Brothels - Yes or No?

[RaoBurning]

The economic times can't be used as an excuse for perpetuating human trafficking.

Good thing nobody here is advocating that! Whew. Only thing I see people pushing for is the legalization and regulation of the transaction of funds for services between two rational, willing, adult agents.

[Xarkan]

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cn...-same-problem/



There is no perfect solution, but Sweden is doing far better than Denmark.



As said - a hundred times already - Legalization only makes the problem worse. You need to criminalize the purchase of sex if you want to get results.

I have not read the following link but the title seems to talk about how very right you are.. go read

http://feministire.wordpress.com/201...d-trafficking/

[TEHPALLYTANK]

No, there is far too much potential for abuse.

[Deleted]

Good thing nobody here is advocating that! Whew. Only thing I see people pushing for is the legalization and regulation of the transaction of funds for services between two rational, willing, adult agents.

It's the "willing" part that's shady.

[Woodgela]

This whole mentality should be erased from people's minds. It's the same bullshit that people say about gays. "I find homosexuality unnatural, so I am 100% against gay marriage." How can you be so against something that has absolutely no effect on your life? Seriously, you don't have to participate in the act, and you don't even have to see it!

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Both things have an impact on people's lives you're just trying to sugarcoat one of them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with brothels, sex between a man and a woman is a healthy thing. Its a service like any other, an agreement between 2 consenting parties. Gay marriage and gay sex is not however. Issues like the latter cause people to be even more PC than usual and just further limits what people can and can't say. Its another layer of censorship in society that we don't need and it creates and atmosphere that people aren't comfortable with because it is unnatural. In other words it affects me, you and everyone else in the developed world. I disagree with you 100%.

[Deleted]

I have not read the following link but the title seems to talk about how very right you are.. go read

http://feministire.wordpress.com/201...d-trafficking/

I see your data and reply with my 2013 study: http://www.lse.ac.uk/geographyAndEnv...us-REVISED.pdf

[Cybran]

I have not read the following link but the title seems to talk about how very right you are.. go read

http://feministire.wordpress.com/201...d-trafficking/

Her assumption is based only on an increase of police work. When you look at the table you see that the police uncovered only 15 cases of human trafficking for forced prostitution in 2008 and 31 in 2009 and 2010. It's entirely possible that they just have a better legal to framework to go after criminals than in 2008.

But when the only metric available says the exact opposite of what is claimed, the claim becomes more than “unsubstantiated”. It becomes false – and probably wilfully dishonest.

Sorry, but I would rather trust Anti-trafficking organizations and police working with the victims over a blogger with access to word press.

[Xarkan]

I see your data and reply with my 2013 study: http://www.lse.ac.uk/geographyAndEnv...us-REVISED.pdf

Or
http://factsaresacred.ie/politics/ha...ned-in-sweden/

Edit: Ehmn should say i was not looking at conclusions on the page but numbers, the tables are more easily readable there than in your wall of text legalese white paper

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Sorry, but I would rather trust Anti-trafficking organizations and police working with the victims over a blogger with access to word press.

Please do not link things so it looks like i said something i did not, i would not use the word metric and it makes me seem more intellectual than i am. I resent your misrepresentation

[Hyve]

There seems to be a lot of discussion going on here about the morality of Brothels, but you're getting a few key points.

No doubt if prostitution became safer more women (and men) would get involved, but, prostitution occurs anyway, and rather then being in safe, clean and protected environments, they're working in their own homes, or in cars, or sometimes even just in the streets and alleys.

Every year a number of women are raped, abused, beaten, and even killed because they're working in dangerous environments, and not all of these women are the dregs of society. There are many women who are aspiring doctors, artists, lawyers and many other intelligent and typically intelligent areas of society that these women are trying to get into, but just need the extra money to do so, and working in a store on minimum wage just doesn't cut it.

The issue with the system is that prostitution is more profitable then what some here would deem an honest job. I'm not suggesting we put minimum wage laws on prostitution, but what I do see as an issue is, that without Brothels being legal and monitored, and with many jobs not covering the daily / weekly / monthly financial needs of the individuals, these women are almost pressured into prostitution.

So really, the question isn't whether or not you agree with prostitution, on whatever grounds, but the question is;

Are you happy knowing that with out without legalised brothels, these women would still be prostitutes, and that without a legally operated and maintained brothel, they're likely to suffer abuse in their line of work.

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Sorry, but I would rather trust Anti-trafficking organizations and police working with the victims over a blogger with access to word press.

Government departments have shown themselves time and again, completely incompetent at monitoring and safe guarding individuals in high-risk jobs such as Prostitution, purely because of the social implications of it, due to that fact that they're seen as scum, and the social dregs because their job is seen typically as vile, dirty and wrong ...

[Xarkan]

Her assumption is based only on an increase of police work. When you look at the table you see that the police uncovered only 15 cases of human trafficking for forced prostitution in 2008 and 31 in 2009 and 2010. It's entirely possible that they just have a better legal to framework to go after criminals than in 2008.

I have actually read it even if i claimed i did not. The numbers you can use are the numbers that are known, you can only say what is found not what is not, we do not know. The article specifically says exactly that, it can be an increase in detection while the over all trend is going down, you cannot know beyond the numbers. There has however been an increase in effort at rooting out those dangerous people who buy blow jobs, they must be in jail for the sake of society

[Deleted]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with brothels, sex between a man and a woman is a healthy thing.

Not necessarily. It can be quite emotionally/mentally damaging depending on the circumstances.

[Cybran]

Please do not link things so it looks like i said something i did not, i would not use the word metric and it makes me seem more intellectual than i am. I resent your misrepresentation

You linked that Blog post filled with assumptions based on a single table.

There has however been an increase in effort at rooting out those dangerous people who buy blow jobs, they must be in jail for the sake of society

When they contribute to the drugging and exploitation of human beings they should face the consequences.

[Hyve]

When they contribute to the drugging and exploitation of human beings they should face the consequences.

You make that sound as if anyone involved in prostitution, whether the client or the prostitute themselves, are naturally going to be on drugs, and have been trafficked or are part of a network of traffickers.

The fact is though, with legal brothels that require licenses, control, maintenance, registration and monitoring, the chance are you could root out a lot of these issues, and resolve them, and once being a legal prostitute at a registered brothel becomes more attractive, you could get lower rates of crimes related to prostitution.

[Xarkan]

When they contribute to the drugging and exploitation of human beings they should face the consequences.

And when they do not? If 1 in 5 do not care if the girl is a slave does that not mean 4 in 5 cares. You are saying those 4 in 5 belong in jail though, they are the scum of the earth. The lesson from that is only that it is irrelevant if the girl is a slave or not, if the industry persist regardless (and it will) then there is no reason to avoid slaves.

Also.. here is a lesson in board posts.. if you do a [ and follow it with quote=" and then enter some text and follow with a "] then you get a quote start with a text showing where the quote comes from. You end the quote with a [ followed by a good slash and a quote and a ]

see

[Zazeeth]

I'll just leave this here.

[Cybran]

The lesson from that is only that it is irrelevant if the girl is a slave or not, if the industry persist regardless (and it will) then there is no reason to avoid slaves.

I hope this is not your best argument for legalizing prostitution.

[Hottage]

Legalizing and regulating brothels would go a long way to providing safeguards and protections for the working girls. Prostitution has been around longer than almost any other profession, politicians have been trying to outlaw it for thousands of years (and at the same time, other politicians have been indulging in it's services) and it's never gone away.

At the end of the day, sex sells - that isn't going to change.

It is true that many girls/guys working in prostitution are there out of desperation, and this makes an even stronger case for regulating it. The fact it would be a massive cash cow in tax revenue for government is just an after thought.

I see it as the same as marijuana, both are legalized in Holland (personally I do not partake in either) and it means the coffee houses are clean and well maintained, and the weed isn't cut with ant killer or whatever. In the same vein the whore houses are kept somewhat respectable, and the prostitutes don't have to resort to doing their business in dark alleyways, or alone in the back of some psycho's van.

While I am morally objected to both prostitution and casual drug use, I also see the benefits to bringing these activities out of the shadows, and into the light - where they can be responsibly monitored and safeguards put in place.

[Xarkan]

I hope this is not your best argument for legalizing prostitution.

Don't be silly. I do not have to argue something should be legal, everything is legal as a start, you make things illegal you do not make them legal. To make them illegal you have to argue that they should be and it is your argument that need be flawless and give a perfect result :P

Edit: ups corrected a legal illegal mix up error

[Cybran]

Don't be silly. I do not have to argue something should be legal, everything is legal as a start, you make things illegal you do not make them legal. To make them illegal you have to argue that they should be and it is your argument that need be flawless and give a perfect result

You are wrong. Prostitution isn't legal in most of Europe nor the US. The places where it was legalized (Holland, Germany and Belgium) saw a dramatic increase in human trafficking and forced prostitution. Sweden where only the purchase of sex is illegal saw a decrease of street prostitution and more prosecuted criminals.

This is enough evidence that making brothels legal is a stupid idea.

[Deleted]

Voted no. Legalizing them sends a message that being a prostitute is ok and acceptable. I think its not, it's something disgusting most people are only willing to do if they feel like they have no other options, MAking it illegal doesn't make the problem go away but it still goes a long way to discourage such things.

This maybe partially true on the whole it is wrong, while living in amsterdam for a while i got to know a few "ladies of the night" from ages 19-28 and all of them were there on their own accord, when i asked the 19 year old (super good looking too) why she does it she replied "i make more money in my six week uni break here than i do all year it pays for uni / rent / bills , also i like sex" she basically makes 35-40k in 6 weeks, she could work a normal job but cba for shit money.