Why do lesser skilled players feel entitled to see content?

[Deleted]

My answer to this question can easily be answered by my situation.

I am a massive WoW fan. I have played pretty much since EU release. Never missed a monthly payment or anything. In the past I have raided, and I'm pretty damned good at it as well.

My partner started playing WoW during TBC. Also never missed a payment. Also raided in the past. We met in a guild and stuck with each other and since then have always raided together, and enjoy it.

Fast forward a few years, and things have changed which we have NO control over. We have two kids, our 12 year old (my stepson) and our 3 year old. Our 3 year old has autism, has no verbal communication skills at all, very little body awareness and as such needs constant supervision and to top it all off has erratic sleeping patterns. Because of out little one, we are unable to put int he time needed to raid properly. As such, we love LFR because it allows us to raid together still in small chunks in the times we can manage with everything else we have to do.

TO say that we should not be able to see the content we pay for them to make is like telling someone that owns a sport car that they aren't allowed to drive it unless its quiet because they don't drive it fast. Its a completely ridiculous argument and if it was used by a company that car company would soon go bust. Same goes for WoW. People pay for content, they deserve, in any way they can, to be able to see as much of the content as they would like.

[Brodeo]

Technically, you can skip the easy content as a dedicated Heroic raider, because fully-upped Heroic gear is superior to the LFR gear from next tier. Also, you unlock Heroic by doing Normal, not LFR--if you feel pressured to run LFR as a Heroic raider this late into an expansion, I would say you should re-examine the pressure you or your guild put on you for sidegrades and downgrades.

Most hardcore guilds blow through normal mode in week 1 as little more than a speed bump. I said before you kill the boss as it is meant to be killed, youve already seen it die once. At least. You're acting like the requirements of a heroic guild are all self-imposed, but if you want to be competitive, you do what you need to do or you get replaced by someone who did. One lazy asshole who wont do anything besides heroic to get their gear is usually a toxic member of the guild anyway.

[Deleted]

Hehe yeah, Kamran doesn't realize that even KT in vanilla was nothing compared to Absolute Virtue.

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Need I say more ?

Of course a game with less players will also have less GOOD players in it.

[ngc2440]

Seeing as you just now killed ji-kun on normal i guess i assumed you wouldnt be killing lei shen anytime soon. either way, do you REALLY think youll still feel motivated at that point or are you just trying to make a point?

Aww you are soo adorable when you are being condescending. It is as if you cannot comprehend that people start late in a given patch and have to play catch up. Instead of being carried they go with a group of people in the same position.

Also I do feel as though I will still be motivated. For you, mind blowing stuff. For me, it is why I play the game. To have fun. If I don't have fun I stop playing, not bitch on a forum like a five year old who notices everyone else got the special balloon he got.

[Dyptheria]

Remember the outcry in the start of Cata regarding 5 man heroic difficulty?

That's because people were softened by Wrath, where in a 5-man you could chain-pull and AoE everything in sight. I've been playing since Vanilla 1.6, and before we had Heroic anything, you HAD to know how to pull, otherwise it was a wipe. This continued into TBC (where Heroics were introduced, and yes they actually were hard), but everything got easier in Wrath.

When Cata dropped, everyone was in shock - the difficuly level effectively went "back to normal" - and complained loudly. The instances were dependent on intelligent pulls and the execution of tactics, not mass nuking. Subscriptions seemingly took a hit, Blizzard panicked and the nerf bat came a-swingin'. Coupled with this is the perception that since you pay for access to the game, you should automatically be able to see all content no matter what.

I'm no longer a raider, but here's my opinion. LFR is aimed at being able to PuG a raid instance. Back in the days of Vanilla and TBC, there were servers where players used to PuG the current raids. Considering how haphazard pugging can be, those were damned good players who - despite not necessarily playing in the same group every week - knew the tactics and knew their jobs. That won't work today, because the casual players are not just casual time-wise, but also effort-wise - for the time that they do play, they likely won't give 100% effort and focus (like don't stand in the fire/void zone/slime/whatever).

Blizzard has decided to embrace these players, hence not just LFR but its chosen difficulty level.

[Deleted]

1: The "lesser skilled" players pay the same as you do.
2: There are a lot more "lesser skilled" players than elite players
3: Blizzard is a business
4: Keeping "lesser skilled" players happy makes a lot more money than keeping elite players happy
5: See point 3

Its not harder then this to understand.

[Brodeo]

You don't have to do LFR, ever. If HC guilds are forcing people to do LFR, then that's their fault, not the game.

You dont seem to understand that personal needs/experience are an irrelevant argument to the state of the game as a whole. I stopped raiding because i have other responsibilities now, but i am able to step back and see how things affect the game as a whole.

[Thage]

Most hardcore guilds blow through normal mode in week 1 as little more than a speed bump. I said before you kill the boss as it is meant to be killed, youve already seen it die once. At least. You're acting like the requirements of a heroic guild are all self-imposed, but if you want to be competitive, you do what you need to do or you get replaced by someone who did. One lazy asshole who wont do anything besides heroic to get their gear is usually a toxic member of the guild anyway.

You can do most if not all of what you need to do on Normal; as I noted--beyond the first tier of any given expansion, upgraded Heroic gear outpowers the next tier's LFR on purpose so Heroic players didn't feel forced into LFR. If you set foot into LFR as a Heroic raider, it's on you, not on Blizz. You're not even considered in the design process because you're not the demographic it's designed for--it'd be like Blizz designing honor gains around people like me who BG like once a month on the off chance that we might go into the BG and don't want us getting mad that it's not suited to our needs.

[Iglou]

People keep throwing around the word "skilled".

Realise that it's a lot less about skill and a lot more about time. A lot of people have the skill required for hardcore raiding. Very few have the time for it.

I strongly disagree with this.
Yes time is involved in this matter but most of the people won't have the skill for hardcore raiding.

Let's just have a clear discussion over this. What is hardcore raiding? Considering the time since 5.2 hit, it has to be 13/13HM guild - which currently represents 1.43% of the population (wowprogress data). If we considerer something different, let's say 10/13 HM (but DA, Lei Shen and Ra Den) it's still only 4.52% of the player base.

Now let's assume that some people don't have time but still are as good. Let's say that for those people with less time available the equivalent of a 13HM could be something like a 5+HM.
Currently:
5 boss down (the 5 considered to be very easy) - 11.1% of the population.
6 boss down - 7.04%.

So yes people do throw the word 'skilled' for a good reason.
Skilled player will achieve some 10+ HM even with a limited gaming time before 5.4 hits - if they can spend some 2-3 nights raiding.
Lower skilled players will not.
Skilled player will more time will achieve that 10+ HM faster.
What I am saying is that time needs to be taken into consideration. But at equivalent skilled level it will only take longer to reach the same goal (same time spend but on a bigger number of weeks).

Let be fully honest - people progressing through heroics are limited by 3 things: gear, time and skill.
The first two are obviously increased over time as gear improves and as a direct consequence on killing / confirming a boss : takes less time/is easier. So even for people with less gaming time, the first week on - let's say H Durumu - they will be able to spend 1 hour on the boss. Next week will maybe be slightly more. And at some point they will be able to spend a full night on this guy.

Currently (based on the average ilvl of people) there is only one single thing that prevent's player from killing a boss - and it's not the enrage timer. The one thing that stands between a guild and a kill is the ability to perfectly perform a first kill fight (meaning handling mechanics, using cooldowns, avoiding damage/voids/whatever). This is usually called 'skilled' but could also be named 'practice'.

[ngc2440]

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png
Need I say more ?

Of course a game with less players will also have less GOOD players in it.

It is if you are being willfully ignorant. *shakeshead*

[Varjo410]

Why do you care if lesser skilled players see a watered down version of what you experience?

[Brodeo]

Aww you are soo adorable when you are being condescending. It is as if you cannot comprehend that people start late in a given patch and have to play catch up. Instead of being carried they go with a group of people in the same position.

Also I do feel as though I will still be motivated. For you, mind blowing stuff. For me, it is why I play the game. To have fun. If I don't have fun I stop playing, not bitch on a forum like a five year old who notices everyone else got the special balloon he got.

I dont raid anymore, so i dont see your point. I (and many others) dont give a shit what other players do or dont have. Its the fact that the method in which they acquire it directly hinders core aspects of the game. PUGs and GDKP runs are prime examples.

[jazzyy]

better question: why does op ask such a clear bait question other than to confirm his views

i mean honestly if you're such a highly skilled player you probably have enough intelligence to realize that lesser skilled players want more content because they want their WoW fix easier and less grind. more players want to do the same thing over so they look towards the next avenue and when they realized they couldn't accomplish it easier they had their voice heard that the game was too hard.


the funny part is that these lesser skilled players have been funding your game. think about it, if 1% of the playerbase saw naxx in vanilla that means 99% of all players were paying for a game they weren't even experiencing, and were funding Blizzard to develop this game that caters to players they aren't even a part of.

doesn't take a genius to realize why they got mad

[Elian]

kinda ironic that most of the people who call themselves "casuals" in this forum has more than 1000+ posts
no time, am i rite?

[Mancowski]

The sooner you realize the majority of the people playing this game are either under skilled or don't have the time/patience to play in a normal/hardmode raiding guild, the sooner you will realize that the game is slowly catering to the majority now, instead of the 10%.

Business is about money. You make more money when you try to please more people.

Simple hooker logic, right there. haha

[Itisamuh]

You dont seem to understand that personal needs/experience are an irrelevant argument to the state of the game as a whole. I stopped raiding because i have other responsibilities now, but i am able to step back and see how things affect the game as a whole.

Apparently not too well, since your opinion is in the minority. LFR does not hurt the game in any way. The only thing it hurts is the ego of raiders who enjoyed being the only ones who could have fun in the past.

Why do more skilled players feel entitled to get better rewards? Hm?

I would love to hear the answer to this.

[Wayne25uk]

Why do they?

If you are a terrible player who has no chance to ever get into a raiding guild or pug normal modes, why do you expect to see raid content? Thats the reason LFR was implemented but WHY do terribads demand content just for them? LFR was made to see content, but why did Blizzard do so?

I just don't understand how hard can it be to read up on your class for 1 hour, ask a better player for tips and then improve yourself to get into raiding...


I think WoW is going down the toilet if something isn't done soon to stop catering to the majority. Dont get me wrong, im fine with catering to casuals, but not like this. Not this way with giving welfare "special" content just for them rather than incentive to improve your gaming skills.

I've been there, clueless. I learned, asked better players. I've been high rated in PvP and raided top PvE content but we ALL started on the bottom some time. Why cant those who run LFR do the same?

Lets put your question into another context.

"Why should us rich people worry about poor people,we earned our money they dont deserve anything,they deserve to rot in the gutter"

Basically same thing if you ask me,hope your proud of yourself OP....

[Unalorian]

I strongly disagree with this.
Yes time is involved in this matter but most of the people won't have the skill for hardcore raiding.

I am pretty sure he wrote "a lot" of people could be raiding hardcore but can't, not "most" of the people.

[ngc2440]

I dont raid anymore, so i dont see your point. I (and many others) dont give a shit what other players do or dont have. Its the fact that the method in which they acquire it directly hinders core aspects of the game. PUGs and GDKP runs are prime examples.

I don't see your point in that. So people who raid a weaker version of a raid get a weaker version of gear someone hinders a core aspect of the game? What aspect are we talking about here?

[Thage]

kinda ironic that most of the people who call themselves "casuals" in this forum has more than 1000+ posts
no time, am i rite?

That's not irony, that's you attempting to pull out a correlation from where the sun don't shine. People can consider themselves casual for many reasons--I do it because I don't PvE seriously and I never PvP. Most of my time ingame is spent RPing and knocking out dailies for cool stuff I found on rep vendors or downing LFR wings with a beer in hand (sometimes a watermelon Four Loko) to kill an afternoon. By the metric of how much time I invest into character progression/group content, that rates me on the casual end of the slider, though on the 'time invested in building my character in a metaphorical sense/talking on forums about a game I love with other people who love the same game' sense I skew on the other side.