Shadow Word: Revolution!

[Twintop]

It's pretty terrible on the PTR right now, or at least so I've heard. The RPPM changes have gimped it.

The RPPM changes are part of it, but, the value of UVLS really came from it's interaction with our T15 2P. As soon as you replace that the value will drop significantly.

[Purple]

Roll shaman for a searing totem?

Not really what I was going for, but oh well.

We just need to get our toolkit tuned up to viability.

That's a nice sentiment. I still feel that the current implementation of Shadow orbs is flawed at a base, and that mindspike should be removed in favor of a better ability that enhances mobility, which was the core of what I was getting at. I never felt a cast time damage ability, like mindspike, was a good idea, and while its prior implementations were better, I don't feel it is ever where I wanted the specialization to go. It's, in fact, counter to it, in my eyes.

They just give devs the (often correct) impression that not even we know what we expect of our class. What I'd suggest (and what I'm doing myself) is to drop the wishlists, quit the moaning and whining, and state clearly what changes the spec needs to be competitive.

Thank you for reducing everyone's input, that you don't personally approve of, to moaning and whining, and insulting anyone that doesn't do what you do. That is highly productive. Have your opinion, that's fine, and disagree with mine, that's fine too. Acting like it, and the suggestions of others here, are little more than a wishlists riddled with whining and moaning, when they're actually just simple suggestions from an enthusiastic community, however, is uncalled for.

I would sure love shadow priests to be able to summon Onyxia as a 2-min cooldown. But we don't need it.

Because people were asking for that.

[Venaliter]

It's done. I made one more final protest to get my point across. A Hail Mary if you will:

Please link tweet where we said "shadow is overpowered & needs nerf." You're using quotes after all.

Shadow needs PvP nerfs and the mitigation one is modest.

I count one nerf to Shadowform mitigation. What am I forgetting?

The undocumented one: "Since Shadow cant escape and has no more DR, just kill him first."

I should also mention that while Shadow has no DR. and no escape, Shadow can almost do NOTHING while focused.

You've painted a bulls-eye on every spriest that has the gall to set foot in a PvP arena. W're obv. upset.

So the final word is pretty much this, as near as I can determine: Disc will be very strong in PvP, but with some mana concerns. Shadow will but pretty much non-viable except for the very best players with the very best comps.

In PvE, Disc and Holy will continue to be strong. It is probable Disc will struggle with mana mightily without the PvE meta. Shadow will be middle to bottom of the pack unless Shadow is buffed and Mages/Warlocks nerfed significantly. And I think that is how it'll go in 5.4.

[Dierdre]

Thank you for reducing everyone's input, that you don't personally approve of, to moaning and whining, and insulting anyone that doesn't do what you do. That is highly productive.

You're reading what you want to read. I have neither insulted, nor reduced everyone's input. What I did point out, and I sustain, is that there are a lot of bitch&moan posts and tweets, which brought us from:

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...49000479817728

to:

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...44741106499584

And THAT is being counterproductive. Is there something you feel the spec needs in order to be competitive? Go nuts and post/tweet away. Are you thinking a cool class mechanic redesign? Nice, but it's not likely to happen and most certainly not during the final tier of an expansion. Are you just gonna whine about any and everything? Please keep it to yourself.

Or do you think the SWD reversal was because of other specs' "backlash"? It was the same shadow priests complaining about any change crying "zomfg it's a nerf!" without understanding it first.

- - - Updated - - -

Because people were asking for that.

Just because YOU don't ask for it, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be cool. Wasn't that pretty much your point?

[Hooked]

I hate being gimped at the start of a patch.

[zito]

It's done. I made one more final protest to get my point across. A Hail Mary if you will:














So the final word is pretty much this, as near as I can determine: Disc will be very strong in PvP, but with some mana concerns. Shadow will but pretty much non-viable except for the very best players with the very best comps.

In PvE, Disc and Holy will continue to be strong. It is probable Disc will struggle with mana mightily without the PvE meta. Shadow will be middle to bottom of the pack unless Shadow is buffed and Mages/Warlocks nerfed significantly. And I think that is how it'll go in 5.4.

He does know void shift nerf, fade nerf, spectral guise nerf, and healing nerf are part of our mitigation right?

Then we have VT dispel nerf coming with 5.4 (or was it patched cant remember), Root Hp was nerfed, psyfiend was nerfed by 80% hp correct?, halo was nerfed.. all of which effected our survivability. Those were the only reason shadow was competitive and he shot gunned them down to uselessness.

The fact that he hasn't nerfed dispersion yet is surprising..... but wait using pom and renew in shadow form make up for that? right? Oh wait healing nerf... and shadow form mitigation was nerfed while mages and warlocks still get theirs :/

[Cerbz]

Dispersion was nerfed, you can be stunned/snared while dispersed.

[supersnap]

I am going to say it, I would still be in favor of getting rid of double SWD even without the 180% buff. I really hate that mechanic.

[Deleted]

Dispersion was nerfed, you can be stunned/snared while dispersed.

I hope you're joking...

[Deleted]

* Let Mind Spike put a 4 sec debuff on the target, Brain Freeze. If the target is Spiked again, Mind Spike generates one orb.
* Put a CD on Psychic Horror and let it not consume orb. Ah shit, that is apparently a PvP buff and we're OP there (???).
* Enter The Void: Allow us to sacrifice one orb to DPS on the move for 8 seconds. Changes all colors to shades of purple so the priest can temporarily look at the world with rose tinted glasses.
* Still like my idea of the Void Shield which would give us a survivability CD in the shadow school which doesn't piss off our disc priests.
* Glyph of Selfish Feathers: your feathers are now only usable by you, you selfish bastard. This talent is a nightmare to manage in 25m raiding. I imagine it sucks as well in big PvP BGs. Make the feathers with this glyph red or shadowy or whatever.

By the way I remember GC saying the old Embrace coming back in MoP. I believe GCs initial design for shadow was to bring it back as a support class, like a hybrid healer/damage. In the Chinese interview he mentioned again support class coming back. I wouldn't be surprised when shadow is going to be a support class in 6.0.

[Dalverick]

It's done. I made one more final protest to get my point across. A Hail Mary if you will:














So the final word is pretty much this, as near as I can determine: Disc will be very strong in PvP, but with some mana concerns. Shadow will but pretty much non-viable except for the very best players with the very best comps.

In PvE, Disc and Holy will continue to be strong. It is probable Disc will struggle with mana mightily without the PvE meta. Shadow will be middle to bottom of the pack unless Shadow is buffed and Mages/Warlocks nerfed significantly. And I think that is how it'll go in 5.4.

Didn't they nerf the AOE fear from dispelling VT as well?

[Cerbz]

I hope you're joking...

Sorry, was drunk.

It did get put into the Shadow school though so you can be locked out of it.

[Yvaelle]

Sorry, was drunk.

It did get put into the Shadow school though so you can be locked out of it.

We have always been able to be stunned while dispersed too, so that part is true - it's just snare immunity that it really grants.Almost always top end pvpers will wait for dispersion to just about end, and the stun and go to town if you aren't in a better position by then. Alternately if you are in a really bad position (healer feared LoS of you for example), you stun spriests during dispersion just to keep them from getting into LoS (usually you try to wait as long as possible though, and then stun them just a step or two short of being in sight).


Edit: Also, don't forget the Mass Dispel nerf in your list, that was a killer blow.

[soulyouth]

Mostly vs mages and locks I miss our single self dispel, was never in a nova for more then a gcd

[Cerbz]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=218076/p...-class-changes

Barely said a thing about Shadow lol

[Dalverick]

He talks about shadow indirectly in the druid section:

"but we felt like the fact that Balance required less healing in PvE was causing raids to favor them over other casters."

Its interesting.. don't raids favor mages/warlocks in general? Were people really sitting mages/warlocks because of the passive DR? And doesn't elemental still have the 10% DR from the lightning shield glyph?

"I know it can feel like the developers are out to punish players sometimes, but really our primary goal is to keep everyone having fun. That includes redesigning awkward mechanics and buffing weak spells, but it also means nerfing overpowered mechanics so that other classes or specs don’t feel as if they can’t compete."

This one also made me giggle.

[BobAwesome]

He talks about shadow indirectly in the druid section:

"but we felt like the fact that Balance required less healing in PvE was causing raids to favor them over other casters."

Its interesting.. don't raids favor mages/warlocks in general? Were people really sitting mages/warlocks because of the passive DR? And doesn't elemental still have the 10% DR from the lightning shield glyph?

"I know it can feel like the developers are out to punish players sometimes, but really our primary goal is to keep everyone having fun. That includes redesigning awkward mechanics and buffing weak spells, but it also means nerfing overpowered mechanics so that other classes or specs don’t feel as if they can’t compete."

This one also made me giggle.

What I find funny is that GC said himself he'd rather take a Lock over any other ranged DPS because of Gateway... so why the hell would raids take Boomkins and Spriests over the superior damage and ultilities of Mages and Locks?

[mindp]

What I find funny is that GC said himself he'd rather take a Lock over any other ranged DPS because of Gateway... so why the hell would raids take Boomkins and Spriests over the superior damage and ultilities of Mages and Locks?

What blows my mind, is that I often meet a lock that claims Gateways are terrible. More so at the start of the expansion, but I still come across them.

[Achtalon]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=218076/p...-class-changes

Barely said a thing about Shadow lol

It says: "We reduced the damage reduction of Shadowform as we did for Hunters and Balance Druids, because we felt like it offered too much of a passive benefit."

"reduced"--does that mean they're not removing it completely? They should make fade baseline damage reduction like 15%, plus 10% more with glyph (or 10 base and 15 more w/glyph), plus 10% baseline on shadowform (if not 15%, but they seem set on some nerf).

These would be multiplicative, so not all that high.


Nevermind, the notes still say the same terrible change they've said for a while (60% armor). However, they need to add something to shadow survivability, and an increase in fade damage reduction would be an easy place to start.

[PickleballAce]

Gateways took longer to arm and were quite buggy early on (they still can be).....and they were arguably a little less "required" in the previous tier compared to ToT. But yeah, anyone claiming they were terrible just didn't know how to use them.

The debuff it gives you is going to last a lot longer though, but Siege mechanics will determine how much of a nerf that is.