Could Sylvanas conquer the Eastern Kingdoms?

[Verdugo]

Stormwind has a very good intelligence service. After the Wrathgate, I presume Sylvanas is overwatched by different spies, and if she tries to builds plague bombs, she will be stopped by both Alliance and Horde.

You mean same spies that kindly provided their skulls for Nathanos so that he can play fetch with his dogs?

[Deleted]

Now that Sylvanas has Val'kyr, it's just a matter of time until she dwarfs both the Alliance and the Horde. That's simple mathematics, she knows it, the Horde knows it. One day, sooner or later, either she or the Horde will betray the other. I bet she'd like to wait until her advantage is insurmountable.

So in a round about way, yes, if she plays her cards right, and holds out defensively for the long game, just turtling, and building, and building- her immortal army wihich needs no food or sleep will grow, and grow, until she can just roll over the world.

More likely, though, is that the Alliance (and probably the Horde) will try to do something about it- though unless they can overcome her with irresistible force, the dead bodies from any prolonged war will just make her more powerful.

[Combatbutler]

Would like to see to who would Valkyrs be loyal, Sylvanas or Lich King.

They made the pact with Sylvanas to get away from the Lich King, so they would obviously side with her.

[Defengar]

People seem to have forgotten what happened when Sylvanas unleashed the plague on Southshore.

The only reason Gilneas didn't suffer a similiar fate was for gameplay reason's.

You seem to forget Southshore was a backwater inlet that had just been tanked by a tsunami. Quit different from an epicly fortified racial capital.

[Jawless Jones]

This.

The Forsaken had trouble holding Silverpine against the GLF with Orcs to help them. There's no way Sylvanas could launch a serious attack against Ironforge and Stormwind.

the GLF only had control of two farms (for a small time), and with the help of the feral worgen created by arugal they ambushed some drunken orcs, and then an adventurer single-handedly beat them back to the wall

[Verdugo]

You seem to forget Southshore was a backwater inlet that had just been tanked by a tsunami. Quit different from an epicly fortified racial capital.

First of all, that tsunami thing was retconed in beta. Second, I missed the part where walls stop airborne toxins.

This.

The Forsaken had trouble holding Silverpine against the GLF with Orcs to help them. There's no way Sylvanas could launch a serious attack against Ironforge and Stormwind.

Orcs were there just so they could nerf Forsaken potential. If anything, it would be easier without orcs.

[Krunk]

The Argent Crusade is too strong for the Forsaken to take alone. Especially since they are closely watched by the Ebon Blade as well

[Verdugo]

The Argent Crusade is too strong for the Forsaken to take alone. Especially since they are closely watched by the Ebon Blade as well

Argent Crusade is patheticaly naive force. Most of them are novices that vmoit at the sight of ghoul, many veterans died in Northrend and they had to be saved in almost every situation (also, tactical genius of Tirion Fordring came up with building colliseum on the doormat of Lich King, so there is that). Ebon Blade would propably join Forsaken just to finaly slaughter those light worshiping idiots.

[Deleted]

Good point, they could surround Ironforge though and starve it from receiving any supplies outside of the mountain, they would run out of food eventually.

Also Stormwind doesn't have the benefit of being inside a mountain and would be crippled by plague bombing.

The Dwarves wouldn't starve, they'd probably evacuate most of the citizens through the underground tunnel to Stormwind to be lead with the rest of the refugees by boat to places like the Exodar and Darnassus while the rest of the armies fortify their locations, locking down Ironforge and consolidating their supplies to last that much longer.

The only real threat they'd face would be from within, as I just said the underground tram line is not only another tool in the Dwarfs arsenal but it can also be a great weakness should Stormwind fall before the cities can be evacuated and the tunnels connecting the two be collapsed to stop the encroaching armies from out flanking the resistance.

I'm for the Horde all the way but I think if Slyvanas was to make such a bold move, then the Horde would have to help retake these places and to bring down the undead armies. If the Banshee Queen decides she's strong enough to move on her own against the Alliance in this manner then there would be no reason for her to not turn her sights towards a broken and shattered Horde who have just lost their Warchief to madness and seen their capital city brought to ruin by the conflict they themselves suffered from within.

Could definitely be an interesting concept if played right, with a lot of the upcoming content in 5.4 it wouldn't be a far reach for the two factions to have to work together in this way to stop an enemy that had grown hiding within the ranks of the Horde while focus had been elsewhere on a made Garrosh.

With all the death that's about to ensue from the supposed siege of Orgrimmar, Slyvanas will have plenty of corpses to gather and resurrect in secret behind everyones backs to bolster her own ranks.

Really hope this thread goes far, could definitely be some great insights and ideas for something like this provided you don't start getting the biased ideals that most threads begin getting i.e trolls!

[PrairieChicken]

you realize one faction (Scourge) was capable of defeating every faction on Azeroth.

It has been said multiple times that if the LK unleashed his entire army, he would have taken over Azeroth a long time ago.

The Alliance/Horde were quite fortunate that Arthas actually held The Scourge back.

No

Scourge couldn't even take over northrend (had blue dragons, ulduar machine guys, and other local inhabitants)

[Defengar]

First of all, that tsunami thing was retconed in beta. Second, I missed the part where walls stop airborne toxins.



Orcs were there just so they could nerf Forsaken potential. If anything, it would be easier without orcs.

Stormwinds maintains nearly unrivaled air dominance (in the Eastern kingdoms). Only the dwarves/gnomes and orcs can rival the air power humanity wields all told. The Forsaken would never even be able to get close to the walls with plague wagons.

[Deleted]

Now that Sylvanas has Val'kyr, it's just a matter of time until she dwarfs both the Alliance and the Horde. That's simple mathematics, she knows it, the Horde knows it. One day, sooner or later, either she or the Horde will betray the other. I bet she'd like to wait until her advantage is insurmountable.

So in a round about way, yes, if she plays her cards right, and holds out defensively for the long game, just turtling, and building, and building- her immortal army wihich needs no food or sleep will grow, and grow, until she can just roll over the world.

More likely, though, is that the Alliance (and probably the Horde) will try to do something about it- though unless they can overcome her with irresistible force, the dead bodies from any prolonged war will just make her more powerful.

Those Val'kyrs are few and extremely vulnerable; many already died without even a full-out war. The remaning Valk'yrs would last enough to raise some soldiers but can't be the deciding factor in a real war.
The Forsaken are far less in number than the Scourge, they wouldn't stand a chance against a full Alliance army. Heck I'd even say that the Forsaken wouldnt be able to defeat the Dwarves alone.

- - - Updated - - -

People seem to have forgotten what happened when Sylvanas unleashed the plague on Southshore.

The only reason Gilneas didn't suffer a similiar fate was for gameplay reason's.

You can't play the "gameplay card" when talking about lore. That bombing worked on Southshore because it was a mostly undefended town with no fortifications and she even had the surprise factor on her side. Against a real army the catapults are too vulnerable so they were never used in any war, besides the fact that those vapors wouldnt allow any other Horde race to survive into that environment.

[Verdugo]

Stormwinds maintains nearly unrivaled air dominance (in the Eastern kingdoms). Only the dwarves/gnomes and orcs can rival the air power humanity wields all told. The Forsaken would never even be able to get close to the walls with plague wagons.

Apparently air dominance now means that you just have to pilot kludged contraptions that can be destroyed just by throwing grog at them

Dont get me wrong Forsaken in current from have absolutely no chance to dominate Eastern Kingdoms, but people really overrate certain aspects.

[dope_danny]

Realistically i dont think there is any way she could cross the thandol span. You have all three dwarf clans in the area and thats before getting close to stormwind. The forsaken have their plagues, but compared to all the paladins, shaman and dark iron magic masters i really dont think they stand an even chance. I mean the dark irons alone are enough of a threat, they summoned rags into the material world even, just imagine the damage they could do to the undercity with their tunnel drills and a couple of shaman.

[Verdugo]

Realistically i dont think there is any way she could cross the thandol span. You have all three dwarf clans in the area and thats before getting close to stormwind. The forsaken have their plagues, but compared to all the paladins, shaman and dark iron magic masters i really dont think they stand an even chance. I mean the dark irons alone are enough of a threat, they summoned rags into the material world even, just imagine the damage they could do to the undercity with their tunnel drills and a couple of shaman.

Only if elementals are willing to do some damage. Hint: they always cooperate only for gameplay reasons.

[Skorpionss]

people use deeprun tram as if it's only helpful for the dwarves... it couldn't possibly help the forsaken send in plagued goods you know... totally impossible... the deeprun tram is their only way of getting supplies into ironforge during a siege but it's also a way inside ironforge for the forsaken, all they have to do is plague stormwind and then go through the tunnel straight to ironforge. also not only would they starve to death but they would suffocate if they have no vents, and if they do have vents it would also be another way for plague to get in.

Ironforge is meant to withstand siege engines and bombs and shit not tiny gas particles. they didn't have to worry about such things when they built it and I am pretty sure that the plague can get in somehow even without exploiting the deeprun tram.

[Lylandra]

No. Just... no.

Besides the "NO!", you all seem to forget that canonically Stormwind is the largest city in Azeroth, containing more than 400000 people. Considering that SW doesn't have multiple-storey-buildings and most people have their own home, the area of Stormwind could easily compare to a large city today (my own city has 600-700k people with many of them living in flats). Plus it has a skyship harbor which makes zepellin-bombing rather... ineffective.

And I can easily see some red dragons + the crusade incinerating all of the forsaken troops once the plague gets out of hand again. It is just lame storytelling that they haven't done so already.

[Skorpionss]

Realistically i dont think there is any way she could cross the thandol span. You have all three dwarf clans in the area and thats before getting close to stormwind. The forsaken have their plagues, but compared to all the paladins, shaman and dark iron magic masters i really dont think they stand an even chance. I mean the dark irons alone are enough of a threat, they summoned rags into the material world even, just imagine the damage they could do to the undercity with their tunnel drills and a couple of shaman.

drop plague on them from zeppelins, no more dwarves... they may not come back as undead but they will die nonetheless

[Deleted]

Those Val'kyrs are few and extremely vulnerable; many already died without even a full-out war. The remaning Valk'yrs would last enough to raise some soldiers but can't be the deciding factor in a real war.
The Forsaken are far less in number than the Scourge, they wouldn't stand a chance against a full Alliance army. Heck I'd even say that the Forsaken wouldnt be able to defeat the Dwarves alone.

Surely you understand that if Sylvanas keeps her head down, and steadily raises the dead, it's just a matter of time before her numbers eclipse the Scourge entirely.

[Skorpionss]

No. Just... no.

Besides the "NO!", you all seem to forget that canonically Stormwind is the largest city in Azeroth, containing more than 400000 people. Considering that SW doesn't have multiple-storey-buildings and most people have their own home, the area of Stormwind could easily compare to a large city today (my own city has 600-700k people with many of them living in flats). Plus it has a skyship harbor which makes zepellin-bombing rather... ineffective.

And I can easily see some red dragons + the crusade incinerating all of the forsaken troops once the plague gets out of hand again. It is just lame storytelling that they haven't done so already.

why would the red dragons interfere... they barely interfeered in northrend against arthas... I doubt they would against Sylvanas. and Stormwind would be really easy to conquer lol. the easiest actually... plague supplies, send supplies in stormwind, ppl eat those supplies, get infected, turn in undead... it's like Lordaeron all over again.