What is the tipping point on pay to win in this game?

[cityguy193]

Yes. Even buying extra coins for extra rolls or to eliminate RNG, as long as it doesn't affect the current tier, only a previous one.

Why wouldn't I care? Well, the only thing it's going to do is increase the rate of "catching up" and catching up to the bottom rung of the ladder isn't a bad thing, and if you want to pay for it to go faster I can't say I'm that bothered - it's your money and it won't be cheap so if you want to do so then go for it.

It'd be pay to win as soon as an item with useful stats which is relevant to the top tier of the game at that current time, is released. Anything earlier than that is just nothing really. It'd be like buying heirlooms - good for you, you can now reach below-everyone-else faster and all it did was cost you a load of money.

So you would entirely be okay with this.

For 20$, you can buy a max level alt with max professions of your choosing. With LFR gear of the current tier, and max riding enabled.

[Lochton]

So you are claiming that buying levels is pay to win, but I would argue that it is a shortcut in the same regard as increased experience is.
What if we get the increased experience boost in the store, it allows a person to level to max from level 1 in the same time frame as it allows a person to level from level 80 to max without the potion.
Technically its like you get a free 80 levels in that regard, so there would be nothing wrong with buying a level 80 alt.

An XP boost isn't not the same. You still have to work for it. Buying a character with gear is different, even without. You don't have to work much for it. But the XP boost is just a rested XP for the amount of time it lasts.

And then lets add another part, the XP boost still doens't have an excistance on the market. It's only been datamined for research.

[Deleted]

Years ago, in vanilla, a blizzard admin boasted that everything in their game, including mounts, would be able to be obtained by anyone who just payed the sub. Let me dig it up if its archived somewhere

Like the Scarab mount? >.<

[MerinPally]

No, but it's still P2W, as you pay money for a short cut. If this were to excist, I would weep inside. I already weep when I see resurrection scrolled people, but I know it's a way to bring people back. So they get a lvl 80 with full greens to make them come play with their friends. (Not done it, but even think the lvl 80 rule is only is you chose the server their friend is on, and if you have a character to use it on)

But again, I don't think Blizzard would add that either. Not really a good outwards view to cater to the ultra-lazy.

How is a below max level character which they have no idea how to play, going to help them win the game?

They'll be max level faster? Ok, but it's not until they start doing things at max level it has any impact. The only thing you'd win on and get an advantage is going to be shit like the farm at Halfhill, you'll get to grow stuff sooner. Ooooh, I'm shaking in my wellington boots.

There is no benefit at all to starting at lvl 80 than there is at lvl 1 apart from a few hours of your life leveling to there.

You don't see the top raiders saying "Shit we need this, quick, someone get a char to lvl 80 that'll save us and give us the edge!!!!!"

[cityguy193]

An XP boost isn't not the same. You still have to work for it. Buying a character with gear is different, even without. You don't have to work much for it. But the XP boost is just a rested XP for the amount of time it lasts.

And then lets add another part, the XP boost still doens't have an excistance on the market. It's only been datamined for research.

They say nothing to indicate that it will not come to the US and Europe regions.

- - - Updated - - -

Like the Scarab mount? >.<

That mount is a special case, and even then it was something people had to prepare and work for.

[Evil Inside]

So you would entirely be okay with this.

For 20$, you can buy a max level alt with max professions of your choosing. With LFR gear of the current tier, and max riding enabled.

No, THAT would be pay to win. XP boosts/transmog gear/charms are still not p2w. I dont know how we went from transmog gear in the shop to a full geared toon being sold in the shop.

[MerinPally]

So you would entirely be okay with this.

For 20$, you can buy a max level alt with max professions of your choosing. With LFR gear of the current tier, and max riding enabled.

Not the current tier, the previous tier. Read my post. To be honest I probably wouldn't mind even if it was current tier. What advantage are these people going to have over someone who did it the long way? If they're bad, they are still going to be bad and will have no advantage at getting into higher level content. You can't buy "being good at the game" and that's what is going to get you higher than LFR.

[slime]

There is no benefit at all to starting at lvl 80 than there is at lvl 1 apart from a few hours of your life leveling to there.

There is no benefit, but there sure is a down side for everyone who has to play with that alt buying fool. I don't need another lame dick in PvP that doesn't know his class because he bought an 80.. or 90, there are enough bots playing like that already. So, I agree it isn't really p2w - but it is a p2l (pay2lose) for the rest of us playing wow as well that have the misfortune of grouping with a level80-buying nimrod.

[checking facts]

That mount is a special case, and even then it was something people had to prepare and work for.

it's not a special case. if it's in-game, and I can't obtain no matter what, and "a blizzard admin boasted that everything in their game, including mounts, would be able to be obtained by anyone who just payed the sub", than either the admin was wrong, or blizzard changed their minds in ahn'qiraj. I pay the sub, after all.

[cityguy193]

No, THAT would be pay to win. XP boosts/transmog gear/charms are still not p2w. I dont know how we went from transmog gear in the shop to a full geared toon being sold in the shop.

LFR isnt full geared.

[Lochton]

How is a below max level character which they have no idea how to play, going to help them win the game?

They'll be max level faster? Ok, but it's not until they start doing things at max level it has any impact. The only thing you'd win on and get an advantage is going to be shit like the farm at Halfhill, you'll get to grow stuff sooner. Ooooh, I'm shaking in my wellington boots.

There is no benefit at all to starting at lvl 80 than there is at lvl 1 apart from a few hours of your life leveling to there.

You don't see the top raiders saying "Shit we need this, quick, someone get a char to lvl 80 that'll save us and give us the edge!!!!!"

Your view is flagged on one thing. I am pointing that it's P2W because some one is too lazy to go through the content, he wants a short cut so he can get up among the high levels faster. That's P2W.

And to some other person, claiming that 100% bonus XP, for what I believe is going to be limited so you would have to top up. But claims that it'll sky rocket you through everything and it'll be the same as buying a character you didn't even work for. That is P2W if you don't wish to do anything in the game.

And honestly, if you don't wish to play the game, then don't play and leave it. It'll be better for the community to get rid of people who doesn't wish to take their time to actually do the content. It wouldn't benefit Blizzard at all.

But the non-excisting XP boost may benefit a little, as this person is still depending on having to go through the hard worked content, This person still have to do quests, dungeons and more and gather gear.

That is more beneficial for Blizzard. And it'll save top players from having a guy going, "I just rerolled char, by buying one, thanks for taking me into the raid, how do I play this?" or what the hell people would say.

But every step has an effect on the game. Again, this time shorter if you don't wish to read. XP boost = You still see content, Premade Char = You're a lazy sod and don't wish to go through the game you paid for.

[cityguy193]

it's not a special case. if it's in-game, and I can't obtain no matter what, and "a blizzard admin boasted that everything in their game, including mounts, would be able to be obtained by anyone who just payed the sub", than either the admin was wrong, or blizzard changed their minds in ahn'qiraj. I pay the sub, after all.

It was obtainable by anyone. It was an ingame race. It falls in the same area as the top 0.5% of players in PVP earn a special mount as well.

[Lochton]

They say nothing to indicate that it will not come to the US and Europe regions.

But they say nothing about when, how, duration, price or anything. Heck, might as well just be promotional.

[cityguy193]

Your view is flagged on one thing. I am pointing that it's P2W because some one is too lazy to go through the content, he wants a short cut so he can get up among the high levels faster. That's P2W.

And to some other person, claiming that 100% bonus XP, for what I believe is going to be limited so you would have to top up. But claims that it'll sky rocket you through everything and it'll be the same as buying a character you didn't even work for. That is P2W if you don't wish to do anything in the game.

And honestly, if you don't wish to play the game, then don't play and leave it. It'll be better for the community to get rid of people who doesn't wish to take their time to actually do the content. It wouldn't benefit Blizzard at all.

But the non-excisting XP boost may benefit a little, as this person is still depending on having to go through the hard worked content, This person still have to do quests, dungeons and more and gather gear.

That is more beneficial for Blizzard. And it'll save top players from having a guy going, "I just rerolled char, by buying one, thanks for taking me into the raid, how do I play this?" or what the hell people would say.

But every step has an effect on the game. Again, this time shorter if you don't wish to read. XP boost = You still see content, Premade Char = You're a lazy sod and don't wish to go through the game you paid for.

That is your opinion.
I can get my 2 year old to slap the keyboard consistently, as long as I macro the same thing to every key, and level to max through PVP.
I would argue that the "content" at lower levels isnt really content but an artificial time restriction. It would be a quality of life benefit to buy your way out of it.

[Evil Inside]

LFR isnt full geared.

Geared nonetheless. Blizzard are not idiots, they know where to draw a line. WoW has been the top MMO on the market for 8 years and even now that the market is moving to f2p wow is still reigning on top. Unless wow dips down to sub-1mil subs then I doubt we'd be seeing any of the "p2w" things listed here up on the store.

[cityguy193]

But they say nothing about when, how, duration, price or anything. Heck, might as well just be promotional.

The fact that it is in the game files means that they just need to flip a switch to turn it on at some point. Why do you think they will not implement it.

[MerinPally]

That is your opinion.
I can get my 2 year old to slap the keyboard consistently, as long as I macro the same thing to every key, and level to max through PVP.
I would argue that the "content" at lower levels isnt really content but an artificial time restriction. It would be a quality of life benefit to buy your way out of it.

It's not an artificial time restraint but merely content from previous expansions... You can't get to the top of the ladder by only climbing the top rung, you have to go through the motions and do the lot... Hence if people want to skip it and hand over their paychecks then be my guest.

[cityguy193]

Geared nonetheless. Blizzard are not idiots, they know where to draw a line. WoW has been the top MMO on the market for 8 years and even now that the market is moving to f2p wow is still reigning on top. Unless wow dips down to sub-1mil subs then I doubt we'd be seeing any of the "p2w" things listed here up on the store.

We have posters on this page claiming that that isnt P2W. If blizzard sees that a good chunk of its playerbase does not care, they will implement it.

[Lochton]

That is your opinion.
I can get my 2 year old to slap the keyboard consistently, as long as I macro the same thing to every key, and level to max through PVP.
I would argue that the "content" at lower levels isnt really content but an artificial time restriction. It would be a quality of life benefit to buy your way out of it.

Your opinion may think that it benefits your to buy a character, and maybe it does. But you don't get what you paid for, then you would just end up whining about lack of content like so many others that just burn through the content the first 2 months and then go - "there's not enough content".

And your example is highly doubtful.

but you "buying" your way forward, is basicly just supporting what Blizzard is against. They want you to play the content.

[Evil Inside]

We have posters on this page claiming that that isnt P2W. If blizzard sees that a good chunk of its playerbase does not care, they will implement it.

But why do you think they will implement it? like I said before, they're not stupid enough to kill their own game by adding things like that while it's still sub-based. What is the point in creating new content if they added a way for players to buy geared level 90 toons.