Shadow Word: Revolution!

[Granyala]

That's Fake Veiled yo.

*giggles*

Hate noxxic all you want, but don't be disrespectful and elitist towards other people please.

No one was disrespectful towards you. If you follow bad information, you automatically are ... well .. bad.
I don't get it why the creators of sites like noxxic don't consult with the theorycrafters before posting wrong data that leads players astray.

It's bad enough you have to read websites to perform good, it's unacceptable to the average player, when you also have to sift through multiple sites to find one you can trust.

Personally I want to say: Don't assume anything from DPS stacks made with simcraft. Just b/c simcraft is good for shadow priests, doesn't mean it's good for DKs, or Hunters. Model quality influences the results quite a bit, coupled with the nonexistent nature of the "Patchwerk" encounter, the presented data is only one thing:

UTTERLY USELESS.

How are we doing singletarget/singletarget+stand still in comparison to other specs in 5.4?

Go to World of Logs -> Look at Iron juggernaut nHC -> Profit.

Not exactly standstill, but movement is fairly minimal and it's about as much single target as you can get.

[Dierdre]

Go to World of Logs -> Look at Iron juggernaut nHC -> Profit.

Not exactly standstill, but movement is fairly minimal and it's about as much single target as you can get.

The problem is the "standstill" part. Look at Malkorok / Thok logs to get an idea of how bad we actually suck on single target.

The pox on ToF.

[Verain]

The problem is the "standstill" part. Look at Malkorok / Thok logs to get an idea of how bad we actually suck on single target.

Well, it's pretty obvious that Patchwerk dps isn't the strength of the spec. If you look at the overall picture, you see shadow doing well over the course of raid fights, and you see that the Patchwerky specs don't play out as necessarily the best at real fights.

My concern is never "are spriests amazing at tunnel", it's always been "are spriests getting shit on at the things they are good at", which was a real problem last tier, and looks better this tier.

[Dierdre]

My concern is never "are spriests amazing at tunnel", it's always been "are spriests getting shit on at the things they are good at", which was a real problem last tier, and looks better this tier.

Agreed. Problem is, unlike other specs, we SUCK at the things we're not good at. I can top most fights until malkorok, but usually by no more than 5%. Then you get to malkorok and thok and you do +20% less damage than your rogue / mage /warlock. For 25 man that's not such a big problem, the off-healing might even justify it; for 10 man if you're gonna utterly suck on the fights that actually matter, it's no wonder teams will replace you with a sporebat and a double warlock:

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/...ting.tier16_10

I know, "pushing for world first" blah blah. Rubbish: When you suck, you suck; be it world first or flex first tries, it is progression for each specific group. I even gave my spot for Thok because I know for a fact that I have nothing on a demo lock for that fight.

[Drye]

It really sucks that the important dps checks are thok/malkorok, which we do god aweful dps on. At least we do fine on the others ardent fights like spoils, paragons, garrosh and black fuse.

[Granyala]

Problem is, unlike other specs, we SUCK at the things we're not good at.

I doubt that Blizzard will ever find a way to fix single target DPS in these situation, as long as they don't restrict multi DoT or separate PvP from PvE. We just have to live with that weakness.

But I feel for you Dierdre, it really sucks being swapped out b/c of class design. :/

[Dierdre]

I doubt that Blizzard will ever find a way to fix single target DPS in these situation

Shifting damage from ToF to shadowform (e.g. ToF down form 15% to 10%% + ~4% shadowform buff) and buffing mind flay would do wonders to make shadow more balanced without breaking PvP or multidot, since if you get mindflayed in PvP you do deserve to die anyway, and in multidot there's less mind flay uptime.

[Yvaelle]

Shifting damage from ToF to shadowform (e.g. ToF down form 15% to 10%% + ~4% shadowform buff) and buffing mind flay would do wonders to make shadow more balanced without breaking PvP or multidot, since if you get mindflayed in PvP you do deserve to die anyway, and in multidot there's less mind flay uptime.

Often when I suggest this, people become concerned that it would buff Insanity and Insanity would become too good, but this isn't true.

If Mind Flay does 100 damage now, Insanity does 200. If you buff MF by 10%, it does 110, and Insanity does 220 - this means that Insanity has also been buffed 10% (220-110=110 rather than 100). To fix this, all you do is buff Mind Flay 10%, and nerf Insanity to 91% of current damage: then Mind Flay alone will deal 110% of current damage, but Insanity will remain the same relative DPS gain compared to Mindbender and FDCL.

Part of the real problem with that tier though is that Mindbender and Insanity fulfill the same single target niche. A better fix would be to do something cool with Mindbender, like make it deal AOE cleave damage - to 8 targets, because he has 8 tentacles! Then it would fulfill an unfilled niche (mass AOE) while FDCL would be multi-dot/movement, and Insanity would be patchwerk (single target/no movement).

If it really posed a problem with like.. healer priests doing too much aoe damage (I doubt that's a serious concern, since they have a big incentive to MB on cooldown for mana reasons) - then the solution would be to make it a Shadow-only version of Mindbender.

[Forsay]

do something cool with Mindbender, like make it deal AOE cleave damage

This is a Great idea. But I think Blizzard is happy with our lvl 90 talents AoE "burst".

[Dierdre]

Part of the real problem with that tier though is that Mindbender and Insanity fulfill the same single target niche. A better fix would be to do something cool with Mindbender, like make it deal AOE cleave damage - to 8 targets, because he has 8 tentacles! Then it would fulfill an unfilled niche (mass AOE) while FDCL would be multi-dot/movement, and Insanity would be patchwerk (single target/no movement).

I haven't used mindbender as shadow since... not ever. Even though, we don't need a talent for mass AoE; t90 + Mind Sear is more than enough. All we need is something to not utterly suck on single target.

[Deleted]

I like the ideas of shadowy apparitions proccs more often while moving. Perhaps they could be buffed damagewise, procc more often when dots are applied to only one target, kinda like the starsurge system they made. They should buff mind flay somehow too i feel, if it can be done without buffing insanity more in the process as Yvaelle showed. For all it's worth (not a whole lot) I'd like to see Shadowfiend on 2 min CD or perhaps reduced CD by mindflaycrits like we had before. Pretty much all this has been said before though.

[Dierdre]

I'd say nerf PI, make it baseline, and replace it with:

Shadow Word: Patchwerk. +20% damage bonus for MF, SW:P, VT. Bonus reduced by 10% for each extra target afflicted by your Damage over Time effects.

[Yvaelle]

Shadow Word: Patchwerk - you deal 20% more damage to your target, but are unable to cast on anything else for the next 5 minutes

[Angelicat]

probably off topic, but which veiled is real and which is fake? I see "fake veiled" come up all the time and I never know who it's referring to

[Yvaelle]

probably off topic, but which veiled is real and which is fake? I see "fake veiled" come up all the time and I never know who it's referring to

People get confused between Veiled and Veiledyo. Veiled is the owner of H2P, Veiledyo is a sassy frequent poster around here

[Drye]

Veiledyo is a sassy frequent poster around here

Who refuses to take me out on a date! But all seriousness, getting beat by 100k+ on malkorok heroic is really depressing.

[Veiled]

Fights like this don't exist in WoW, that's why they're still named after a boss that was 2 expansions ago.

Fake Veiled is right.

It feels nice to know that despite me stating I don't trust noxxic, just mentioning their name has so much negativity directed towards me.

Claiming you're the best community but still call people out as being "random bads"(I'm not famous obviously but been hanging here for the past year perhaps) and saying they are automatically dismissed. You didn't even answer the question, just automatically dismissed it because it said "noxxic" without even looking at it.

Hate noxxic all you want, but don't be disrespectful and elitist towards other people please.

Just for clarity, Woaden's opinion here, twitter, and the official forums are his opinion and not HowToPriest's opinion. He's human, after all, and allowed to have an opinion on the internet like the rest of us.

probably off topic, but which veiled is real and which is fake? I see "fake veiled" come up all the time and I never know who it's referring to

Greetings, I am real Veiled.

[Deleted]

Who refuses to take me out on a date! But all seriousness, getting beat by 100k+ on malkorok heroic is really depressing.

So depressing that i now play heartstone and wait till spoils ;P I know how you feel

Ok, let me rephrase the question then; How are we doing singletarget/singletarget+stand still in comparison to other specs in 5.4? There's not enough data up on raidbots for the current tier either yet.

Vs ppl who knows what to click on there classes like always, so bad. Like always.

[Frmercury]

It feels nice to know that despite me stating I don't trust noxxic, just mentioning their name has so much negativity directed towards me.

Claiming you're the best community but still call people out as being "random bads"(I'm not famous obviously but been hanging here for the past year perhaps) and saying they are automatically dismissed. You didn't even answer the question, just automatically dismissed it because it said "noxxic" without even looking at it.

Hate noxxic all you want, but don't be disrespectful and elitist towards other people please.

I said random, not random bads, there's obviously some projection going on here if you inferred that. My post was also not directed at any one person in particular but at everyone reading the thread as a sort of warning that certain resources aren't reliable. Even if you already knew that it's been made very clear lately there are a lot of people who aren't aware of that fact.

Just for clarity, Woaden's opinion here, twitter, and the official forums are his opinion and not HowToPriest's opinion. He's human, after all, and allowed to have an opinion on the internet like the rest of us.

Yeah, sometimes she lets us out of our cages to think for ourselves and say words and stuff.

Also last I checked H2P wasn't a conscious being capable of having an opinion of its own :P

[Dierdre]

Also last I checked H2P wasn't a conscious being

It's alive!!! ALIVE!!!

(Insert manic cackle)