PTR 5.4 Caster Trinkets first look.

[Deleted]

The problem is that its extremely difficult to see how strong that multistrike trinket is, during burst its a total waste of time, but if you notice the trinkets are actually no where near as powerful for burst damage as what the Tot ones are, but in general passive trinkets would need to be extremely strong to be worth taking over ones you can stack with Cd's.

Ive tested it a few times and i was finding it as low as 2% of my damage done on some 60 million + tries.

[xskarma]

Ive tested it a few times and i was finding it as low as 2% of my damage done on some 60 million + tries.

That sucks pretty bad. My 2 attempts were just quick 10 million damage runs to see how it generally looked, so your attempts hold much more weight. If it's really nearer 2% then combined with the passive crit instead of INT or something it really becomes the mediocre option to have.

And like you said the fact it's no help in setting up a good opening or burst period it will likely not be much better then what we have from ToT, untill people get their hands on HC and TF HC versions that will likely outclass the ToT ones purely on ilevel.

It would be rather a shame if all 3 specs ended up going for the same 2 trinkets, even if it's convenient with gearing.

[Deleted]

Im strongly trying to justify the Crit proc trinket, but with AD i just dont see how it can possibly math out to be as good as the stacking int trinket when you consider just how much crit you get from having that proc fully stacked.

When you take into consideration this.

35% crit raid buffed
15% crit 4 set
30% crit dark soul
10% crit 2 set (i know the uptime is dire)
20% crit trinket

potential 110% crit, the thing is crit will be strong next tier regardless, but stacking it this much is just meh tbh, and it makes dark soul seem EXTREMELY weak when you cant line it up with anything which leaves me to believe we are going to have to take AD for single target and just use dark soul for when the stacking int trinket procs to maximise the damage gain.

Seems kinda like second place after the previous amp trinket though

**All things above meant in regard to using the amp trinket**

There is still the minor issue of Supremacy scaling imo aswell because of how blizzard have butchered haste for destruction but we will see how that pans out in the number pass.

[Acaila]

I thought stats like crit multiplied are not added together? When combined from various sources?

Edit: forgot a word

[Deleted]

Shouldnt the 14% secondary stats trinket still be the best scaling trinket for a class that stacks secondary stats like warlocks do? Especially as affliction where mastery/haste are so incredibly strong and basically have no caps.

[Meleti]

Shouldnt the 14% secondary stats trinket still be the best scaling trinket for a class that stacks secondary stats like warlocks do? Especially as affliction where mastery/haste are so incredibly strong and basically have no caps.

It is definitely worth simming but so far as actual Intellect trinkets go our current options are strong.

[Werst]

All my testing so far has shown amp + static int w' crit proc trinket for non UVLS demo and destro with aff preferring amp + static haste w' stacking int proc being the strongest combos. I also tried using UVLS + amp and amp + chanye with crit gemming/forging. In 552'ish ilvl (5xT16, 2x T16 trinkets, rest being my live gear) I was seeing about 36% crit self buffed so call it 42-45% crit raid buffed if you picked up offpieces with crit. (my live offpieces avoid crit)

At that high a crit non UVLS demo is actually pretty strong rivaling affliction. Destro's numbers are still in the toilet to the point I'd call it a dead spec without huge buffs. The rub is that I don't see either aff or demo being able to cross or offspec well. Even with the T16 set bonus aff still loves its haste and mastery...the set bonus just turns crit from less than 50% of haste/mastery's value to maybe not such a flaccid stat. If they just turn destro's knobs up about equally I'd expect it to be able to function off non UVLS demo's itemization...at least better than it would offspec for affliction.

Without the EA glyph UVLS isn't as strong as many give it credit for. You actually have to pay closer attention to how you spend DF since you can't ride a 2 minute doom imp machine which passively does much of the spec's damage. I'm not sure how many will drop demo when the skill ceiling rises but increasing skill and reducing RNG from the spec I both feel are healthy which the new amp + crit trinket supports. Archi's talent true gain will being able to have even more control over how and when we spend our DF by giving us another major CD to sync with trinkets.

TLDR = demo/destro amp + crit, aff amp + haste

[Count Zero]

^ I'm guessing you didn't test Demo+UVLS as you don't have UVLS ?

[Shadowygoodness]

Awww man. So no 500k+ CBs on PvP targets? I was at least hoping to see a little QQ before it was changed.

[Werst]

I did test a base 535 UVLS 2/2 upgraded and found it is close on its good pulls if not inferior (on its bad ones) to amp+crit trinket for a crit itemized demo. Its obviously stronger if you gear mastery/haste with UVLS/amp but a full crit demo setup was able to match or exceed that in terms of numbers with less RNG. Basically if you game your 2pc soulfire as your trigger to be in meta and save CD's for major dump times (when amp + crit proc) on a crit based setup you can beat ULVS. I am testing without the EA glyph since that is obviously going away in the future.

Same gear as armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Werst/simple just with the T16 5x set and the T16 trinkets. Granted I have a couple generic alts to provide all the gems/chants/etc for swapping back and forth repeatedly but its the same setup. Still running troll racial though orc might be closer without the 2 min UVLS super doom opener.

If I had to rank setups right now it might look like:

1. Crit > mast > haste setup demo with amp and crit trinkets.
2. Mast > haste > crit setup demo with amp and UVLS trinkets.
3. Aff with mast = haste > crit setup with amp and haste trinkets
4. Melee'ing the dummy with a fishing pole and safari hat
5. Destro with any combination of trinkets.

The first 3 are pretty close. I rated the non UVLS demo higher due to it being less subject to RNG and more subject to reactive skill though RNG on the 2pcT16 soulfire buff are still going to RNG you. Aff is really close and possibly stronger still but its hard to get a true test until demo gets its set bonus unbugged. I noticed I was getting 4pc procs in demo that seemed to be charging me DF and chaoswaving instead of casting HoG so that is why I would give the nod to demo > aff or at least call it equal. Aff is certainly an easier spec to play than high crit demo.

You could probably start out using a UVLS/amp haste/mastery setup as a companion spec to affliction. You are just married to UVLS and all its RNG for an indefinite basis. I would almost certainly go with a 2pc/2pc T16/T15H right now but again can't say for sure until the bugs are out.

[Sifonology]

Last time I checked 2pc bonus was also bugged that doesn't proc while in meta. Is that fixed?

[Werst]

I was more fishing for 2pc procs in caster and going to meta using the 2pc proc as the trigger for DF spending in meta. I would have to check again to see if any procs came from soulfire in meta form. Safe to say its too early to tell for sure but that is why the topic is "first look". Might not worry too much about it till the next PTR build and see if those things are fixed.

That said even with minimal crit for aff you still see pretty good uptime on the UA crit buff. It felt pretty easy to maintain shards but still was streaky. I think the uptime was around 70% with minimal crit so you don't exactly save shards for it like demo would spend fury carefully. Having no CD on baseline soulswap made the spec more functional for things like 5 mans but I can already imagine the pvp QQ machine will complain about it eventually. The buff to haunt makes you much more keen on spending shards on haunt not SB:SS. Since amp is ICD you can plan your CD use more reliably though the haste trinket is still RPPM as far as I can tell.

[Sifonology]

I just re-tested amp trinket, it increases haste and mastery passively(possible crit damage too) and proc is nullified, rework incoming.

[Deleted]

I just re-tested amp trinket, it increases haste and mastery passively(possible crit damage too) and proc is nullified, rework incoming.

Was posted yesterday, there is some info regarding this on this page and the start of the previous

[Sifonology]

Was posted yesterday, there is some info regarding this on this page and the start of the previous

I don't usually miss posts on this topic, weird. I saw Werst's test results and I thought it was working okay when he posted the results which is 13 hours ago.

[Xyronic]

I did test a base 535 UVLS 2/2 upgraded and found it is close on its good pulls if not inferior (on its bad ones) to amp+crit trinket for a crit itemized demo. Its obviously stronger if you gear mastery/haste with UVLS/amp but a full crit demo setup was able to match or exceed that in terms of numbers with less RNG. Basically if you game your 2pc soulfire as your trigger to be in meta and save CD's for major dump times (when amp + crit proc) on a crit based setup you can beat ULVS. I am testing without the EA glyph since that is obviously going away in the future.

Same gear as armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...l/Werst/simple just with the T16 5x set and the T16 trinkets. Granted I have a couple generic alts to provide all the gems/chants/etc for swapping back and forth repeatedly but its the same setup. Still running troll racial though orc might be closer without the 2 min UVLS super doom opener.

If I had to rank setups right now it might look like:

1. Crit > mast > haste setup demo with amp and crit trinkets.
2. Mast > haste > crit setup demo with amp and UVLS trinkets.
3. Aff with mast = haste > crit setup with amp and haste trinkets
4. Melee'ing the dummy with a fishing pole and safari hat
5. Destro with any combination of trinkets.

The first 3 are pretty close. I rated the non UVLS demo higher due to it being less subject to RNG and more subject to reactive skill though RNG on the 2pcT16 soulfire buff are still going to RNG you. Aff is really close and possibly stronger still but its hard to get a true test until demo gets its set bonus unbugged. I noticed I was getting 4pc procs in demo that seemed to be charging me DF and chaoswaving instead of casting HoG so that is why I would give the nod to demo > aff or at least call it equal. Aff is certainly an easier spec to play than high crit demo.

You could probably start out using a UVLS/amp haste/mastery setup as a companion spec to affliction. You are just married to UVLS and all its RNG for an indefinite basis. I would almost certainly go with a 2pc/2pc T16/T15H right now but again can't say for sure until the bugs are out.

I could definitely see the crit-based non UVLS setup as competitive; only issues I have with it is that by going crit-heavy, you are missing out on the haste/mastery scaling from the amp trinket. I'm assuming this crit based setup will use service or supremacy, as you won't necessarily be focused on imp damage through 100% crit dooms. The real draw of the UVLS based build, and why I think it will still be #1 next tier, is that you can afford to play sacrifice still (which will be tops in damage on any single target fight, or fights where you can multidot crit dooms to great effect)due to the imp generation, and with amp passive the haste/mastery build will have insane base stats. By the way, UVLS demo should be stacking haste to the ~17k doom haste breakpoint next tier, then mastery. This will be very easy to reach with the amp passive. With a 549 UVLS, it's really not all that RNG to keep a 100% crit doom rolling the entire fight, even without EA.

tl;dr - Crit based build will be viable, but not better than 549 UVLS.

[Sifonology]

Where is that 17k doom breakpoint that I cannot see? There is one at 12k and another one in 22k, with one %30 haste buff there is one breakpoint at 15k and with double %30 haste buff, there is one at 13k(numbers might be 1k lower because I'm a goblin and I rounded everything).

[Brusalk]

Where is that 17k doom breakpoint that I cannot see? There is one at 12k and another one in 22k, with one %30 haste buff there is one breakpoint at 15k and with double %30 haste buff, there is one at 13k(numbers might be 1k lower because I'm a goblin and I rounded everything).

Are you looking at EA'd values or not? Remember that EA is apparently going away in 5.4 so Xyronic may be referring to either one of those sets of numbers.

[Xyronic]

Are you looking at EA'd values or not? Remember that EA is apparently going away in 5.4 so Xyronic may be referring to either one of those sets of numbers.

I'm referring to Berserking breakpoints, which noone else seems to track. I'm referring to the 12 tick per minute breakpoint, 17377, with Lust/metagem/berserking/raid haste. The breakpoint I used during progression was 12391, or 11 ticks per minute.

[Deleted]

I'm referring to Berserking breakpoints, which noone else seems to track. I'm referring to the 12 tick per minute breakpoint, 17377, with Lust/metagem/berserking/raid haste. The breakpoint I used during progression was 12391, or 11 ticks per minute.

Pretty situational then, as far as I know Lifeblood is still min/max just like troll, so adding one and not the other seems a bit random for everyone but yourself.

What's going to be our second best trinket beside the stacking intellect, provided the Amp changed to passive? It seems quite bad now, not at all working with out class design of saving resources for procs... But all the other trinkets are not amazing either.