[Prot] T16 Set Bonuses

[Ater]

Since both holy and retri have threads for the new set bonuses lets have one for prot:

Item - Paladin T16 Protection 2P Bonus (New) Bastion of Glory now generates 1 Holy Power per stack consumed.
Item - Paladin T16 Protection 4P Bonus (New) While Guardian of Ancient Kings is active, 100% of the damage taken is converted into a heal over time that activates when Guardian of Ancient Kings fades.

The pieces:
Lightning Emperor's Chestguard
Lightning Emperor's Handguards
Lightning Emperor's Shoulderguards
Lightning Emperor's Legguards
Lightning Emperor's Chestguard

The gear might only be placeholders but right now neither the secondary stats, the socket colors or the socket bonuses makes me very excited.

During T15 a lot of prot paladins are completely skipping the set pieces, at least in 10 man. What do you guys think about the T16 bonuses?

[Deleted]

You realise that these 'new tier 16 items' are really just t15 items with updated set bonuses, those stats will change.

[Ater]

You realise that these 'new tier 16 items' are really just t15 items with updated set bonuses, those stats will change.

Thats why I wrote that the might only be placeholders.

Back on topic, that 2P bonus looks pretty powerful, will give us a lot more SotR during a fight. But also a pretty strange rotation? Will we be using WoG even if we are at full HP?

[Aceshigh]

Can absolutely see the power of the 2p, think it promotes poor gameplay, or at the very least gameplay outside of the scope that blizzard has kept us with throughout MOP. Using this set bonus to full potential means we're crippling WOG, playing normally and just getting this as a bonus to using WOG when we actually need that huge heal seems like a very underwhelming bonus.

[Nairobi]

Thats why I wrote that the might only be placeholders.

Let's hope. Let's reeeeeally hope. What I wouldn't give to see some haste on tier, else we'll be back to having ret tier again.

Back on topic, that 2P bonus looks pretty powerful, will give us a lot more SotR during a fight. But also a pretty strange rotation? Will we be using WoG even if we are at full HP?

While it's hard to say at this juncture, since we don't have actual set items yet, the 2pc looks interesting from a meta standpoint. With haste levels increasing to 50%, we'll see 5stack BOG within 20sec (or less, depending on GC/DP luck). Tossing out 1HoPo 5BOG WOGs (that's a mouthful) every ~20 sec means 5 HoPo returned for 1 spent, reducing ShotR's cost to ~1.9-2 HoPo (or a 33% increase in uptime, depending on how you want to look at it).

The biggest "cost" or "risk" here is the basic sacrifice of having a 5-BOG WOG ready to go nearly all the time. 5BOG WOG currently heals for ~350-600k depending on the situation, which is no small cooldown. Cashing in your bastion stacks to get more HoPo throughput does make for an interesting meta-game, but usually "interesting" is frowned upon from the dev team.

Personally, if I can get to 50% haste from gear (shouldn't be hard), I'm looking at ~80%+ uptime on ShotR innately from talents/rotation. SO the question becomes "is that last 20% uptime worth the lack of a meaningful oh-shit WOG?". I think that's going to be decided on a case-by-case basis, depending on fight and damage type, playstyle, and healer comp.

Also, will not be going for 4pc (10m HC POV) unless the tier items are amazingly itemized. And I'm not holding my breath on that.

[Aceshigh]

Also, will not be going for 4pc (10m HC POV) unless the tier items are amazingly itemized. And I'm not holding my breath on that.

Completely agree on this point.

[Deleted]

The 2 piece looks interesting, but will be a ball ache to manage well to capitalise/maximise HoPo generation and will take some getting used to.
4 piece looks pretty bad in most situations, however may be good for single tank fights (which i think blizz is trying to design against given the pally hate backlash this tier)
Think getting 4 piece will all be down to the tier set itemisation as always.

[pld]

Set up a WA to track your Bastion buff.

[Promdates]

Also, will not be going for 4pc (10m HC POV) unless the tier items are amazingly itemized. And I'm not holding my breath on that.

I can not see myself going for it either as 25H.

[Prokk]

Hard to say whether or not 4pc will be viable in both the 10H and 25H levels. Dat 2pc doe....

[Deleted]

What about the synergy of T15 2set-bonus and the new T16 2setbonus?
I am not saying to kepp the t15 bonus up the whole time, but with that using WoG seems to be not punishing at all. 40 % block and 5 holy power means instantly 1 sotr and still 2 holy power left. And thats for healing you for several hundred k.
Still hope, they change the secondary-stats on the tankset....
What do you guys think?

[pld]

What about the synergy of T15 2set-bonus and the new T16 2setbonus?
I am not saying to kepp the t15 bonus up the whole time, but with that using WoG seems to be not punishing at all. 40 % block and 5 holy power means instantly 1 sotr and still 2 holy power left. And thats for healing you for several hundred k.
Still hope, they change the secondary-stats on the tankset....
What do you guys think?

You'll end up losing a lot of Haste if you swap over to the T15 set. If you find yourself in a situation where you have 2 pieces of fully upgraded heroic TF T15 and can get yourself T16 2P quickly, it'll be fun and you'll take little to no physical damage, but when have we ever struggled with physical damage (apart from maybe Horridon progression?)

[Deleted]

You'll end up losing a lot of Haste if you swap over to the T15 set. If you find yourself in a situation where you have 2 pieces of fully upgraded heroic TF T15 and can get yourself T16 2P quickly, it'll be fun and you'll take little to no physical damage, but when have we ever struggled with physical damage (apart from maybe Horridon progression?)

I was assuming you have 2 pieces of heroic T15. Of course there is a stat loss, you're right. But I think I'll give it a shot. Especially on add-fights it should work out quite well.
Sure, physical damage wasn't a problem for the paladin in this expansion. We'll see what awaits us in T16
Thanks for your input!

[Nairobi]

You'll end up losing a lot of Haste if you swap over to the T15 set. If you find yourself in a situation where you have 2 pieces of fully upgraded heroic TF T15 and can get yourself T16 2P quickly, it'll be fun and you'll take little to no physical damage, but when have we ever struggled with physical damage (apart from maybe Horridon progression?)

Tier cannot be TF'd, just FYI. Best you can do is 543.

Also, the issue with the 2+2 setup is that 1) to get the max out of t15, you need to use a 3 HoPo WOG (for 15sec of block), and 2) to get the max out of t16, you need to use a 1 HoPo WOG (to get the most efficient use/least wasted HoPo per Bastion stack). So....they kinda work against each other from a "gaming" standpoint But, they have incredible synergy as a mini-cooldown, provided you use it as such, and not a micro-management "buff" to try and game at 100% uptime.

Also also, like you said, Phys dmg (thus far) has been more or less a nonissue (in 10s).

[Sunnydee]

Inb4 haste on prot set ? *crosses thumbs*

YES?? no? oh... ok

[Miedo]

Inb4 haste on prot set ? *crosses thumbs*

YES?? no? oh... ok

Good luck with that, we could only dream.

[pld]

Tier cannot be TF'd, just FYI. Best you can do is 543.

Also, the issue with the 2+2 setup is that 1) to get the max out of t15, you need to use a 3 HoPo WOG (for 15sec of block), and 2) to get the max out of t16, you need to use a 1 HoPo WOG (to get the most efficient use/least wasted HoPo per Bastion stack). So....they kinda work against each other from a "gaming" standpoint But, they have incredible synergy as a mini-cooldown, provided you use it as such, and not a micro-management "buff" to try and game at 100% uptime.

Also also, like you said, Phys dmg (thus far) has been more or less a nonissue (in 10s).

Do'h, brain fart on the TF tier pieces. I guess that's what happens when you don't use tier pieces.

Good point on the 3 HoPo vs 1 HoPo clash. Didn't even think about that.

Inb4 haste on prot set ? *crosses thumbs*

YES?? no? oh... ok

Haste on prot set? That's some dangerous thinking...

[Drummerboy]

Everyone is poo-pooing the 4 pc bonus which I don't get. Doesn't it artificially double the length of GoAK? How is a double-length CD bad?

[Nairobi]

Everyone is poo-pooing the 4 pc bonus which I don't get. Doesn't it artificially double the length of GoAK? How is a double-length CD bad?

It gives you a HoT (of unknown duration, and therefor unknown usefulness/power) after GoAK expires. If the HoT lasts for, say, 15 seconds, it will (assumedly) tick 5-7 times for ~20-15% of the damage taken in the previous 12 seconds. So, let's say you took an even 1.0 mil damage during GoAK:

You're looking at ~150-200k heal per tick, for 15 seconds. It's not BAD, it's just not GOOD. That amount of healing will, almost assuredly, be majority overheal. Why? Because you're usually popping CD's at "oh shit" moments, to help manage a healer being OOR or a high incoming damage spike. Rarely do those moments extend past 12 seconds (or at least, things are stable by then). So, the healer is back in range and casting again, in our example. So you're topped and safe, and then have this bolus of healing come in. Again, its not BAD, its just kinda....wasted. Overkill, maybe.

It's NOT the same as doubling the duration, as we all know that damage prevented is far far better than damage healed up. Most times, we use CDs to prevent the large incoming spike(s), to cut down that 500k hit to 250k. With the set bonus, you still get 12 seconds of protection from damage, but the extra 10, 15, 30 (or however long) seconds after expiration are not reduced damage, just a heal.

Again, not saying the bonus is bad. It's not. It's just LIKELY not worth the loss of "good stats" (aka haste) that we won't see on tier for the trade-off of a largely wasted HOT after popping our CD.

As always, PTR is PTR, and things may change drastically, but I just don't see it being worth the tier pieces that otherwise would go to DPS/healers, and the influx of all the subpar stats if the tier itemization continues as it has all expansion.

[Deleted]

2p is a rehash of the current tier's bonus, which was already poorly received. No idea why they felt this would be considered much better. I'm yet to do any sims on it because I don't care, but in theory you can just update the models used for the t15 2p and compare the WoG rotation vs the standard rotation for an idea as to the overall difference.

You should reconsider. That 2p is the most op tier bonus we had in a long long long time. I am drewling already.