Is Azshara the most powerful non Titan/Old God character in WoW?

[Destinas]

Doesn't her empowerment with Old God-stuff show that she's weaker than Sargeras and (maybe KJ/Arch) as she was indeed empowered by them? Sargeras is stronger than an Old God, and if Azshara got stronger by their power isn't she still weaker? It's like Azshara has a badass sword, but Sargeras and maybe KJ has machine guns, she then gets upgraded to a handgun (since Sarg>Old God).. so she's still weaker.

This might only apply to Sargeras and not KJ/Arch, but in my mind KJ is more powerful than Azshara too.

Also: How much does someone like Mannoroth really know about how powerful Sargeras and his left & right hand are/were? Sure, he was quite high ranked, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had complete understanding of their power, does it? D:

He tried simply crushing her, and she stood there, unblinking, using magic to ward him off without trying. He was sent to Zin-Azshari to help power the portal for the demons, and he was implied to be a rank below Archimonde within the Legion.

[BHD]

He tried simply crushing her, and she stood there, unblinking, using magic to ward him off without trying. He was sent to Zin-Azshari to help power the portal for the demons, and he was implied to be a rank below Archimonde within the Legion.

That's not really an answer, though. He himself was bested by an orc powered by his own blood, so how smart was he really? I get the feeling that the leaders of the man'ari eredar are on waaaay higher level of power than a pit lord, and that said pit lord wouldn't really grasp how powerful they really were.

[TJ]

-When Illidan receives his "gift" from Sargeras, his eyes are burned away and his skin is cracked, showing bone. Vashj hands him the iconic blindfold so he doesn't upset the Highborne with his appearance. Azshara comes in, and with Illidan's new sight, he sees her as a glowing being like the moon. Illidan's sight allows him to see magic and how powerful it is. He makes a note of how deceptively powerful Azshara is.
-Mannoroth gets pissed off with Azshara at one point during the book, and attempts to crush her with his hand. Before he can touch her, she puts up an invisible force field with ease, her expression not changing in the slightest. She looks over his outburst and walks away. Mannoroth himself then compares her power to be equal to that of Archimonde, or perhaps Sargeras.
-It's implied she has the ability to charm people without even casting a spell, thus showing why everyone loved her (without anyone ever being told what she ever did to help the night elf people).
-She knows quite a bit about the mechanics of magic itself. Xavius wants to create a portal using the Well of Eternity, in which he succeeded, but it was too weak to allow powerful demons (much less Sargeras) to come into Azeroth. Azshara suggests that he cut off the pylons surrounding the Well that allow other cities to use its magic freely. Xavius hadn't thought of that, and admits she truly is amazing.
-Azshara feels that she is so powerful (and beautiful) that the only being worthy of being her mate is a god - which she sees Sargeras as. Xavius wants to gain Sargeras' favor to rule Azeroth, and have the power to make Azshara his consort. Even after he is changed into a Satyr, however, he doesn't follow through with this plan.
-She has always been interested in the Well of Eternity. We don't know what the old palace or capital was named before Azshara became queen, but she moved her palace to the edge of the Well when she ascended to the throne. Possibly due to a charm spell, the people insisted they rename the capital Zin-Azshari (Glory of Azshara, in the "old tongue").
-When the Well exploded, she still assumed Sargeras was going to come and save her and her people. Still, she waited inside the palace as her Highborne and Vashj were freaking out. The only time of weakness shown in the trilogy is when the black waters of the Well were destroying the palace. She tried to put up a force field to stop the waters, and she did, but the Well's powers were too much. In the end, it's suggested they simply negated her own powers, and she had to let them down. She was then drowning, and heard the voice of (seemingly) an Old God (N'zoth, most likely).
-She is now transformed into a naga, bolstered in power by the Old God that transformed her. Also, she has the powers of Neptulon all to herself to control the sea.

Are these actual quotes from the book? I doubt the underlined part greatly. She might be near Archi/KJ, but she is nowhere near Sarg, pretty much nobody is apart from Aman'Thul. Archimonde and Mannoroth are described as fleas in comparison to Sarg.

[Deleted]

From wowwikki explains when mannoroth tried to attack azshara.

"Enraged by both his own failure and the questions asked by the Queen, he nearly attacked Azshara, but quickly realized the folly of such an attempt when he realized that Azshara kept inside her a power to which only Sargeras, Kil'jaeden or Archimonde would prove superior."

So yes, she is.

[TJ]

From wowwikki explains when mannoroth tried to attack azshara.

"Enraged by both his own failure and the questions asked by the Queen, he nearly attacked Azshara, but quickly realized the folly of such an attempt when he realized that Azshara kept inside her a power to which only Sargeras, Kil'jaeden or Archimonde would prove superior."

So yes, she is.

Prove superior is very vague. It doesn't say only just prove superior or prove superior by a big margin.

[Destinas]

Are these actual quotes from the book? I doubt the underlined part greatly. She might be near Archi/KJ, but she is nowhere near Sarg, pretty much nobody is apart from Aman'Thul. Archimonde and Mannoroth are described as fleas in comparison to Sarg.

Yes, that's actually from the book. After he tries to crush her, he says to himself that he feels she's that powerful.

That's not really an answer, though. He himself was bested by an orc powered by his own blood, so how smart was he really? I get the feeling that the leaders of the man'ari eredar are on waaaay higher level of power than a pit lord, and that said pit lord wouldn't really grasp how powerful they really were.

You have a point, I didn't explain it well. There were three high-ranked demons sent to Zin-Azshari through the portal Xavius created. Each one was sent by Sargeras himself as a representative to power up the portal even more so Sargeras could be sent through eventually. First was Hakkar the Houndmaster, who seems to have been a terrorguard like Omor in Ramps. When he ultimately failed, Mannoroth was sent by Sargeras. He was depicted, at the time, as a ruthless and extremely powerful being. He was a very high-ranked demon within the Burning Legion. Though KJ wasn't mentioned much in the trilogy, Archimonde was. He was sent in after Mannoroth failed, and his power dwarfed that of Mannoroth. In fact, the pit lord was afraid of Archimonde, knowing he was so much weaker. There is some interaction between Mannoroth and Archimonde in the books, and their actions within the books show how much more powerful Archimonde is.

All in all, pit lords are more brute strength, in which you pointed out. However, there is a lot of interaction in the books which personally show how much stronger Azshara and Archimonde are than Mannoroth. Unfortunately, Azshara never once speaks with Archimonde directly, or has any interaction with him. Mannoroth was still a highly regarded demon, however, sent by Sargeras himself to add his magical might to the portal so Archimonde could come through. He's still able to detect how powerful something is. He feels if Azshara is stronger than him, then she must be at the very least on par with the Eredar.

[Deleted]

True, but remenber that the aspect were the ones who used the power of the dragon soul to stop the well... Malfurion was the one who destroyed it but he couldn't have done anything if the Dragons weren't there

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Yeah, but now she have the power of the Old Gods at her side... so... is the same thing

Ok folks by lore nad common sence i put the ranking this way. But it is hard beacuse Raw power can be deafeted by cunning like we have seen many times....

Full powered old god > Seargeras > Titan Council > Azhara ( with neptulons trident, old god powered) > Slightly after: Kiljeaden, Archimonde > Powered deathwing > Lichking (can see the future) and most cunning by my point/ lore > Lei shen (Little bit Titan empowered) > Elemental lords > Deathwings children onyxia.netharion I think Mannaroth share their place. > Illidan > tichoundreus (dont now how that dreadlords names spell) / was killed by illidan. -------->

------> And then regular god charakters like thrall and malfurion first then jaina varyan baine and so on..... Medivhs place is hard..... But by the lore and speculation when he had sargeras spirit inside him even before deathwing. Beacuse in lore statment deathwing feared medivh beacuse he knowed he had sargeras spirit inside him. And dont now with place the Velens friends the naru will be statment...

[Triangulum]

I think all of you forgot that Nozdormu still exists. He can control TIME, ultimately able to manipulate any situation to his advantage.

But, you could argue that ever since Deathwing died, he lost his aspect powers and is essentially useless...

Also, this seems more geared to bad characters, what about the good guys?

[Destinas]

I think all of you forgot that Nozdormu still exists. He can control TIME, ultimately able to manipulate any situation to his advantage.

Not anymore. He can use time now, but he no longer controls it thanks to Dragon Soul's ending cinematic.

[Deleted]

Aegwynn is the strongest non-Titan/old god character. She defeated the Avatar of Sargaras. And she is the mother of Medivh, another strong non-titan/non-god character. I think Azshara is nowhere near to her.

Sargeras lost on purpose to make her believe she won while he corrupted her unborn child Medivh.

[Deleted]

Uh... We most certainly can kill the LK, we already did with Arthas. Just because they CHOSE to put a new LK in place to keep the Scourge from running free is irrelevant.

Yea but Lk was toying wiht Tirion and azeroths greatest champions (who deafeted Lei shen , rangaros ans so on) But Lk was just Poff kileld all but was not expecting an suprise attack by tirion empowered by the light. AND frostmourne was weekened while we helped terenas do it. Now maybe by raw power but he was going to raise nalagrond the dragon who was all the aspect combined. SO his necrmantic powers was to be feared and he grow in power by each soul he tooked.

[BHD]

You have a point, I didn't explain it well. There were three high-ranked demons sent to Zin-Azshari through the portal Xavius created. Each one was sent by Sargeras himself as a representative to power up the portal even more so Sargeras could be sent through eventually. First was Hakkar the Houndmaster, who seems to have been a terrorguard like Omor in Ramps. When he ultimately failed, Mannoroth was sent by Sargeras. He was depicted, at the time, as a ruthless and extremely powerful being. He was a very high-ranked demon within the Burning Legion. Though KJ wasn't mentioned much in the trilogy, Archimonde was. He was sent in after Mannoroth failed, and his power dwarfed that of Mannoroth. In fact, the pit lord was afraid of Archimonde, knowing he was so much weaker. There is some interaction between Mannoroth and Archimonde in the books, and their actions within the books show how much more powerful Archimonde is.

All in all, pit lords are more brute strength, in which you pointed out. However, there is a lot of interaction in the books which personally show how much stronger Azshara and Archimonde are than Mannoroth. Unfortunately, Azshara never once speaks with Archimonde directly, or has any interaction with him. Mannoroth was still a highly regarded demon, however, sent by Sargeras himself to add his magical might to the portal so Archimonde could come through. He's still able to detect how powerful something is. He feels if Azshara is stronger than him, then she must be at the very least on par with the Eredar.

I guess that is a very fair assumption to make. I have to admit my entire knowledge of the lore comes from the wikis and the game, I haven't read a single novel apart from the short stories (I recently bought most, tho!). If Mannoroth was indeed that highly ranked within the Legion, it's only fair to assume that if Azshara is stronger than he is, she must be at the level of of the ones above him, which would only leave Arch/KJ/Sarg. But from the reading I actually have done, I get the impression that the gap between KJ/Arch and Mannoroth is so huge, that just because Azshara is stronger than Mannoroth she doesn't necessarily have to be on the level of the very next in line of Sargeras.

[Wiyld]

Eh, I think Garrosh is gonna be a lot stronger than people think. He's absorbing all the power in Y'Shaarj's heart, after he used the Vale of Eternal Blossoms water to revive it. Thats a massive increase in power.

Would you say its...over 9000?

[Destinas]

I guess that is a very fair assumption to make. I have to admit my entire knowledge of the lore comes from the wikis and the game, I haven't read a single novel apart from the short stories (I recently bought most, tho!). If Mannoroth was indeed that highly ranked within the Legion, it's only fair to assume that if Azshara is stronger than he is, she must be at the level of of the ones above him, which would only leave Arch/KJ/Sarg. But from the reading I actually have done, I get the impression that the gap between KJ/Arch and Mannoroth is so huge, that just because Azshara is stronger than Mannoroth she doesn't necessarily have to be on the level of the very next in line of Sargeras.

I have my personal doubts about her being as strong as Sargeras, but I would guess she would be about as strong as Archimonde, personally. It's hinted at that several times in the books by the narrator and some of the characters themselves. However, she's not as strong as Sargeras, imo, considering she's strong due to things created by Titans or empowered by Old Gods and their creations.

Read those books sometime. She's depicted very well. It's because of those books that I love the character.

[BHD]

Not anymore. He can use time now, but he no longer controls it thanks to Dragon Soul's ending cinematic.

What if the Nozdormu from before that event went to the future?! ^^ Imagine battling Aman'Thul who granted him his power over time, gotta suck if your opponent knows exactly what you'll do before you do it.

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I have my personal doubts about her being as strong as Sargeras, but I would guess she would be about as strong as Archimonde, personally. It's hinted at that several times in the books by the narrator and some of the characters themselves. However, she's not as strong as Sargeras, imo, considering she's strong due to things created by Titans or empowered by Old Gods and their creations.

Read those books sometime. She's depicted very well. It's because of those books that I love the character.

Oh, I will. When I'm done with my current book I will start with WotA and (in due time) read everything.

[Deleted]

I think the whole Bronze Dragonflights control over time is whacky. When you kill Deathwing Nozdormu says he ties all the timelines together so that Deathwing is dead in all futures but I honestly doubt he has such a power. It makes no sense considering the Bronze dragonflights previous actions. It feels very poorly written and shouldn't have been there at all imo.

[Destinas]

I think the whole Bronze Dragonflights control over time is whacky. When you kill Deathwing Nozdormu says he ties all the timelines together so that Deathwing is dead in all futures but I honestly doubt he has such a power. It makes no sense considering the Bronze dragonflights previous actions. It feels very poorly written and shouldn't have been there at all imo.

The actual amount of Nozdormu's power is very strangely written. In most books where he makes an appearance, he is weak and lost in all of time. He's depicted different in Day of the Dragon, where he is simply in an endless desert collecting buildings and people from different periods of time for his "personal collection". He is said to control all time and space...yet continually gets lost in the timeways he was supposed to protect. He was also lost for most of WoW until the middle of Cataclysm. He is indeed powerful, but it's never explained well at all.

[Deleted]

If she is so powerful, why is she hiding?

[Deleted]

Well said OP - Azshara was crazy powerful 10,000 years ago and has been growing her power in hiding since then. She'd make a worthy expansion final boss.

I'm kinda hoping we face her in a Great Seas expansion first, then take N'Zoth down in an Emerald Dream expansion.



The title refers to characters that are neither Titans nor Old Gods - Old God empowered entities still count.

I think the Emerald Dream will be a hub like Firelands for N'zoth, most of the expansion will be Azshara and how we found out she used to remains of the well to create a portal to the nightmare.

[Lime]

If she is so powerful, why is she hiding?

Who says that she's hiding? She could be busy planning something.