[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[MathAddict]

The problem isn't that both sides get an unsatisfying end though.
The problem is that the Horde gets massive victories reflected over and over in game. And the Alliance gets victories outside of game, or in quest text that never actually results in anything. And that Alliance story development is approached as an extra thing tacked on to Horde story development.

That is sort of a subjective PoV though.

I can say that the alliance getting dalaran is one of the biggest power switch ups the game has ever seen. Jania is in control of a flying fortress full or magical doodads that could make Garrosh poop his panties. Why care about southshore so much when the alliance controls the most powerful city in azeroth.

[Hitei]

Ah yes, I am sorry. The alliance has never done anything bad ever in the game, EVER! If you agree with than, please don't bother to read the next part.

The horde has blood on it's hands and so does the alliance. Garrosh is a psycho path, yet you want the horde to have it's collective hand slapped and it's evil leader removed? When does the alliance pay for crimes against orcs, forsaken, and tauren? Not to mention other transgressions like kid napping thrall when he was trying to help azeroth?

My apologies, I forgot that burning a single three-tent hunting camp to the ground, and arresting a bunch of mindless, savage invaders who came to your world for no reason other than their bloodlust and will to slaughter everything, and taking one person prisoner made the Alliance an evil faction.

That certainly makes us equally bad with the faction who wiped out a large port city, plagued a peaceful sea-side town, slaughtered the residents of a small farming village, wiped out a community of mages, plundered night elven lands for supplies, laid siege to an entire kingdom--forcing its population to become refugees, and raised a large number of humans as undead.

[Sky High]

The thing with it though, is the game is 10 years old. The entire time is this huge conflict, it CAN end.

can doesn't it is will. or should. it is in the hands of the Devs to do that, and at the end of this whole siege deal it seems they are going that route.

Just because the original basis of the game was this conflict, doesn't mean it has to be the exact same thing for years. This is me pulling stuff out of my ass, but I doubt that many people would really reject it being the new direction of an xpack. (Us being united) I could be wrong about that, but most people seem to only care if it affects their gameplay, which it wouldn't outside of some quest texts really.

they may not and they may have a problem with it, me being one of them. If it were to go the route of the Alliance taking over the horde I would opt to be one of the guys to stand against them, die, then stop playing the game, not very reasonable but I'm horde and always will be horde. as with these events with the allies walking away it maintains both factions but opens up the chances of peace even unification that wasn't there since before the Wrathgate. and even going with what Warthion said it would happen but with piles of dead soldiers on both sides, this way kind of skips that bit.

Edit: I think the army of the light has to do with the horde/alliance coming under the banner of the titans and being a huge force strong enough to fight the burning legion, not necessarily the alliance/horde together.

it would be cool to see some actual Titans in the future with their sheer metal god awesomeness leading both sides into war.

[Drilnos]

The problem isn't that both sides get an unsatisfying end though.
The problem is that the Horde gets massive victories reflected over and over in game. And the Alliance gets victories outside of game, or in quest text that never actually results in anything. And that Alliance story development is approached as an extra thing tacked on to Horde story development.

I'm curious, genuinely, because I don't see it from the other side all that much. Present a list of Horde victories with a permanent mark on the game. A list that does not include Theramore.

So far I've personally killed, er, let's see...Ragnaros, Onyxia, Nefarian, Hakkar, C'thun, Malchezzar, Magtheridon, Vashj, Kael'thas, Zul'jin, Archimonde, Illidan, Kael'thas again, Kil'jaeden, Kel'Thuzad, Yogg-Saron, Arthas, Halion, Cho'gall, Sinestra, Nefarian again, Onyxia again, Al'akir, Ragnaros again, Deathwing, Will of the Emperor, Empress Shek'zeer, the Sha of X, the Thunder King...

<deep inward breath>

...Jaina, Magni, Gelbin, Greymane, Velen, Tyrande, Staghelm, Highlord Bolvar Fordragon, King Varian Wrynn and an uncounted, bottomless number of PCs and NPCs that I will not bother to remember or commit to writing, and wouldn't you know it, they just keep popping back up. It's like I never did any of that. You know what that is?

Bloody favoritism.

[MathAddict]

My apologies, I forgot that burning a single three-tent hunting camp to the ground, and arresting a bunch of mindless, savage invaders who came to your world for no reason other than their bloodlust and will to slaughter everything, and taking one person prisoner made the Alliance an evil faction.

That certainly makes us equally bad with the faction who wiped out a large port city, plagued a peaceful sea-side town, slaughtered the residents of a small farming village, wiped out a community of mages, plundered night elven lands for supplies, laid siege to an entire kingdom--forcing its population to become refugees, and raised a large number of humans as undead.

Please refer to the first two sentences in what you quoted.

[Hitei]

That is sort of a subjective PoV though.

I can say that the alliance getting dalaran is one of the biggest power switch ups the game has ever seen. Jania is in control of a flying fortress full or magical doodads that could make Garrosh poop his panties. Why care about southshore so much when the alliance controls the most powerful city in azeroth.

Hoho, except like all other Alliance victories, this has absolutely no implementation in game.
And like all other Alliance advantages (lol focusing iris in Tides of War) the Alliance is too good to ever use anything we get as a advantageous weapon. So we gained nothing except that the blood elves no longer have a section in the city.

Plus you know, there's the tradeoff that to get this one small section of a city, we had our second largest city on Kalmidor reduced to a crater.

[Zatetic]

shouldnt you wait and see what the new warchief does?

If they pick voljin, then things between the alliance and horde are probably going to be fairly chilled out for a while. Garrosh kind of got brought in and started smashing everything in sight to establish his power or compensate for a small peen or somethin im not sure why.

[Aquamonkey]

Hoho, except like all other Alliance victories, this has absolutely no implementation in game.
And like all other Alliance advantages (lol focusing iris in Tides of War) the Alliance is too good to ever use anything we get as a advantageous weapon. So we gained nothing except that the blood elves no longer have a section in the city.

Plus you know, there's the tradeoff that to get this one small section of a city, we had our second largest city on Kalmidor reduced to a crater.

Must be nice not having your faction capitals under attack.

[Shampro]

That is sort of a subjective PoV though.

I can say that the alliance getting dalaran is one of the biggest power switch ups the game has ever seen. Jania is in control of a flying fortress full or magical doodads that could make Garrosh poop his panties. Why care about southshore so much when the alliance controls the most powerful city in azeroth.

At this point, I dont know if it comes across trolling or what. But its seems like a lot of people here just want to basicly eradicate everything Horde-even if it affects gameplay in some shape or form. Not everyone, but a lof of these people are completely delusional. They've been on the winning point this whole expac, they havent had one loss aside from Theramore which is what ignited they're victory streak, and is just not enough.

I'd just say it again, if the alliance were the ones haveing internal issues, how much are you willing to bet that these people would be crying that Blizzard is catering to Horde again for haveing them kill of Alliance characters? Theres no winning for Blizzard anymore. I think they just need to move on to an outside force/Threat again and give the middle finger to both the Horde and the Alliance. Its just getting beyond annoying and ridicoulous, and this have been a thing since...forever?, thats the sad part.

[SadisticChipmunk]

For those of you jumping all over Blizzard about the fact that the Alliance merely gives back Org to the Horde after the war, claiming that it is stupid, and unrealistic... You should look into the facts of the war of 1812 and read about the land exchange at the end.

[Sky High]

It's not about being friendly, it's about the fact that they were working together fine--To the point where the Horde returns Alliance deserters to the Alliance forces. I'm sure that they wouldn't be happy listening to a Human leader. And that can be reflected in the quests text and the reactions of Horde NPCs.

and then there is Garrosh's little speech...as always he would not have blinked to sweep aside any alliance forces that stood in his way up to the Wrathgate. still would rather be under that red crest then the blue one Ive been stomping on for years now. this is purely my opinion on the matter. as Iv'e said we are debating things that are not even remotely going to happen. logic to your points and Keltas' aside they and mine are quite mute given what we know.

[MathAddict]

Hoho, except like all other Alliance victories, this has absolutely no implementation in game.
And like all other Alliance advantages (lol focusing iris in Tides of War) the Alliance is too good to ever use anything we get as a advantageous weapon. So we gained nothing except that the blood elves no longer have a section in the city.

Plus you know, there's the tradeoff that to get this one small section of a city, we had our second largest city on Kalmidor reduced to a crater.

No alliance victories in game eh? I guess the giant fortress in southern barrens was just a giant illusion.

I would have traded theramore for dal any day.

[Hitei]

I'm curious, genuinely, because I don't see it from the other side all that much. Present a list of Horde victories with a permanent mark on the game. A list that does not include Theramore.

I'm not sure why Theramore doesn't count, but okay.

Silverwing refuge and the destruction of southern Ashenvale.
Hillsbrad Farms.
Southshore.
The entire kingdom of Gilneas.
The destruction of the druid school in Stonetalon.
Andorhal (Could be mistake about this one, but I'm pretty confident when you complete "Alas, Andorhal." it phases it so that all Alliance presence is removed from the city (minus the flight path) and the ruins are patrolled by Forsaken forces)
Azshara.

No alliance victories in game eh? I guess the giant fortress in southern barrens was just a giant illusion.

I would have traded theramore for dal any day.

You mean the one opposite the giant Horde fortress?
Except we didn't get Dalaran in game. Horde can still go to it freely.

[MathAddict]

At this point, I dont know if it comes across trolling or what. But its seems like A lot of peole here just want to basicly eradicate everything Horde-even if it affects gameplay in some shape or form. Not everyone, but a lof of these people are completely delusional. They've been on the winning point this whole expac, they havent had one loss aside from Theramore which is what ignited they're victory streak, and is just not enough.

I'd just say it again, if the alliance were the ones haveing internal issues, how much are you willing to bet that these people would be crying that Blizzard is catering to Horde again for haveing them kill of Alliance characters? Theres no winning for Blizzard anymore. I think they just need to move on to an outside force/Threat again and give the middle finger to both the Horde and the alliance. Its just getting beyond annoying and ridicoulous, and this have been a thing since...forever?, thats the sad part.

I agree, and it is time for me to hit the eject button.

[Hitei]

Must be nice not having your faction capitals under attack.

Yep, Stormwind is great, what with it having a smoking, flaming crater in it for two years.
Which we didn't repair with the supplies we took from the Kor'kron because.. you know.. The Darkspear needed those supplies to build two huts made of wood and animal skins, so that they could help us take the beach... which they don't end up doing...

[Aquamonkey]

Except we didn't get Dalaran in game. Horde can still go to it freely.

That's called a time bubble, notice how the LK is still alive when you're there?

[Hitei]

At this point, I dont know if it comes across trolling or what. But its seems like a lot of people here just want to basicly eradicate everything Horde-even if it affects gameplay in some shape or form. Not everyone, but a lof of these people are completely delusional. They've been on the winning point this whole expac, they havent had one loss aside from Theramore which is what ignited they're victory streak, and is just not enough.

I'd just say it again, if the alliance were the ones haveing internal issues, how much are you willing to bet that these people would be crying that Blizzard is catering to Horde again for haveing them kill of Alliance characters? Theres no winning for Blizzard anymore. I think they just need to move on to an outside force/Threat again and give the middle finger to both the Horde and the Alliance. Its just getting beyond annoying and ridicoulous, and this have been a thing since...forever?, thats the sad part.

The problem this expansion isn't losses, it's the complete neglect of Alliance storyline, because Blizzard feels it's more important to develop the Horde as a faction and just writes the Alliance in later. (Lol 5.3). The losses come from the fact that Cataclysm was massively Horde weighted in terms of victories to losses, AND also had an unreasonable focus on the Horde's most iconic character.

That's called a time bubble, notice how the LK is still alive when you're there?

Notice how Theramore, Southshore, Hillsbrad farms, Gileans, Silverwing refuge, and the park district in stormwind -aren't- still fine when you go there?
That's the point.

[Deleted]

I find the "it would mean we have to redesign the low level zones" or whatever excuse hilarious. If that is the case, then why did you come up with a story in the first place that cannot possibly be implemented?

[Aquamonkey]

Yep, Stormwind is great, what with it having a smoking, flaming crater in it for two years.
Which we didn't repair with the supplies we took from the Kor'kron because.. you know.. The Darkspear needed those supplies to build two huts made of wood and animal skins, so that they could help us take the beach... which they don't end up doing...

As opposed to Orgrimmar being attacked by the Alliance 4 times (not counting Jaina).
1. Daelin Proudmoore, Tiragarde Keep is still under Alliance control in the heart of Durotar.
2. Varian's counterattack after Theramore.
3. Night Elves invading from Azshara.
4. SoO.

Plus it was completely demolished in the Cataclysm.

UC was first taken over by traitors, then invaded by Varian.

But please, tell us more about how SW suffered such injustice by having it's Park District destroyed.

[Sigmar]

The fact this thread is still going shows that the Alliance player base is deeply in need of counseling for it's victim complex.