Item Squish Confirmed

[Aquamonkey]

I know, let's instead make all numbers 17 septillion, because that makes just as much sense as whatever bloody point you're trying to make.

I like my characters progressing. They've been doing that quite fine for years now. Reducing their numbers, regardless of overall feeling for people who are scared by digits, will be a visible direct decrease in my personal power, even if it is still relative.

But if you go with what I suggested, it would look like your numbers went up...

[Osmeric]

I know, let's instead make all numbers 17 septillion, because that makes just as much sense as whatever bloody point you're trying to make.

He is showing the absurdity of the people who are complaining because their numbers are going down, by showing how meaningless the size of the numbers actually is. And you are agreeing with him without understanding his logical sarcasm.

[TyrantWave]

But if you go with what I suggested, it would look like your numbers went up...

You're right it would. And what character progression was done for that increase? Oh yeah, nothing.

My characters have levelled, raided, and gotten gear through all passages, and through each piece of gear they've gotten stronger. The increases are, typically, an increased based on my current stats (So I'm gaining +200 int on upgrades at the moment but have 20k int as it is - it's a relative increase).

To either a) Suddenly be doing an increased state of damage, especially around 10x what I hit for now, for no actual reason is just silly. There's no reason for it whatsoever. Or, the other b) option: To suddenly lose 5x to 10x my damage, again for no reason, is also silly.

A game where most character progression is either through levelling or loot, to suddenly modify the power of a character 5~10x either way on neither of those is just completely jarring and nonsensical.

- - - Updated - - -

He is showing the absurdity of the people who are complaining because their numbers are going down, by showing how meaningless the size of the numbers actually is. And you are agreeing with him without understanding his logical sarcasm.

How meaningless? I dunno when numbers suddenly became meaningless for you, but they're certainly not for me...

If I crit a 600k ABarr on my mage, that's *amazing* for me. If I get a 250k SF hit on my lock, that too is great. Because I know how much damage my hits typically do (~300k and ~109k respectively on those abilities).

[Asmekiel]

But if you go with what I suggested, it would look like your numbers went up...

We don't ask for random buffs out of nowhere.

[Aquamonkey]

You're right it would. And what character progression was done for that increase? Oh yeah, nothing.

My characters have levelled, raided, and gotten gear through all passages, and through each piece of gear they've gotten stronger. The increases are, typically, an increased based on my current stats (So I'm gaining +200 int on upgrades at the moment but have 20k int as it is - it's a relative increase).

To either a) Suddenly be doing an increased state of damage, especially around 10x what I hit for now, for no actual reason is just silly. There's no reason for it whatsoever. Or, the other b) option: To suddenly lose 5x to 10x my damage, again for no reason, is also silly.

A game where most character progression is either through levelling or loot, to suddenly modify the power of a character 5~10x either way on neither of those is just completely jarring and nonsensical.

What sense of character progression was there in the ICC buff? What sense of character progression is there in the Determination buff? You act like they've never artificially pumped up player power with no in-game context.

[TyrantWave]

Also, if your argument is "Let's just slab a B or M onto it": Why not have a system setting to instead reduce all damage you display by a factor of 1000?

Or, instead, show it as a %hit instead. Hit for 10% of a mobs health? That's what it shows.

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What sense of character progression was there in the ICC buff? What sense of character progression is there in the Determination buff? You act like they've never artificially pumped up player power with no in-game context.

Because I don't consider those buffs when I'm talking about my personal power as a character? I thought that would have been obvious.
If I am taking them into consideration: Getting a 1.5m crit ABarr on Horridon I find awesome.

Do you cry when a boss has a damage taken buff or debuff because it's artificially changing your damage? Would you rather all enemies in the entire game never modify a single source of damage, so it always matches your tooltips nicely?

[Aquamonkey]

Also, if your argument is "Let's just slab a B or M onto it": Why not have a system setting to instead reduce all damage you display by a factor of 1000?

Or, instead, show it as a %hit instead. Hit for 10% of a mobs health? That's what it shows.

Because the squish actually changes the size of the numerical values. I'm suggesting slapping a letter suffix to it to placate the people who can't stand to see their numbers go down after the squish.

Because I don't consider those buffs when I'm talking about my personal power as a character? I thought that would have been obvious.
If I am taking them into consideration: Getting a 1.5m crit ABarr on Horridon I find awesome.

Do you cry when a boss has a damage taken buff or debuff because it's artificially changing your damage? Would you rather all enemies in the entire game never modify a single source of damage, so it always matches your tooltips nicely?

WTF are you talking about? You're the one who's making the argument for player progression defining what numbers come up.

EDIT: There's also the arbitrary nature of having abilities being modified to do different amounts in PvP compared to PvE. Or sudden sweeping changes to the resilience system. Or the sudden addition/removal of stats.

[Asmekiel]

Because the squish actually changes the size of the numerical values. I'm suggesting slapping a letter suffix to it to placate the people who can't stand to see their numbers go down after the squish.

Why not just use an addon so people who want the smaller numbers can enjoy them, while the rest who doesn't care or doesn't want the squish can keep enjoying everything as it is now. Or instead of an addon just an option in the menu.

[Magemaer]

Some people like small numbers. I for one like big numbers.
This change is not welcome.

[Aquamonkey]

Why not just use an addon so people who want the smaller numbers can enjoy them, while the rest who doesn't care or doesn't want the squish can keep enjoying everything as it is now. Or instead of an addon just an option in the menu.

Because the squish isn't just about your or my personal preference. Individuals can use addons to customize their UI to display any numbers they want, big or small, with or without the squish. Blizzard's concerns are for the game as a whole and they're pushing for the squish.

Having to go to an addon makes players very aware that the numbers are artificially adjusted whichever way they choose it. My suggestion to have the post-squish 'K' suffix be on Blizzard's end reconciles with people who want to see big numbers without making them do the adjustment themselves.

[Ectro81]

how is it confirmed when GC said he didn't confirm it as of two days ago?

[Aquamonkey]

how is it confirmed when GC said he didn't confirm it as of two days ago?

Thread predates GC's clarification. His clarification was actually a response to this thread.

[Ectro81]

Thread predates GC's clarification. His clarification was actually a response to this thread.

ahh. okay. ty for clearing that up before my head exploded. o.O

[Kazi]

Why not just use an addon so people who want the smaller numbers can enjoy them, while the rest who doesn't care or doesn't want the squish can keep enjoying everything as it is now. Or instead of an addon just an option in the menu.

It's amazing how many people do not understand that there are system limitations to computing large numbers. The concern is with system performance more than anything, Blizzard has stated this.

Has nothing to do with "do you like large numbers or small". This is why the squish will happen, like it or not.

[Sole-Warrior]

GC basically agreed it's up for discussion, but there is no guarantee that it will happen.

If this game will be around 50 years in the future (I think it will be but it will likely be f2p) could be interesting mind blast critting 450Q Quadrillion.

[Deleted]

It's amazing how many people do not understand that there are system limitations to computing large numbers. The concern is with system performance more than anything, Blizzard has stated this.

Has nothing to do with "do you like large numbers or small". This is why the squish will happen, like it or not.

Aye, but we're nowhere near values that would have some sort of noticeable impact on performance as of yet - like NOWHERE near.

Frankly I couldn't care. If the amount my attack damages a boss for stays the same relative to his HP then it doesn't matter if it's 100, 10000 or 1million.

[anjan011]

You're the type of person I dislike engaging in discussion with in trade chat, when I attempt to troll. A part of me knows you're dead serious, but another part of me wonders. It thinks, "this is so outlandish, it couldn't possibly be said with a straight face".

Between your first post, and mine, and yours again, no one mentioned the 32/64 bit clients. Even after I discredited your attempt to pigeonhole it as a talking point.

Piece by piece:

Yes, Vanilla was a "golden age" for me. It was the formative days of my teenage life, and thus I remember it fondly. However, big numbers aren't "new" for me, because I've been here for Cataclysm and all of Pandaria, too!

I said nothing was wrong with seven digit numbers in any other venue, forum, or... anything else, I suppose. I then included the proviso that GAMING is the one area where such ridiculously high numbers are a problem, because it loses its interest when your character hits as hard as a raid boss.

Let's look at your points, now:

1) Alright. Yes? I don't recall bringing this up. So... we're good with the 32/64 thing? I agree? Maybe? I don't really care about processor speed.

2) I'm pretty sure processing larger numbers inherently takes longer for your computer to do. (I was, when I mentioned the word "parse" referring to YOUR ability to understand, not your computer. I was insulting you, and by explaining as much I have undermined my own insult and rendered it null. Kudos.)

3) You understand Blizzard is ballparking an idea to stop large numbers, right? In fact, that's what this thread is about. Welcome aboard.

Why do you keep bringing logic into this? You mention that large numbers are, in your opinion, great. Then you crush my own opinion and describe it as illogical? You even emphasize that it's your opinion, yet other people's opinions are invalid.

I can't begin to describe the number of fallacies in your argument, but you have the gall to bring up logic? Priceless.

Additionally, because you did not respond to it, and I believe it is poignant:

* Gosh! do i hit like a truck like Jinrokh? hell no! Do i hit more than lvl 60 raid boss Rag in MC? hell yes! because if i didn't i would stop leveling. what's the point of lvling and grinding to get more stats when some puny bosses couple earlier expansion can beat my ass? raid bosses r meaningful when u r in same lvl. they r more an more meaningless as u lvl by. So player hitting as hard as a raid boss is ridiculous statement.

* well taking longer time processing big numbers r already addressed by others. Oh boy, u were trying to insult me on that assumption of urs?

* bliz ballparking that idea alright, but unless they r forced to do it via system limitation, its not gonna happen. and we r no where near that limitation.

Why i bring logic here? that is because if u can't logically support the reason for ilvl squish, there is no point going through it. there is signification changes required to do that. so unless there is compelling reason/logic to do that, bliz by no means going that direction.


You voiced your concern with ur reasoning, i voiced mine with my reasoning. looks like u didn't quite like it so when I attempt to troll <--

[seam]

My thoughts;

-It's hard to tell the difference between 138443 and 139423 at a quick glace. Yes, you can def tell, but it doesn't even seem like a reasonable amount... 1747600896 health on a boss. Can you look at that and instantly see how much it is? It's 1.7 BILLION. I know for a fact that I'm not alone when I say I can't look at that and isntantly know.

-"WHY SHOULD MY CHARACTER GET WEAKER?!" Number aren't in the 'story' of your character anyway. You're still going to hit HARD in relation to everything else. Garrosh has more health than the Lich King...doesn't mean he's actually stronger.

-Is it really a bit deal having smaller numbers? Your damage goes from(For example) 500000 dps to 5000 dps...but your character is still as strong as normal. "Less damage means weaker!" Not really, if everything else's damage/health is lower too.

I would like a squish, but wouldn't be sad if they didn't.

[anjan011]

My thoughts;

-It's hard to tell the difference between 138443 and 139423 at a quick glace. Yes, you can def tell, but it doesn't even seem like a reasonable amount... 1747600896 health on a boss. Can you look at that and instantly see how much it is? It's 1.7 BILLION. I know for a fact that I'm not alone when I say I can't look at that and isntantly know. Really in raid u concentrate on last digits of boss health? i thought those where all displayed in millions, like "175M". so u r not to worry about those big bad numbers, leave them for the computer to worry about.

-"WHY SHOULD MY CHARACTER GET WEAKER?!" Number aren't in the 'story' of your character anyway. You're still going to hit HARD in relation to everything else. Garrosh has more health than the Lich King...doesn't mean he's actually stronger. they r same strong for their appropriate lvl. that is as a lvl 80, LK is a big bad monster, same for a lvl 90. but the idea is LK should be the same big scarry monster like Garrosh for a lvl 90 is laughable. There is many post here claiming "lvl 90 hitting more than a raid boss is insane"

-Is it really a bit deal having smaller numbers? Your damage goes from(For example) 500000 dps to 5000 dps...but your character is still as strong as normal. "Less damage means weaker!" Not really, if everything else's damage/health is lower too. Yes, it kills the fun. being used to 50k damage then seeing 5k hurts, even if every thing is relative. and if every thing is relative, whats the problem with 50k anyway?

I would like a squish, but wouldn't be sad if they didn't.

in short, don't fix what isn't broken and in that process break many things other.

[Aquamonkey]

in short, don't fix what isn't broken and in that process break many things other.

Blizzard wouldn't have even brought it up or worked on the squish if they didn't think there was a problem.