Bradley Manning verdict.

[Kellhound]

There's nothing hypocritical about him.

One who belittles others for their unwillingness to effect change and then states he himself does not work to effect change because to do so is a waste of time is indeed a hypocrit. It's the pot calling the kettle black,

- - - Updated - - -

What exactly is he supposed to do? Go protest at an Officially Designated Free Speech Zone? Support a political party that isn't in the "we automatically have ballot access" club? Contribute money or time to an organization like Occupy, that will be illegally subject to massive, co-ordinated govnerment infiltration and harassment? If he does, then he'd better watch it, or he'll end up as part of a group designated as 'terrorists' by a Fusion Center, and find himself on the No Fly List. (Hope he didn't have or want a career that required frequent flights...) Or are you suggesting he join up with some branch of the government and then leak incriminating info? (Somehow, I had the idea that you were opposed to that.)

If he is proactive in trying to change things, peacefully and within the system or otherwise, the last thing he should do is publicly admit to doing so.

I know and am friends with people who regularly get arrested for protesting on military bases, so I fail to see doing nothing as honorable. And FYI, you can respect someone for doing what they feel is right, even if you feel what the did is wrong.

[chrisisvacant]

You may have noted I have not been calling for the wholesale change in the US Government? So long as the Legislative and Executive branches are split in such a manner that no party controls all 3, I am content with gridlock.

I would question your contentedness, but it strikes me as very "in the moment" and I can't hate on someone for trying to make the best of their own life. However, I see that contentedness, in the grand scheme of things, to be reductive at best and disastrous for society at worst.

To me, being content with the status quo is far more dangerous for your neighbor and your children than laissez-faire armchair politicking or Generation X-style moping. At least when someone asks a liberal person, "What's wrong?" they have an honest answer.

[Skroe]

Just some laws, the laws sure didnt trump when faced with the atrocities made by the US army and some intelligence branches.

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. Make believe "atrocities". Even if Collateral Murder is exactly what people like you say it is, it's not an "atrocity". Ridiculous.

When it comes down to it, you want it to be a certain way. If the US was keeping kittens in a cage, and a certain anti-American slant found that to be aborrhent, you would call that an atrocity because it confirms your world view. You're making your own easy-to-live in reality because *gasp* what happens to Bakis if the US isn't what he says it is at all?

Personally, I like winning. And justice won today because Bradley Manning had the book thrown at him, and tomorrow he finds out which decade of the 21st century he'll be free to use a computer again. So keep feeling the way you're feeling, but...

*points to the scoreboard*

you're losing.

[Phlegethon]

He is not a hero and didn't expose any war crimes. As the DEFENSE proved and managed to convince the judge of, someone else leaked "Collateral Murder" (if you can call that a war crime, which I do not, but I know you probably do). Bradley Manning just provided Wikileaks with another copy of it.

As for the 225,000 State Department cables... there was nothing in them other than America's professional foreign service acting well... incredibly professionally in an incredibly corrupt world.

Obviously collateral murder is no crime, no not at all. Unless those murdered would be your wife and kid of course, that's completely different!

Oh wait, no it's not.

The corrupt world is your country. I've never seen stupid so well portrayed please continue.

(oh yeah, another ban inc, see if I care)

[chrisisvacant]

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. Make believe "atrocities". Even if Collateral Murder is exactly what people like you say it is, it's not an "atrocity". Ridiculous.

When it comes down to it, you want it to be a certain way. If the US was keeping kittens in a cage, and a certain anti-American slant found that to be aborrhent, you would call that an atrocity because it confirms your world view. You're making your own easy-to-live in reality because *gasp* what happens to Bakis if the US isn't what he says it is at all?

Personally, I like winning. And justice won today because Bradley Manning had the book thrown at him, and tomorrow he finds out which decade of the 21st century he'll be free to use a computer again. So keep feeling the way you're feeling, but...

*points to the scoreboard*

you're losing.

You don't think that slaughtering citizens is an atrocity?

So what is 9/11?

[Deleted]

Derp, me gonna release to ze media lots of secret military documents. No harmz done.

[Schillinger]

Manning is a goddamn hero.

Such a FREE country we live when exposing corruption and sickening war crimes in Government means you're a traitor.

[Olo]

Manning is a goddamn hero.

Such a FREE country we live when exposing corruption and sickening war crimes in Government means you're a traitor.

Have you actually read the cables or logs or have you just watched the edited version of the one apache clip that wikileaks put out?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Manning is a goddamn hero.

Such a FREE country we live when exposing corruption and sickening war crimes in Government means you're a traitor.

He also released information that has nothing to do with the said bad stuff that came out. That is where he is not a *goddamn hero*. Do not call him a hero, do not. The word hero gets thrown around in the real world way too much. Snowden, and Manning are no heroes.

[Schillinger]

Have you actually read the cables or logs or have you just watched the edited version of the one apache clip that wikileaks put out?

You know what? There is absolutely no reason to even have troops in the middle east while we're 16 trillion dollars in debt with a blood thirsty drug cartel sitting on our own damn border (thanks war on drugs). There is no army or enemy here because we FUND the same Al Queda in Syria that we FIGHT in Afghanistan. These wars, illegal by nature, are a JOKE! There are no terrorists hiding under the bed or in every closet. It's a scare tactic to take our rights which, judging by the police state we're under, has worked incredibly well.

So yea, it's either corruption or the bad guys won because if they hate us for our freedom, we've obviously lost that being sexually assaulted at the airport. We the people fund this shit and deserve to know what our Government is doing especially when we're at "war" with the same "enemy" we fund.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You know what? There is absolutely no reason to even have troops in the middle east while we're 16 trillion dollars in debt with a blood thirsty drug cartel sitting on our own damn border. There is no army or enemy here because we FUND the same Al Queda in Syria that we FIGHT in Afghanistan. These wars, illegal by nature, are a JOKE! There are no terrorists hiding under the bed or in every closet. It's a scare tactic to take our rights which, judging by the police state we're under, has worked incredibly well.

So yea, it's either corruption or the bad guys won because if they hate us for our freedom, we've obviously lost that being sexually assaulted at the airport. We the people fund this shit and deserve to know what our Government is doing especially when we're at "war" with the same "enemy" we fund.

Umm....what the fuck does all that have to do with Brad Manning. Gee you went on a rant. Calm the fuck down.

[Schillinger]

Umm....what the fuck does all that have to do with Brad Manning. Gee you went on a rant. Calm the fuck down.

Because the issue with Manning has become about Manning and not why Government is doing the things being exposed by Manning. We need to start throwing around the word treason instead of traitor.

[Olo]

You know what? There is absolutely no reason to even have troops in the middle east while we're 16 trillion dollars in debt with a blood thirsty drug cartel sitting on our own damn border (thanks war on drugs). There is no army or enemy here because we FUND the same Al Queda in Syria that we FIGHT in Afghanistan. These wars, illegal by nature, are a JOKE! There are no terrorists hiding under the bed or in every closet. It's a scare tactic to take our rights which, judging by the police state we're under, has worked incredibly well.

So yea, it's either corruption or the bad guys won because if they hate us for our freedom, we've obviously lost that being sexually assaulted at the airport. We the people fund this shit and deserve to know what our Government is doing especially when we're at "war" with the same "enemy" we fund.

Sounds like you haven't and you have no idea what you're talking about. Like so many others, you blindly support manning, not because of what he did, but because you don't like American foreign policy and see this has an opportunity to rail against 'the system'.

[Deleted]

One thing that I do wonder is if Manning had gotten away lighter if he had given the information to more traditional media.
Especially the early stuff that Wikileaks released was barely checked for sensitive information. They just dumped everything out there, which did risk the safety of allot of people. I suspect that more respectable media would have handled the material quite differently.

Anyone know of any knowledgeable people with proper credentials who discuss this side of the whole affair?

[Olo]

One thing that I do wonder is if Manning had gotten away lighter if he had given the information to more traditional media.
Especially the early stuff that Wikileaks released was barely checked for sensitive information. They just dumped everything out there, which did risk the safety of allot of people. I suspect that more respectable media would have handled the material quite differently.

Anyone know of any knowledgeable people with proper credentials who discuss this side of the whole affair?

I could be wrong but i thought he went to the NYT first but they sat on it so they could vet everything first.

He probably would have gotten off lighter if he had just stopped at the war logs. I think it was the diplomatic cables which really fucked him.

[Skroe]

You don't think that slaughtering citizens is an atrocity?

So what is 9/11?

I think it's a question of magnitude. Atrocity has been a word typically reserved for crimes that consume many, many lives, not just several.

The distinction is important. Torture for example has been so thoroughly defined down that the very idea of solitary confinement is being routinely called "torture" in some quarters (this being directly related to Bradley Manning). Shall we define down every loaded word until every individual event of collateral damage becomes an "atrocity"? Personally, I think that should be reserved for things like rounding up 200 ethnic minorities, shooting them and throwing them in a bit - Balkan War style nastiness. Unlawful, unauthorized killing of civilians on a very limited scale? A military crime.

Who died in Collateral Murder? Exactly two people I believe. Apparently an incident involving two people is an atrocity now? Ridiculous. Shall we just create a new word for Balkan War mass murder considering you're so intent on hijacking atrocity? Or would you just hijack that word for a political end too?

- - - Updated - - -

Manning is a goddamn hero.

Such a FREE country we live when exposing corruption and sickening war crimes in Government means you're a traitor.

What corruption did he expose.

Name one, Schillnger. Name one.

[Schillinger]

What corruption did he expose.

Name one, Schillnger. Name one.

Torture would be a good place to start. These are war crimes being exposed here.

But what does it matter? It's a kangaroo court to begin with. There is no justice in this shit.

[Hypro]

I say well done to the judge. Im no American. But he swore a oath to America. He was the one who signed his name on the dotted line saying that he wouldnt do this type of crap. He betrayed that oath. In my opinion he did aid the enemy. Even if he wasnt the one who posted them on wikileaks. He supplied them with it. This is just a """"EXAMPLE"""" But if i sold guns to someone and then they used the guns to kill people, Am i then not in somewhat responsiable for what actions have taken place? In my views yes.

Imo he got off to easy.

[Skroe]

Torture would be a good place to start. These are war crimes being exposed here.

But what does it matter? It's a kangaroo court to begin with. There is no justice in this shit.

No. I'm not letting you do that.

Just saying "torture" or "these are war crimes being exposed here" isn't good enough.

Name specific ones. Names. Dates. Actions. Which ones did he expose. Which CORRUPTION did he expose. Tell us. Give us the long list he made free for all of us to know. Should take you sixty seconds. What War crimes?

And for the record on that "Kangaroo court" nonsense... he chose trial by judge. He was offered a jury trial. He declined he. He also offered to PLEAD guilty to all charges in exchange for a 20 year sentence. The prosecutor declined - he figured he could get more years out of him. So how can there be no justice when manning designed the parameters underwhich he would be judged, and then was found guilty of things he already admitted to?

Really Schillinger... how could the judge find him Not Guilty of Crimes he admitted to, only to find his plea offer rejected? Your opinion doesn't square with the facts. How else can you square what you say with the fact he was ready to admit everything and go away until the late 2030s, and the only reason that didn't happen is because the prosecutor figured he could change that to be the late 2060s. Manning offered the plea deal because he knew the prosecution had everything they needed to hit him with what he would admit to. But he hoped that 20 years would be enough. It wasn't.

So how is this in any way unfair? Was he forced to have a judge rather than jury try him? Was he not offered ways out repeatedly? Is he not going to have an automatic appeal?

You may not like the results, but you'd be a fool for questioning the process.

[Deleted]

How did that guy even get into the army anyway ?! He's like a scrawny midget who wears glasses. Doesn't the military have some physical standars or did they just let him in for the lols ?! Imagine that guy as a seargent yelling at you, hilarious.