In need of help with my first self-made PC

[Deleted]

Hello there!

As a long time lurker of these forums, I thought it might be wise to ask you guys for help.
My current PC is breaking down and its just a matter of time before it completly breaks down. So now's probably a good time to make and buy a new PC.
So onwards, to the relevant stuff!

Budget
My budget is between 900 and 1000 euro. I reckon I should be able to buy a decent machine with this amount of money.

Resolution
Planning to play them games at 1920x1080. Might go for a bigger resolution in the future, but for now this'll do.

Games / Settings Desired
Total War: Rome II (and older releases)
Civilization V
The Witcher 1, 2 and 3
Dragon Age: Origens, 2 and Inquisition
Path of Exile
The Crysis series.
And I can name loads more. Some games are quite demanding of the comp, others arent. I just want to be able use this computer without having to upgrade it (with the exception of the GPU) for quite some time.
I'd prefer playing these game on the highest, or slightly lower than that, settings.

Any other intensive software or special things you do (Frequent video encoding, 3D modeling, etc)
I rarely use software like Photoshop, Aftereffects and Illustrator. Just for the occasional school project.

Country
The Netherlands.

Parts that can be reused
I'd be able to use my current storage devices till I buy the one in the build thats a bit further into this post. Same goes for the CPU cooler.

Do you need an OS?
Nope.

Do you need peripherals (e.g. monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc)?
Nein.


So here's the build that I had in mind.
CPU Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core
CPU Cooler Scythe SCMG-3100 88.1 CFM
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600
Storage Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM
SSD Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" //// Crucial 2.5" M500 120GB
Video Card EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB
Case Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX
Power Supply XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V

As I cant post links yet, this simple list will have to do :/ will post a link to PCpartpicker once I can.
(Prices dont really match as I can get some parts cheaper, like the CPU (currently on sale for 180 euro over here), but they're close enough)

I'm not sure on whether the motherboard and power supply are gonne cut it.
Also, I'd like to use a proper headset with a seperate mic (something allong the lines of the Blue Snowball or Blue Yeti), will it be compatible?


That about sums it up. Thanks for reading through this post and I welcome any advice you can give as I'm not really experienced on this subject.

ghorgh

[Deleted]

I'd recommend ATLEAST a 60 or 120GB SSD for OS/ select few games that will get improved performance from it.

Maybe a 4670k instead with a Z87 MB? I dont think that will be more expensive but i'd be shocked if there wasn't a board that fit your budget and gaming requirements.

[Deleted]

Ah, forgot to add the SS.
This is the one I had in mind:
Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5"

The 4670k is roughly 210 euro including shipping, while the 3570k is 187 euro with shipping. The performance diffence (from what I could see) isn't that big. Tho if people can recommend using the 4670k over the 3570k, I'd consider it ofc. I'm also pretty clueless to the benefits a Z87 motherboard would provide.

[Deleted]

Ah, forgot to add the SS.
This is the one I had in mind:
Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5"

The 4670k is roughly 210 euro including shipping, while the 3570k is 187 euro with shipping. The performance diffence (from what I could see) isn't that big. Tho if people can recommend using the 4670k over the 3570k, I'd consider it ofc. I'm also pretty clueless to the benefits a Z87 motherboard would provide.

well, its just "newer". I guess if money is tight sticking with a 3570k + Z77 wouldn't be a problem at all right now, but personally i wouldn't mind spending maybe 100 euro more for the newer generation.

Somebody a little more knowledgeable on this subject will have to step in and assist you though, just thought i'd mention it.

[Xuvial]

Firstly, I love people who use the format. So you gain an automatic hug from me <3

Alright, onto COMPUTARZ

So here's the build that I had in mind.
CPU Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core
CPU Cooler Scythe SCMG-3100 88.1 CFM
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155
Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333
Storage Western Digital Red 3TB 3.5" 5400RPM
Video Card EVGA GeForce GTX 760 2GB
Case Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX
Power Supply XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V

This build is mostly rock-solid, you're on the right track so I'll just list what I think about your choices with my own recommended build posted below.

CPU: i5 4670K is the new hot-sauce so are Z87 motherboards, but at the same time it really isn't a leap forward from the i5 3570K in terms of gaming and if you're getting a 3570K for $180 then that's great.
CPU cooler: I highly respect Scythe's Mugen series, very good air coolers. Hope you're getting it at a decent price.
Mobo: Great. Also see ASRock Z77 Pro3 if you're looking for a cheaper board for a better bang for the buck.
Memory: You should be able to find a 1600mhz kit for not much more than that, would recommend over 1333mhz. Corsair, Mushkin, G.Skill, Crucial, Kingston, all are great.
Storage: Noooo I wouldn't buy a WD Red. They are WAY overpriced and despite supposedly being a NAS-oriented drive, their reliability rates have ironically been worse than Caviar Blacks, Blues and Greens according to feedback so far. You have a lot of games so I would highly recommend having a single Caviar Black (2TB-4TB, they are performance-oriented) since you'll be running all your games off that drive.
Video card: Fine, but do keep an eye out for HD7950 or HD7970 prices (and game bundles) because they are getting ridiculously cheap these days
Case: Excellent!
PSU: Great

Below is my recommended build, and yes I've thrown in a 120gb SSD because your budget allows it after we chuck out the 3TB Red and replace it with a 3TB Green. There's obviously no way in hell you would be able to fit ALL your games on the SSD, but the ones you most frequently play should fit on there giving you a massive boost in load times and massive boost in overall system performance. No build goes without an SSD if we can fit it into the budget.

Ignore the GTX660 Ti, I can't even find GTX760 on PCPartPicker or Amazon.de so I don't even know where you're getting it from...but it apparently costs 250 EU so I used 660 Ti as a placeholder.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz (€206.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
CPU Cooler: Scythe SCMG-3100 (€36.90 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro3 (€81.59 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 (€61.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB Solid State Disk (€85.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 3TB (€114.50 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB (€252.85 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (€92.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 550W (€54.90 @ Caseking)
Total: €986.28
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)

[Deleted]

Hey there Xuvial, thanks for replying!

You're totally right about the HDD, I only recently found out myself regarding the differences with the colours.
I forgot to edit my list in the first post with an SSD and HDD. Should be changed at the time this is read. The SSD someone else suggested was the Crucial 2.5" M500 120GB since it has powersafe caps.
The memory should've been the 1600 version, seems I've missclicked on PCPartPicker :/ my bad.
The GPU is also on PCPartPicker, if I remember correctly they had quite a big list of customized 760s. And I also have a slight bias favoring Nvidia, always used their cards.. never had a problem so far. No one likes change!

The only doubts I'm having is regarding the CPU. A good friend of mine assured the 3570k is great and doesn't really need the jump to a 4670k. I've also read that the motherboards commenly used with the 4670k are more pricey than the ones used with the 3570k. Then again, I'm a complete noob when it comes down to motherboards... any significant changes between the two options that would justify the increase of the price?

[Xuvial]

Crucial M500 is excellent. The only reason I recommend the Samsung 840 was due to the $85 pricetag on amazon.de while M500 is $107. The performance difference between them is negligible and the failure rates for the SSD's from both companies are the lowest in the industry (last I checked). If the powersafe caps mean that much to you, then go for the Crucial : /

Regarding CPU, I did say 4670K wasn't a big leap forward :P and there are no features that Z87 motherboards offer that Z77 motherboards don't. Yes the motherboards are pricier when comparing them at the same tier (e.g. ASRock Z77 Pro3 vs ASRock Z87 Pro3 = 16 EU difference) and a 4670K + Z87 will cost a whole chunk more than 3570K + Z77 factoring in that you're getting your 3570K for 180 EU.

With your budget frankly I don't see the 4670K worth it, I would reserve it for a 1300+ EU build.

[chazus]

The only doubts I'm having is regarding the CPU. A good friend of mine assured the 3570k is great and doesn't really need the jump to a 4670k. I've also read that the motherboards commenly used with the 4670k are more pricey than the ones used with the 3570k.

I've been having this debate a lot recently. The idea is that the 4670K is, for all intents and purposes, "10% better than the 3570K". It's also 10% more expensive, as well. But when it comes to the top end, when you literally can't get better, paying 10% and getting 10% seems totally valid, right?

Therein lies the rub.

The great thing about the 3570K (and it's Sandy Bridge predecessor, 2500K), you were pretty much almost gauranteed a Good cpu out the door for overclocking (4.4-4.6ghz). A great one was quite likely (4.7-4.8ghz), often limited by the motherboard rather than the CPU. Even truly awesome CPUs, allowing 4.9-5.0 were moderately common.

Haswell though, has brought a mixed bag. Even getting a "Good" CPU is somewhat rare. Most people can really only expect to get ~4.3ghz, regardless of board, whereas with the 3570K, any $110+ motherboard will net you 4.7ghz more often than not.

So you pay 10% more, get 10% more performance from architecture, but stand to lose up to 10% on the 'cpu lottery'. The 3570K (at least, to me) still seems like a good, solid buy. I have one now, and feel confident in it's performance still, that I can recommend it to others.

[Ripox]

Chazus, while I do not disagree with anything you stated, am I wrong to say that a 4.3Ghz 4670k is more than 10% better than a 4.3Ghz 3570k in the same way how the 2500k would be overclocking high speeds and its sandy bridge equivalent was much lower?

[Killora]

Chazus, while I do not disagree with anything you stated, am I wrong to say that a 4.3Ghz 4670k is more than 10% better than a 4.3Ghz 3570k in the same way how the 2500k would be overclocking high speeds and its sandy bridge equivalent was much lower?

yes, but what he's saying is that you can, on average, achieve higher clock speeds on the 3570k than the 4670k due to the mentioned lottery. As a result, any performance gain from architecture becomes negligible or negated entirely.

edit: i meant no, you're not wrong. i kinda worded that weird.

[chazus]

am I wrong to say that a 4.3Ghz 4670k is more than 10% better than a 4.3Ghz 3570k in the same way how the 2500k would be overclocking high speeds and its sandy bridge equivalent was much lower?

No, that's definitely correct.

However, the problem is this: You're spending 10% more on a 4670K that may well only go to 4.3ghz. On a 3570K, you're pretty much gauranteed 4.6 bare minimum. At that point, we're really splitting hairs over 1-2%, but I feel that the 3570K is a gauranteed 'great buy' where the 4670K has a potential risk to be only a 'good buy'.

To be clear, at the end of the day, either are good. I Just feel more comfortable knowing that if I recommending a 3570K. My 3570K is fantastic, however I was disappointed at the fact I was limited to 4.6ghz due to getting cheapy cheap motherboard. I wouldn't want someone to get a 4670K and find they lost the lottery. It doesn't -really- matter but.. yanno.

[Ripox]

Oh so basically: more often than not, the 3570k you get will be able to OC to a point that it outperforms many 4670Ks because many of the Haswells are stuck with low OC potential?

---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 09:46 AM ----------

Should the CPU cooler also be factored in? When something like the CM 212 Evo is used, it cant exactly push crazy OC speeds on either CPU. I don't mean to derail this thread but rather than ask on a new thread, would you recommend a 3570k or 4670k when a low end cooler like the CM 212 EVO is used? What about higher end like an H100i?

[Killora]

Oh so basically: more often than not, the 3570k you get will be able to OC to a point that it outperforms many 4670Ks because many of the Haswells are stuck with low OC potential?

---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 09:46 AM ----------

Should the CPU cooler also be factored in? When something like the CM 212 Evo is used, it cant exactly push crazy OC speeds on either CPU. I don't mean to derail this thread but rather than ask on a new thread, would you recommend a 3570k or 4670k when a low end cooler like the CM 212 EVO is used? What about higher end like an H100i?

From what i've seen, even if you get a half decent 4670k, you may or may not, depending on how good it actually is, be thermally limited by the evo. At that point it's really a toss up. The 3570k would be guaranteed whereas the 4670k would be a gamble.

with an h100i, i'd probably say haswell. mostly because on a lot of chips they're thermally limited before stability limited. So a high end air cooler/water cooler would be best paired with a 4670k probably, but that has to be factored into added cost of the CPU. So you end up paying a decent bit more (statistically) to get a good overclock on the 4670k.

all in all, a good recommendation is to stick with the 3570k with low end air coolers, and the 4670k with water.

A lot of Haswell OC potential seems to be gimped largely by temperatures due to on-die VRM and TIM Heatspreaders (instead of soldered). So if you get a good cooler, the 4670k could potentially be better than the 3570k.

[chazus]

Oh so basically: more often than not, the 3570k you get will be able to OC to a point that it outperforms many 4670Ks because many of the Haswells are stuck with low OC potential?

I wouldn't say it 'outperforms' so much as breaks even, at a lower cost.

Should the CPU cooler also be factored in? When something like the CM 212 Evo is used, it cant exactly push crazy OC speeds on either CPU

Heat is the other issue. With the 3570K, with a truly good cpu lottery, you can push 4.9ghz on an EVO. With Haswell, an EVO simply doesn't cut it anymore for even decent overclocks, and water cooling (which is generally considered borderline cosmetic for Ivy Bridge) almost becomes a necessity.

Basically, IB's 'high overclock' practice is applied to Haswell 'moderate overclock' range.

[Ripox]

Hmph. Interesting and a bit disappointing as well as annoying to see tech going backwards. Would a 4670k+Z87 MoBo see a better next-2-years than buying a 3570k+Z77 MoBo atm?

---------- Post added 2013-06-27 at 09:57 AM ----------

So what good does Haswell bring the PC Gaming world? Anything special on Z87 motherboards to make up for its shortcomings? This is incredibly disappointing from Intel, to be honest.

[Killora]

Hmph. Interesting and a bit disappointing as well as annoying to see tech going backwards. Would a 4670k+Z87 MoBo see a better next-2-years than buying a 3570k+Z77 MoBo atm?

Tech isn't really going backwards. Theres not going to be any performance loss with a 4670k vs a 3570k. It's just, at worst, you'll break even on performance. They put the VRM on die and that's a good thing for mobile CPU's like in laptops, phones, etc. CPU technology just seems to be slowing down. Largely because of lack of demand for high end performance CPU's. The majority of people don't play games or anything intensive, and usually dont even have desktops. they use laptops, phones, etc. This is partially why they started using TIM heat-spreaders as opposed to soldered. It's cheaper to manufacture.

And no, it wouldn't. By the time you'd want to replace a 3570k, they'll have moved to a new socket size.

[chazus]

Also keep in mind, that's one VERY specific processor. for a very specific market.

The 4570 is a direct upgrade of the 3470.

Personally, I see my 3570K outlasting Haswell, and possibly even Broadwell entirely. Unless Intel does something (like going back to Solder thermal solution) with broadwell, I may just hold out until Skylake.

[Ripox]

I guess I was as hopeful as those "Half Life 3 and Titan release in 2012" guys about Haswell, I was expecting similar jumps from Neph to Sandy

Edit: So the general consensus is: If you're not getting a really good watercooler, go Ivy?

[slasher0161]

I guess I was as hopeful as those "Half Life 3 and Titan release in 2012" guys about Haswell, I was expecting similar jumps from Neph to Sandy

Edit: So the general consensus is: If you're not getting a really good watercooler, go Ivy?

It isn't quite that clear cut but for now that analogy can hold fairly well (we may find they change the binning process more once the line up has been out for longer and the chance of a chip overclocking well is increased).

[chazus]

I mean, people have gotten Haswells to 4.9-5.0ghz. They honestly have, with normal $80-$100 coolers (H80, H100s). The problem is that the quality of CPU you get is all over the board. It's more a lottery than ever before.