Are MMOs a Dead Genre?

[Katchii]

There are millions of people playing MMO's these days and many of them have slightly different tastes. 10 years ago you could only spread those people acorss a handful of games, so the sub numbers were high. Now you have at least 10x as many MMO's, all fighting for roughly the same amount of people.

Of course sub numbers across all games will drop, it's simple math.

This doesn't even get into the other aspects that also affect MMO subs like the social and generational differences between the core gamer 10 years ago and todays core gamer.

[dokilar]

dead? no declining? possibly

its hard to really tell since the market is so bloated with mmos. not to be that guy but i think the subscription model is a dying model. you might have one or two mmos that will continue to have a monthly sub fee in a few years but i think any decently sized mmo that has a sub fee will soon go f2p with a micro transaction shop.

not to beat a dead horse, but i would easily log in to WoW if the sub fee was gone and the expansion price was around $20-$25. its just a lot easier to go play one of the multitude of games out there that have no monthly sub and their entry price is low

[Dilbon]

how was GW2 the same standard shit?

Levels.
Stats on gear.
Instances.
Zone completion and zones in general.

These are the things I didn't like.

[Valeron]

Levels.
Stats on gear.
Instances.
Zone completion and zones in general.

These are the things I didn't like.

Do you like video games?

[Seefer]

You have a bizarre definition of 'no one'.

The genre isn't dead, it just so happens that the industry that pursues such genres is in a cycle of playing follow the leader with one of the worst examples possible.

I'd have to say this is spot on.

[Zoneseek]

From where im sitting, and watching my friends gaming patterns, 10 years ago we were all willing and happy to spend 90-100% of our gaming time in a week playing wow because there wasn't much else to play. Another game would come along, grab our attention for awhile, then we would slide back to the mmo. Even before that...UO, Daoc, etc...we were fine with those taking up the vast majority or all of our gaming time.

Now that PC gaming has been getting better and better again, like it was in the 90's, its really hard to spend a huge amount of time on mmo's. I have way too many games I am currently playing, or want to play, to spend most of my evening playing a mmo. So now that I play them only casually, I would rather drop into Rift or GW2 to fill that void with my buddies and not have a monthly sub. Its not that the monthly sub is much, its the mental pressure to get some value from it. Even if $15 aint shit, you want to get SOMETHING for your $15.

I see the mmo genre leveling out, people spend less time on it as the rest of PC gaming picks up, and I see people preferring the free to play model. 2013 has been the least wow I have ever played in a year thus far, i think i was only subbed for one month and in that month I probably only logged in four or five times. Fanboys might rage on me but Rift and GW2 are solid games, they fill the mmo void for me just fine when im not subbed to wow, I enjoy them both...and with the limited time im willing to devote to a mmo, I don't want to be paying a monthly fee. I would rather play f2p and maybe buy some cosmetic upgrades or something to support the game. That's where I see the genre going. I don't see myself subbing to a mmorpg again in the foreseeable future.

[skatblast]

Dead? no. Will one ever replace the greatness of vanilla, bc and parts of wotlk? I hope so. Wont be for a really long time though.

[Dilbon]

Do you like video games?

Give me a living virtual world with D&D style equipment and magic items and I'm happy.

[RoninaThorstone]

Give me a living virtual world with D&D style equipment and magic items and I'm happy.

I thought you don't like stats on gear?

There's plenty of gear with stats in D&D. Elemental resistance, +2 constitution, +5 to sneak, ect. In fact, there's more types of stats on gear than in your typical MMO.

[Kelimbror]

Give me a living virtual world with D&D style equipment and magic items and I'm happy.

Wait wait...complains about stats and levels, gives example of a game (board and video) that has stats and levels.

Oooook.

Edit:
Dang, Bard beat me by a second.

[Deleted]

I want instant gratification I'm not a kid, its more like I don't want to grind for ages for something that's gonna be completely useless to me after next patch or w/e you want to call it. Leveling is another story so glad to see its not gonna be a thing in the future.

My bad, I changed the wording. It doesn't just apply to kids, it applies to most people born in that generation. Like you said yourself, you want instant gratification without having to work for it.

[Dilbon]

I thought you don't like stats on gear?

There's plenty of gear with stats in D&D. Elemental resistance, +2 constitution, +5 to sneak, ect. In fact, there's more types of stats on gear than in your typical MMO.

I don't consider those stats. What I mean by stats is that every piece has stacking +stamina and +agility or whatever, that's silly. Naturally gear should have magic effects but none of this stacking bs.

Edit: Also levels I can live with if they don't increase character power too much. But level 80 being 1000 times more powerful than level 1, that's stupid.

[Nanaboostme]

WoW was one of the only Mmo's back then, hence the large numbers. There are countless of mmos now, many free to play, and many promising ones. The decline of WoW subs doesnt mean theyve all stopped playing mmo, theyve just migrated to other mmo's.

[Valtyrael]

WoW was one of the only Mmo's back then, hence the large numbers. There are countless of mmos now, many free to play, and many promising ones. The decline of WoW subs doesnt mean theyve all stopped playing mmo, theyve just migrated to other mmo's.

This is simply untrue...

Ultima Online
Everquest
Ragnarok Online

Just to name a few before WoW even came out.

WoW's popularity was based on its IP with an established Warcraft fan base, as well as bringing in lots of people who haven't played Warcraft games before (myself included). Combine that with major celebrities playing (Mila Kunis anyone?), viral videos (LEEEROOYY!), stories in the news about WoW, and a South Park episode; it would be hard for WoW to not be popular.

[RoninaThorstone]

I don't consider those stats. What I mean by stats is that every piece has stacking +stamina and +agility or whatever, that's silly. Naturally gear should have magic effects but none of this stacking bs.

Edit: Also levels I can live with if they don't increase character power too much. But level 80 being 1000 times more powerful than level 1, that's stupid.

A level 30 ranger vs a level 1 mage.

Also, those are stats. You can stack +strength items on a half orc barbarian to great effect (TALKIN CLOUD GIANT STRENGTH)

Sure, it's not on every item... But +X tends to be. It's really not that different.
Long sword+5 / 1d8 +5 = Long sword 60-130 damage +50 accuracy + 50 attack power or whatever. It's just a different way of showing the stats.

[Edge-]

Agreed on that. On a whim one day I decided to try out all this Everquest hullahbaloo. Yeah...it's all awful.

Eh, before they tried to turn EQ2 into WoW it was pretty solid. A much more "hardcore" focused MMO that definitely had its flaws but was quite good.

The issue is that over the years they've tried to lower the barriers for entry within the game, and make it more accessible. This clashes with the core design of...well, everything, so it leads to a really schizophrenic feeling while playing.

[Karnige]

I feel wow has ruined mmos for me. all of them just aren't as ploished and don't have a good feel combat wise or even just running around. rift isnt bad but thats the only one I feel is ok. the new FF was eh also. guild wars same thing

[Kelimbror]

Eh, before they tried to turn EQ2 into WoW it was pretty solid. A much more "hardcore" focused MMO that definitely had its flaws but was quite good.

The issue is that over the years they've tried to lower the barriers for entry within the game, and make it more accessible. This clashes with the core design of...well, everything, so it leads to a really schizophrenic feeling while playing.

It didn't even take that much. From 5 seconds after logging in I knew it was going to be an awful experience. It looked bad, it felt bad, the UI was bad, the systems were bad...I could barely complete one quest it was so awful. And this was after expecting it to look pretty good, play solid, etc from hearing about it and watching videos.

I've literally never had that experience with an MMO ever.

[Edge-]

Probably going to catch some flack for this, but my uni prof. Marketing keeps using WoW in his classes as an example of how success can be attained simply by pumping a lot of money into publicity campaigns and marketing strategies. He constantly argues that WoW doesn't give anything that isn't better in other games, but that it only became widely popular because of them spending outrageous amounts of money on publicity across the entire globe, from Australia to China to South-America to Africa... Billions on advertisements.

If that was true, SWTOR would have absolutely decimated WoW. EA's marketing budget for SWTOR was probably similar to Blizzards marketing budget over the past 5 years.

Tell your marketing professor he's full of pondwater. There are a ton of reasons for WoW's huge growth, and while smart (not big) marketing is definitely one of them, it's far from being one of the primary reasons.

[Ausr]

And yet they are both played by hundreds of thousands if not millions of people. So...where exactly can they be used as evidence that a game is going to shut down within a year? That just doesn't happen. It's your own fault for buying into a hype train as any sort of judgment on a game, whether because you built it up for yourself or felt the need to use it as ammunition to belittle the people currently playing.

I love the words put into my mouth by you.

Never stated they were going to shut down in a year. But you could see the damage done by the hype people built themselves up over. I was commenting only on the hype these particular games got to the person I was replying to.

So, you are going to take the opinion of a vocal minority and hold it up as the belief of the general population?

Seems to me and several other many people agreed with the "oh look what happened here" look at these games.