Itemsquish reminder

[Aquamonkey]

Espcailly since it will affect soloing(its not a linear squish), which is a gameplay aspect of the game.

Solo'ing raids is not an intended part of the game.

Also:

Will an item level squish affect our ability to solo older content? If it doesn't, I have no problem with it.
The goal is it will not affect your ability to solo older content. (Source)

[Griffter]

Blizzard (specifically Ghostcrawler) seemed to think players would be begging for an item squish once the numbers got to a certain point, but I've never understood why big numbers are a problem. An item squish wouldn't bother me, but why risk confusing/angering the uninformed?

[Abysal]

The reason to bother with it is that it's a lot more satisfying to upgrade from +168 strength to +180 strength, than it is to upgrade from +2408 strength to +2590. Lower numbers have more impact (That's just base fact, the difference between 11 and 12 is more recognizable than the difference between 11,000 and 12,000) and it is a bit silly to have people running around with 300k health standard and able to basically two shot old raid bosses.

I disagree. I gain no extra satisfaction gearing up small numbers than big numbers. In fact, I've noticed while leveling alts that I gain no satisfaction at all from those small increases since I'm now used to bigger numbers. Also, there's nothing silly at all about 300k health. Health is an arbitrary unit. They could use any number for it. If it bugs you so much, just switch the settings so it just shows percentages on health bars instead of raw numbers?

No.
Blizzard had it fully working and was planning on implementing it, or a system where damage get's abbreviated (300,000 damage becomes 300k) , but then decided not to because they were worried that it was going to be too much change when combined the talent revamp and major class changes that occurred at the same time.

Their blog said the following:

"When we tried this internally, everyone agreed that it just felt off throwing a spell for hundreds of damage when you are used to it doing thousands of damage."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

Why tell someone "no" when they stated an easily provable fact?

That's not how it works, it scales down the item levels of items, so that the difference in stats/health between levels gets smaller. It doesn't just shift everything down. It would make it so that at level 60, you'd have say 1k health, at 70, 1.5k, at 80 2.25k, at 90 3k, etc.

Which is part of the problem. Instead of squishing linearly, this is a buff to low levels relative to higher levels. This makes leveling even more tedious. You barely feel like you are getting any more powerful as you level. "Oh look I do 5% more dmg than I did 10 levels ago!" Where's the fun in that?

[bendak]

If at level 95 you were suddenly doing less damage than you did at level 20 (before the squish), don't you think that is more confusing than big scary numbers? Because confusion is the argument for item squish, right? If not, what is it? (and don't tell me it's because "They're big numbers!!!") They aren't nearly large enough to be any kind of UI or calculation issue. They can abbreviate with "k" and "m" as well.

[serenka]

i wish it would happen, i just find smaller number more pleasing. i'd love for it to happen as long as the %s stay relative.

i just find big numbers a hassle, and next expac at this rate we will reach 1M health easily. i don't see why it would have to break soloing if everything is scaled down presumably. i just think the jump from cata to wotlk was way too big.

[Agoonga]

Will an item level squish affect our ability to solo older content? If it doesn't, I have no problem with it.
The goal is it will not affect your ability to solo older content. (Source)

Bring on the squish!

[Katharine]

Item squish was the worst idea Blizzard has ever came up with and I hope it's dead.

[serenka]

Bring on the squish!

yeah im pretty sure blizzard would want us to be able to solo old raids still, they know a lot of people actively do it

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Item squish was the worst idea Blizzard has ever came up with and I hope it's dead.

nono, mega damage was the worst idea.

[jbombard]

I disagree. I gain no extra satisfaction gearing up small numbers than big numbers. In fact, I've noticed while leveling alts that I gain no satisfaction at all from those small increases since I'm now used to bigger numbers. Also, there's nothing silly at all about 300k health. Health is an arbitrary unit. They could use any number for it. If it bugs you so much, just switch the settings so it just shows percentages on health bars instead of raw numbers?





Their blog said the following:

"When we tried this internally, everyone agreed that it just felt off throwing a spell for hundreds of damage when you are used to it doing thousands of damage."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585

Why tell someone "no" when they stated an easily provable fact?




Which is part of the problem. Instead of squishing linearly, this is a buff to low levels relative to higher levels. This makes leveling even more tedious. You barely feel like you are getting any more powerful as you level. "Oh look I do 5% more dmg than I did 10 levels ago!" Where's the fun in that?

This. Also health and damage have not been scaling at the same right as each other nor is the rate steady across all levels. On top of that mob and boss damage and health also are at a different rate. It isn't as simple as magically pushing a button. Blizzard never said specifically how much testing or how in depth the testing was that they did.

Currently damage and health scale in such a way that the player can feel an increase in power over time. With a squish, the % increase from level to level becomes much smaller and the difference becomes imperceptible. The value of getting better gear also becomes extremely negligible. So basically you not only kill the sense of progress while leveling but you also kill the entire market of low level gear and make crafting pointless until high levels.

All because someone doesn't like to look at big numbers which can be fixed by changing how it is displayed. By the time hardware becomes an issue, Blizzard would likely be on new hardware anyway and as long as you keep upgrading hardware(which is pretty much a necessity anyway) by the time you reach a problem that isn't fixed with hardware people will be riding around in flying cars.

[Deleted]

So? It's just fucking numbers. I don't see why people care so much about it. The numbers are already up. It's a waste of time scaling down EVERY mob in wow.

Some people don't like the feeling of godmoding...which is the feeling you get with bignumbers. I like the sense of feeling like a hero who isn't almighty.

I know this isn't game related but I'd like to take DBZ as an example. The powerlevels grow so big they loose any meaning. In the end it's still 2 dudes fighting, but they feel so strong it's just silly.

Nobody is arguing that mechanic wise is doesn't mean a flying f*ck...it's the overall feeling and gameplay expirience that changes even if it doesn't mean shit on paper.

[GrieverXIII]

I took completly random numbers, obviously lets try to debunk an argument by dodging it and nitpicking, we're on MMO-Championg after all.

Some people don't like the feeling of godmoding...which is the feeling you get with bignumbers. I like the sense of feeling like a hero who isn't almighty.

Also this.

[JohnBrown1917]

Solo'ing raids is not an intended part of the game.

Also:

Will an item level squish affect our ability to solo older content? If it doesn't, I have no problem with it.
The goal is it will not affect your ability to solo older content. (Source)

We already went over this in detail. Unless the squish is linear solo'ing will be affected.
And even if solo'ing is not intended, why should the game-play be affected by a visual change?

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I took completly random numbers, obviously lets try to debunk an argument by dodging it and nitpicking, we're on MMO-Championg after all.



Also this.

I never dodged the argument. Read the rest of my post. You have yet to give a good argument for the squish.

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Some people don't like the feeling of godmoding...which is the feeling you get with bignumbers. I like the sense of feeling like a hero who isn't almighty.

Find an add-on to 'fix' it. Don't let it affect the rest of the playerbase when it is not a problem.
Its not worth the development time.

[Abysal]

nono, mega damage was the worst idea.

Why? You don't like seeing big numbers. That makes the numbers smaller. Other people don't want to get weaker. They wouldn't. What's so terrible about seeing an "M" after your health and damage (you already have a K after your health and M after most bosses health bars)? It doesn't even have to be an M or a letter at all. Hell, they could simply change the color/graphic of the numbers when they are in mega damage range. Or even give players an ability they learn at e.g. level 95, that converts all those yellow spell damages and white damage to red and purple (for example) and makes the numbers smaller or something. Visually, it'd be the same as item squish, but it'd take far less dev resources and it wouldn't actually reduce the power of anyone who likes big numbers/soloing old content.

Sounds to me like a compromise that is fair for both the big number and the small number crowd.

[Deleted]

We already went over this in detail. Unless the squish is linear solo'ing will be affected.
And even if solo'ing is not intended, why should the game-play be affected by a visual change?

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I never dodged the argument. Read the rest of my post. You have yet to give a good argument for the squish.

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Find an add-on to 'fix' it. Don't let it affect the rest of the playerbase when it is not a problem.
Its not worth the development time.

You find an addon to keep your big numbers so we can enjoy smaller numbers, please don't use BS arguments. You could have green fire as a lock before it was official in the game, doesn't change a f*cking thing.

Why? You don't like seeing big numbers. That makes the numbers smaller. Other people don't want to get weaker. They wouldn't. What's so terrible about seeing an "M" after your health and damage (you already have a K after your health and M after most bosses health bars)?

Sounds to me like a compromise that is fair for both the big number and the small number crowd.

It's not so much about the raw numbers on your screen, it's about what they represent.

When I think off a boomkin doing a million dps than this is what pops to mind, maybe you like playing a la godmode, but I for one do not.

[JohnBrown1917]

You find an addon to keep your big numbers so we can enjoy smaller numbers, please don't use BS arguments. You could have green fire as a lock before it was official in the game, doesn't change a f*cking thing.

It would take development time to implant what you want. I don't care about the numbers on my screen.

Its a visual change that would affect gameplay(solo'ing old raids). How is that a BS argument? How is it taking away devolpment time from things that would actually improve WoW a BS argument?


I'm only saying your 'problem' can be fixed by an add-on. Why should blizzard spend development time to cater to a tiny minority that wants this when a simple add-on could fix it?

[Deleted]

It would take development time to implant what you want. I don't care about the numbers on my screen.

Its a visual change that would affect gameplay(solo'ing old raids). How is that a BS argument? How is it taking away devolpment time from things that would actually improve WoW a BS argument?


I'm only saying your 'problem' can be fixed by an add-on. Why should blizzard spend development time to cater to a tiny minority that wants this when a simple add-on could fix it?

Is it so hard to understand that they can make it so soloing wouldn't be an issue? Blizz can do wathever the f*ck they want with the game, they could make every boss have 1hp. So yes, it's a BS argument as anything is possible.

[jbombard]

Some people don't like the feeling of godmoding...which is the feeling you get with bignumbers. I like the sense of feeling like a hero who isn't almighty.

I know this isn't game related but I'd like to take DBZ as an example. The powerlevels grow so big they loose any meaning. In the end it's still 2 dudes fighting, but they feel so strong it's just silly.

Nobody is arguing that mechanic wise is doesn't mean a flying f*ck...it's the overall feeling and gameplay expirience that changes even if it doesn't mean shit on paper.

The end of Wrath felt way more godmode than the game does now, yet had smaller numbers go figure.

[Deleted]

The end of Wrath felt way more godmode than the game does now, yet had smaller numbers go figure.

I explained my example, care to explain your point of view?

Also, I'l check this thread tommorow..sleepy now. Goodnight my beloved MMOC.

[jbombard]

Is it so hard to understand that they can make it so soloing wouldn't be an issue? Blizz can do wathever the f*ck they want with the game, they could make every boss have 1hp. So yes, it's a BS argument as anything is possible.

They can do whatever they want, but what they want to do is probably not break the game. They want content to not be a complete joke when doing it at appropriate levels in a group, but they also don't want to break content for high levels. They can do whatever they want, but whatever they want to do requires development time for old content that would be better spent on new content. For what is basically a display issue.

[JohnBrown1917]

Is it so hard to understand that they can make it so soloing wouldn't be an issue? Blizz can do wathever the f*ck they want with the game, they could make every boss have 1hp. So yes, it's a BS argument as anything is possible.

Its not a linear squish, it will be affected.

Indeed, they can do whatever they want. How does that help your argument? You're not making arguments as to how it would improve the game as a whole, and why it would be worth the huge development time when you have add-ons.

Why are you so rude anyway?