" Lock: "Gotta take KJC man."

So because a few people don't know how to use something, they break it for everyone?
There are alot of people that seem to think going away from it will have no impact or just bring back fun to the class. it might but alot of compensation needs to go into our damage to make up for the difference.

One of the commentors on that page looks awfully familiar though.....I wonder who that could be?

[Szarala]

I can't support a talent that is bad for the game, as long term it'll hurt my enjoyment. Sure, KJC had a 'fun' novelty value back in 5.1, that quickly wore off and I realised how important planning, anticipating and dealing with movement was as a part of the game. KJC hurts that, a lot. What happens when every boss becomes Patchwerk?

Bad for the game? I'm gonna have to vehemently disagree there. Is the talent itself counter to the intended "no mandatory talents" design? Yes, I agree there. Is the mechanic itself bad? Quite the opposite. All classes should have the option in some form (and I don't mean all spells all the time.. I've already posted how I think it should work). If every class had spells they could cast on the move, it would actually -improve- encounter design.

[Kashii]

In the last expansion the relative damage that came from our dots was ALOT higher then it is now, also we had instant shadowbolt procs.
Nowdays if we move without channeling Malific we would be loosing out on dmg in that ballpark.

I was actually responding to the mage...sorry if my post was unclear. The change to KJC is huge for Affliction and really an unfair change in gameplay so late in an expansion. Sure people can adapt...but why do this at the 11th hour? Affliction isn't even the highest (PvE) DPS spec for warlocks.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 06:03 PM ----------

I can't support a talent that is bad for the game, as long term it'll hurt my enjoyment. Sure, KJC had a 'fun' novelty value back in 5.1, that quickly wore off and I realised how important planning, anticipating and dealing with movement was as a part of the game. KJC hurts that, a lot. What happens when every boss becomes Patchwerk?

So it's a good change b/c you got bored after 5.1? Spamming Felflame or Lifetap while moving was more compelling to you? You felt like more of a master of your own fate b/c you had to switch to those spells during movement?

I don't get your argument.

[Arctorus]

I don't read the forums much and have only skimmed through some of the threads where people are talking about the KJC nerfs, but I was talking to a warlock in my guild about the changes and it seemed there's an obvious solution to the situation.

What's the point of producing World of Warcraft, from a blizzard developer point of view? It's a business yes, but ultimately it's about providing players with fulfilling, challenging, interesting content that engages.

What's the problem? Caster movement. You gave daddy a taste of medicine and now he wants the whole bottle. Who's to blame us? I'm obviously an Ele shaman primarily and the changes to Lightning bolt movement have been incredibly awesome. I'm a heroic raider by nature and being able to keep up high movement and high dps is fun and interesting. I read a post a while back from GC about how he feels caster movement has gotten out of hand and melee has lost their edge on movement. I feel like this view is antiquated and out of touch with the current heroic raid encounter design. Demands on raid movement have never been higher and I think that's great. The age of raider that always stood in fire seems to be dying out because movement is anticipated and expected. People aren't punished for being both raid aware and focused on dps rotation. It adds a more interesting gameplay relationship than simply having to trade off between either dpsing or moving. It's 2.0, now with more demand on performance.

So rant off, what's my solution? Put daddy on a diet. Everything in moderation right? Give key filler abilities the functionality of being castable on the move. The model? Based on Hunters and Ele Shamans. I can cast Lightning bolt on the move, on top of my instant casts, but if I want to cast my highest damage abilities I have to stop. Lava burst, Chain Lightning, Elemental Blast, etc. Why not use that as a model for every caster class? Shadow Priests can cast Mind Flay on the move, but still need to stop for Vampiric Touch/Mind Sear. Boomkins can cast wrath on the move but have to stop to cast Starsurge/Hurricane/Tranquility. Warlocks can cast Incinerate/Malefic Grasp/Shadow Bolt on the move, but have to stop to cast Immolate/Chaos Bolt/Haunt/etc. Fire mages are already in a good place with Scorch and their movement because it works into their main dps mechanic, could possibly do something similar for Arcane/Frost.

Where does this leave melee? I think there's no need to hold melee's hand. They still have the benefit of pure movement and they offer a style of gameplay that's completely different from ranged. Anyone who's ever played both a melee dps and a ranged dps in a high end raiding situation can tell you that. People will always prefer one or the other and it's not based solely on movement.

With this in mind, will some classes still see a bit more movement than others? Sure, but what's the overall design philosophy? Filler spells can be cast on the move, but the spells that require management for top dps rotations still require planning, attention, and stationary placement. In an environment where we can choose between either an outdated model of raiding of caster turrets and low movement requirements or high movement fights and high mobility, I choose the latter every time. I think it adds greater demand on the raider to perform at a top notch quality rotation while also managing life or death mechanics.

[xskarma]

I can't support a talent that is bad for the game, as long term it'll hurt my enjoyment. Sure, KJC had a 'fun' novelty value back in 5.1, that quickly wore off and I realised how important planning, anticipating and dealing with movement was as a part of the game. KJC hurts that, a lot. What happens when every boss becomes Patchwerk?

Planning, anticipating and dealing with movement is just as much a problem with the snare KJC causes. KJC is just a different way to movement.

I also think the whole GC tweet is just the dumbest thing that man has written. I respect him for the work he does, and the flak he gets, but this "I sit in voidzones cause of KJC hur dur" is just patent bullshit. It's an argument definitely not aimed at warlocks, cause we know full well that if you sit in stuff with KJC you would have sat in it without it as well. Planning movement and paying attention to your environment doesn't suddenly change when you get this talent.

[Deleted]

I can't support a talent that is bad for the game, as long term it'll hurt my enjoyment. Sure, KJC had a 'fun' novelty value back in 5.1, that quickly wore off and I realised how important planning, anticipating and dealing with movement was as a part of the game. KJC hurts that, a lot. What happens when every boss becomes Patchwerk?

So, tell my why it's a bad for game? Is that "it'll hurt me enjoyment" the reason? People say the talent is OP, is it? Hunter can move and do full dps, Ele Shamans can move and do full DPS. Why it's so bad for locks to be able to do that? Is it because mages and shadowpriests can't? Mages are already topping meters with their super good scaling. The way affliction works is built around being able to cast while moving. It's only best spec in 2/13(without Soul Swap abuse) bosses in ToT. So they just can't nerf affliction this hard without buffing other aspects of affliction or do you disagree?

Since affliction damage is 95% based on dots and 5% pet, I just don't see current Fel Flame as valid option while moving. And we already have one talent to help us move, Burning Rush, which i use everytime i have to move. Second usable talent to help us move seems just stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all aboard with KjC nerf, but this can't be the only change. They need to give affliction something better than Fel Flame and castable haunt while moving. Why would i want to cast Haunt while moving when i have to channel MG 8seconds after that haunt. I'm OK not casting anything while moving as far as our damage is balanced around that. It makes no sense to nerf one spec to bottom of the meters because people will then play the other two. Affliction is already least played spec in ToT.

But it's almost sure KjC will be nerfed and they have stated that they will balance warlocks around it and will look into Fel Flame interaction with DoTs. So I will happily wait and see what they come up with as long as they do what they said and not just leave KjC like it is now in PTR's without doing anything else to affliction. I also hope they would just revamp whole 90lvl talent tier, they all seem so unappealing with their uses.

[luckydevours]

I don't read the forums much and have only skimmed through some of the threads where people are talking about the KJC nerfs, but I was talking to a warlock in my guild about the changes and it seemed there's an obvious solution to the situation.

What's the point of producing World of Warcraft, from a blizzard developer point of view? It's a business yes, but ultimately it's about providing players with fulfilling, challenging, interesting content that engages.

What's the problem? Caster movement. You gave daddy a taste of medicine and now he wants the whole bottle. Who's to blame us? I'm obviously an Ele shaman primarily and the changes to Lightning bolt movement have been incredibly awesome. I'm a heroic raider by nature and being able to keep up high movement and high dps is fun and interesting. I read a post a while back from GC about how he feels caster movement has gotten out of hand and melee has lost their edge on movement. I feel like this view is antiquated and out of touch with the current heroic raid encounter design. Demands on raid movement have never been higher and I think that's great. The age of raider that always stood in fire seems to be dying out because movement is anticipated and expected. People aren't punished for being both raid aware and focused on dps rotation. It adds a more interesting gameplay relationship than simply having to trade off between either dpsing or moving. It's 2.0, now with more demand on performance.

So rant off, what's my solution? Put daddy on a diet. Everything in moderation right? Give key filler abilities the functionality of being castable on the move. The model? Based on Hunters and Ele Shamans. I can cast Lightning bolt on the move, on top of my instant casts, but if I want to cast my highest damage abilities I have to stop. Lava burst, Chain Lightning, Elemental Blast, etc. Why not use that as a model for every caster class? Shadow Priests can cast Mind Flay on the move, but still need to stop for Vampiric Touch/Mind Sear. Boomkins can cast wrath on the move but have to stop to cast Starsurge/Hurricane/Tranquility. Warlocks can cast Incinerate/Malefic Grasp/Shadow Bolt on the move, but have to stop to cast Immolate/Chaos Bolt/Haunt/etc. Fire mages are already in a good place with Scorch and their movement because it works into their main dps mechanic, could possibly do something similar for Arcane/Frost.

Where does this leave melee? I think there's no need to hold melee's hand. They still have the benefit of pure movement and they offer a style of gameplay that's completely different from ranged. Anyone who's ever played both a melee dps and a ranged dps in a high end raiding situation can tell you that. People will always prefer one or the other and it's not based solely on movement.

With this in mind, will some classes still see a bit more movement than others? Sure, but what's the overall design philosophy? Filler spells can be cast on the move, but the spells that require management for top dps rotations still require planning, attention, and stationary placement. In an environment where we can choose between either an outdated model of raiding of caster turrets and low movement requirements or high movement fights and high mobility, I choose the latter every time. I think it adds greater demand on the raider to perform at a top notch quality rotation while also managing life or death mechanics.

Why is there no "+rep" button in this forum?

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 08:45 PM ----------

I have a simple question to all those supporters of this change to KjC: How do you think Destruction and Affliction should be compensated so we dont end up with two useless specs in both PvE and PvP and Demonology will be the best and only option in every situation?

[Supernex]

I'm in agreement with those who think MG/Incinerate/SB should be castable on the move, (whether that is through KJC or not).

[Deleted]

Choices have to add something to the gameplay. Level 90 mage talents are just GCD dumps.

I think with Arcane choosing Invocation allows the "burst and regen" playstyle of Cataclysm, whereas Rune of Power gives more of a sustained mana regen playstyle, but Mages have the issue of having their T90 linked to both damage and mana (and in the case of IW: survivability/mitigation). Druids have 2 T90 choices that don't add much if they don't intend to heal (HotW and Natures Vigil). DKs have utility for their T90 (again, like us).

Personally, I don't get this "T90 must be rotation changing" mindset. We've already had a massive rotation overhaul in MoP for all three specs, I don't get why we "must" have additional rotational, passive or cooldown talents at the end of the tier, even when Xel himself said that he chose the utilty based talents for T90 because we'd be balanced around using rotational/cooldown/passive damaging spells on cooldown, while MF/KJC/AV are considered "bonuses" when used correctly, trouble is if 90% of people are using KJC then they aren't bonuses anymore, and you either have to make it baseline*, change it, or remove it.

*For the people saying "Fillers should be on move, important spells stood and casted", it depends on what's filler and what's important. To play Devil's Advocate: Arcane Blast is Arcane's filler, but also it's highest hitter, missiles only have a high priority for being castable without mana, but if it's on the move then Missiles will become very situational in movement fights, additionally, Boomkins will have their rotation sans non-instant Starsurge, which they often get instant, on the move. Firemages would be fully mobile, held back by nothing, and Scorch would become pointless. Hunters would lose one of their biggest "differentiators" which is that they have the mobility of melee and the lack of punishing movement they have, with the range of casters, and that's not counting the problems it may cause for melee in PvP that are snared and feared by casters since our toolset was meant to keep melee away from us without relying on running. And, again, it'll mean that Fel Flame will be pointless. Additionally, it just means that instead of asking a better alternative for KJC's nerf, we get it back without punishment for the majority of the fight, which seems like a buff to me.

[Arctorus]

I'm in agreement with those who think MG/Incinerate/SB should be castable on the move, (whether that is through KJC or not).

I think they need to drop KJC and rework it all together. They don't want mandatory talents and I've seen this nerf coming for a long time, but movement will always overshadow anything else in that tier. The ability to cast filler spells should be baseline for every class, imo.

[Gihelle]

After doing heroic Durumu last night as one of the wallbreakers (as in, MF specced), I didn't really miss KJC a lot as Destro. I was even able to clip in Chaos Bolts during the maze.

I think its only gonna be real bad for Affliction.

[Arrogant Bastard]

That's called debate. You prove people wrong with proof and arguments, and by refuting the things they state, you don't then start attacking who they are and question their progress when that's not been an issue in the debate.

The problem is she is completely avoiding posts that counteract what she is saying. Brusalk posted what is probably the most well reasoned summarisation as to why KjC is so incredibly needed given current Warlock gameplay mechanics and she simply avoided it.

Every time I tell people how completely drastic these changes are, and how they will completely kill Warlocks if the changes go through I get a scoff and a "Psh. You guys need the nerf. KjC is OP." The things that people forget though is how Warlocks are completely and utterly built around casting fillers, and that the vast majority of our damage comes as a consequence of these fillers. Embers for Destro, Fury for Demo, DoT damage for Affliction.

For other classes such as SPriests, their damage comes primarily from DP, which is cast by generating orbs by casting MB on CD. That said, it's a CD. Their damage doesn't come as a result of their "filler", it comes as a result of their secondary resource generators. (Which is why in my guide I refer to "Ember Generators" and "Ember Consumers" and not the normal nomenclature of "filler"). Because our damage comes from our "fillers" and is reliant upon them, losing the ability to cast these fillers means we will not only do no damage while moving, but we will also do much lower damage after movement has stopped.


This affects the 3 specs differently. I'd put the order of impact (from least impacted ("best" if you will), to most impacted ("worst")):
1. Demo
2. Destro
3. Affliction


Demo:
Arguably the least impacted by these changes, all due to a spammable ToC in Meta. Being able to plan periods of movement with Demon form timings allows a great amount of flexibility for Demo. While the changes will for sure nerf Demo, it won't be as bad as Destro/Affliction.


Destro:
I'd rate Destro middle of the pack compared to Demo/Aff. Since they've stated they're removing RoF from the single target rotation in 5.4, Destro now effectively has 2 abilities to use while moving: Fel Flame and Conflag.

Conflag allows at most 2 GCDs worth of movement every 24 seconds. Fel Flame has the cost of not only mana, but also removing any Crit Chance snapshotted on Immo. (This will be a BIG-AS-FUCK deal with next tier's set bonuses giving us Crit chance in all cases).

Removing RoF removes all Destro mobility. Even without the MF change, Destro would be in a bad spot simple due to the KjC change.

Compounding onto this problem is the MF change, which removes all ability for Destro to gain extra embers to gain back some of the damage lost by moving, in situations where both the talent would allow you to hit mobs otherwise unhittable, and that the old talent would allow you that the CD version wouldn't. (EG: Horridon)


Affliction:
I don't really even need to talk about Affliction. Pretty much all of Affliction's damage comes directly from channeling. Not being able to move while channeling guts the spec and will easily be the worst off with the KjC change.

Additionally, his post does not cover the fact that quite of a large portion enjoy being able to cast and move. This is the way it should be and more ranged should be able to do it, not less. It does not break the game when Hunters can fully dps on the move, it is not game breaking for Warlocks to do it either. But, if we must nerf this ability which I still have not been convinced that it should be done then it should be handled like Elemental Shamans. Give us filler on the run.

[Jessicka]

Bad for the game? I'm gonna have to vehemently disagree there. Is the talent itself counter to the intended "no mandatory talents" design? Yes, I agree there. Is the mechanic itself bad? Quite the opposite. All classes should have the option in some form (and I don't mean all spells all the time.. I've already posted how I think it should work). If every class had spells they could cast on the move, it would actually -improve- encounter design.

That comes down to homogenisation. I addressed why it was bad for the game some pages ago:-

How does it effect me? Three ways:

1) It creates an expectation to use that talent. That's not what talents are for; they're choices based on preference and situation. KJC removes that choice until MF is going to be better, or if you can really step your game up substantially that the extra damage from AV will outweigh the losses from movement. Players aren't going to do the latter, so KJC becomes default and you're wrong not to use it.

2) It hurts other, less mobile casters where RLs take the Warlock because they're more mobile and can deal more damage as a result.

3) Many, many of the fundamental mechanics of the game are based on the premise that ranged are less mobile than melee. Allowing ranged to be mobile breaks down those fundamental principals and causes issues right through from PvE encounter mechanics to PvP and the very core individual class ability designs.

Lastly, they gave use Fel Flame in Cataclysm to offer us more mobility. KJC as a passive is outperforming the skilled use of instants, including Fel Flame for movement. Passive should never, ever outperform active abilities.

In addition to that; the talent itself is a binary choice between, ostensibly '1, Fel Flame + Convention old school movement' OR 2, KJC. Such a binary choice is never going to work, because one or the other will always be the correct choice. We already know that from 5.0, when 1 was correct, and since then 2 has been correct. It's a dead end in design.

So it's a good change b/c you got bored after 5.1? Spamming Felflame or Lifetap while moving was more compelling to you? You felt like more of a master of your own fate b/c you had to switch to those spells during movement?

I don't get your argument.

It's a good change because it puts movement back into the players hands and makes it a thing. With KJC movement just isn't, and every fight is Patchwerk.

Planning, anticipating and dealing with movement is just as much a problem with the snare KJC causes. KJC is just a different way to movement.

It can be, but it needs very specific mechanics to make it an issue, the only places I've noticed it are with pushback mechanics. Outside of that, it is simply not a hinderance.

I also think the whole GC tweet is just the dumbest thing that man has written. I respect him for the work he does, and the flak he gets, but this "I sit in voidzones cause of KJC hur dur" is just patent bullshit. It's an argument definitely not aimed at warlocks, cause we know full well that if you sit in stuff with KJC you would have sat in it without it as well. Planning movement and paying attention to your environment doesn't suddenly change when you get this talent.

It doesn't change moving out of shit, but it does completely change how you run into position for Eye Beam, Static Shock or anything other pre-planned positioning. Those simply no longer matter with KJC. I get some people wont anticipate the slow for those movement checks and die as a result, I don't agree that's either a reason to remove or keep the talent.

So, tell my why it's a bad for game? Is that "it'll hurt me enjoyment" the reason? People say the talent is OP, is it? Hunter can move and do full dps, Ele Shamans can move and do full DPS. Why it's so bad for locks to be able to do that? Is it because mages and shadowpriests can't? Mages are already topping meters with their super good scaling. The way affliction works is built around being able to cast while moving. It's only best spec in 2/13(without Soul Swap abuse) bosses in ToT. So they just can't nerf affliction this hard without buffing other aspects of affliction or do you disagree?

Since affliction damage is 95% based on dots and 5% pet, I just don't see current Fel Flame as valid option while moving. And we already have one talent to help us move, Burning Rush, which i use everytime i have to move. Second usable talent to help us move seems just stupid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all aboard with KjC nerf, but this can't be the only change. They need to give affliction something better than Fel Flame and castable haunt while moving. Why would i want to cast Haunt while moving when i have to channel MG 8seconds after that haunt. I'm OK not casting anything while moving as far as our damage is balanced around that. It makes no sense to nerf one spec to bottom of the meters because people will then play the other two. Affliction is already least played spec in ToT.

But it's almost sure KjC will be nerfed and they have stated that they will balance warlocks around it and will look into Fel Flame interaction with DoTs. So I will happily wait and see what they come up with as long as they do what they said and not just leave KjC like it is now in PTR's without doing anything else to affliction. I also hope they would just revamp whole 90lvl talent tier, they all seem so unappealing with their uses.

I can only suggest you look at how Affliction was performing in 5.0 without the current implementation of KJC.

The problem is she is completely avoiding posts that counteract what she is saying. Brusalk posted what is probably the most well reasoned summarisation as to why KjC is so incredibly needed given current Warlock gameplay mechanics and she simply avoided it.

I've addressed Brusalk's posts repeatedly. I've shown as above the figures from 5.0 demonstrate that their concerns are overstated.

Additionally, his post does not cover the fact that quite of a large portion enjoy being able to cast and move. This is the way it should be and more ranged should be able to do it, not less. It does not break the game when Hunters can fully dps on the move, it is not game breaking for Warlocks to do it either. But, if we must nerf this ability which I still have not been convinced that it should be done then it should be handled like Elemental Shamans. Give us filler on the run.

I've addressed that too. It is a novelty for now because it's new, no other class has anything so comprehensive. People have mentioned GW2, and it was only because of that that my attention was drawn to the fact I could do it there. It honestly was just a part of the scenery and not a big deal at all; with time, that would very much happen with KJC. Others noted that that 'fun' was built on others' tears because they couldn't do it, and they were losing spots to the Warlocks that could.

[hammock]

If its not the reason behind affictions performance, you have nothing to fear from losing it.

Being dependent on something doesn't make it OP that's like me saying "Try playing affliction without haunt. Whats that? You do no damage. Haunt OP!"
Want to know why locks are doing well. Name a bad fight for locks. I'll give you a hint: there isn't one. There are soo many fights that suit locks right now it isn't even funny.


Sorry Jess but your argument is flawed at best and you are ignoring destro.

[Jessicka]

Being dependent on something doesn't make it OP that's like me saying "Try playing affliction without haunt. Whats that? You do no damage. Haunt OP!"
Want to know why locks are doing well. Name a bad fight for locks. I'll give you a hint: there isn't one. There are soo many fights that suit locks right now it isn't even funny.


Sorry Jess but your argument is flawed at best and you are ignoring destro.

What? Brusalk asked for evidence that KJC is making the class OP, the evidence is right there in the 5.0-5.1 figures that show KJC is not making Affliction OP, because it's performing just fine right there without it.

There's no real data for Destruction, but even Brusalk accepts the spec is far less reliant on it.