[BrM] Help our monk with Garrosh please

[ochimaru]

Hey guys our monk tank seems to be taking a ridiculous amount of damage from adds in phase 1. We have now spent 2 nights on the boss I believe best was something like 30% Phase 2 (Not tonight), is there anything that pops out that could help out at all? Even when we try 3 healing he sometimes just 100-0s.
wwwworldoflogscom/reports/rt-zp1n7kly8b1qpnqp/

Removed the . in the url since I am unable to post links yet.

Thanks in advance

usbattlenet/wow/en/character/alexstrasza/Oakk/advanced

Added armory.

[Kokoa]

A link to his armory might also help you get better answers. Just a thought, op.

[Aeris25]

At a glance, his rather low shuffle uptime would explain most if not ALL of him being suddenly gibbed.

Looking at the attempts and comparing to similar attempts from old logs of my own guilds garrosh attempts/kills he's getting roughly a 60 - 65% average shuffle uptime vs 88 - 93% from my guilds BrM which factoring in phase changes and the downtimes that come with it, is probably as close to ideal as you're going to get.

Although great AoE threat/damage tanks monks aren't actually that awesome at mitigating from packs of mobs without shuffle because of the nature of Dampen Harm and only having Fort brew to fall back on outside of sensible guards/Keeping up Elusive (which should be a given).

I'd wager he's focusing too much on spinning (RJW) than actually getting his BoK's off to maintain shuffle or genning Chi efficiently, he could also be over purifying which is a novice BrM mistake but I also notice in some death reports he's taking multi high heavy stagger ticks so I doubt thats the case.


As the poster above said his armoury link might shed a little more light as gear/stats etc might tell alot or explain why but I would still just say 6 Warbringers + No shuffle = Instadeath. Shuffle moar.


Edit: After seeing armoury theres nothing really wrong with his stats apart from the fact with his low haste he should opt for any other 45 talent than Ascension. Glyphs wise he should use enduring spheres, it'll make those so often wasted GotO spheres last a whole lot longer giving more chance to be made use of, fairly minor but not like theres great glyphs really.

His gear really is above and beyond what the fight "requires", personally BrM is my OS and I tank the fight in 25 man (when required) where they do significantly more damage, and I have 0 issues with adds in a hell of alot less gear the first few times (still have less gear for BrM right now in fact) with no assistance in controlling them only using my own RoP when warsong goes out, we have 1 Ele Shaman and a couple of our melee cleave the warbringers so that they're low enough to be killed by being knocked into iron star and thats really all there is to it.

If he does as I do and RoP when warsong goes out it's ideal and dosen't DR with anything but other disarms which are few and far between so you can have a shaman line up a capacitor, Lock shadowfury, DK remorseless winter etc for a stun as well, the combination of RoP and a Stun timed/used correctly, him guarding and/or using a cooldown/healer cooldown between should really be more than enough to overcome the adds and thats really holding his hand.

I think your monk just needs some more practice/better visuals or something for maintaining shuffle and keeping an eye on his own health/Elusive Brew etc as the evidence would suggest L2P issues.


The only other thing would be if you're having more than 1 wave of adds on him at once and then it's a problem in your raid/strat that you may need to adjust.

[Cuteness]

I had similar problem at start - took huge amounts of dmg on adds etc etc.

1st thing switch tanks - let other tank take adds (or part of it) and monk should tank boss.
He shouldnt take RJW i know cool dps on adds etc etc but its UNNESESARY FAKE DPS - u shoudlnt dps adds adds will die if u use iron star to kill them.
Make hgim go XUEN - pop it when hes got venegance and let it atack garosh use ROP on adds when boss shouts warsong (dont stun them - u stun them u get harmstring from all of them at once when they done beeing stuned).

[ochimaru]

Hey guys I passed the info onto him.
Thanks.

[Ailylia]

I say this every time this comes up. Don't stun the adds. Advise him to take ring of peace instead of leg sweep. All stunning the adds does is let them line up their hamstring ability so they use it all at the same time which deals a massive spike of damage (notice how most of his deaths have multiple Warbringers hitting him at the exact same millisecond). Also tell him to stop wasting chi on breath of fire and use it to keep shuffle up.

[ochimaru]

Thanks for the tip I think we were dropping stuns on them thinking that we were helping the tank out.

[Radio]

I personally keep Leg Sweep on this fight for forcing the ironblades to sit in the star's path and for helping control bad MC's/Empowered Whirl adds. Though I've never had a problem with being killed in p1.

[Deathgoose]

Tell your monk don't do any fancy flying jump kick while over a crappy wooden bridge while fighting Garrosh, or else he'll wipe.

[stellvia]

I don't understand how Brewmasters get this far in progression while lacking basic tanking knowledge. Especially seeing as he's 565 ilvl...

Dump Breath of fire glyph, take Enduring Healing Spheres and maybe Fortuitous healing sphere or zen med. Breath of Fire shouldn't be used pretty much ever. Take it off the bar. IMHO Ring of Peace isn't really any better on the fight, because it will still make them all line up abilities. I personally use Ox Wave so that I can stun them during War banner, and also be able to toss an Ox Wave to melee or to ranged to help with MCs. Also works great for stalling adds into Iron Star. I still use RJW, but can see the benefits of having Xuen. Especially for the last burn phase, Xuen could easily do 10% of that 100M all by himself. But RJWs also very useful on adds early on, or the sha-ling things to soften them up before they get taunted out and killed separately.

Trinket AOE reduction is great for Garrosh's darkness wave or w/e the aoe move is called. You can reduce every other one with it, basically. Also make liberal use of disarming Garrosh while trading off tanking. And always be mindful to push Expel harm if you go under 35% health. Don't use Healing Elixirs, it's useless on most bosses. Dampen Harm is what I go with, but Diffuse Magic is useful as well. And use Chi Wave. Chi Burst is almost always useless.

Overall, I would say this fight is probably the most challenging I've dealt with as BrM since Lei Shi. You're going to be consistently knocked under 35% and using Expel Harm as a matter of normal tanking, so you need to trust yourself, and healers need to trust you to not pop cooldowns when they don't have to. He really needs to watch his Shuffle uptime, and IMHO he could stand to have more haste. How he only has 4800 haste at 565 I dunno. Especially for someone whose iffy on BrM mechanics, he should be running more haste.

One thing: Ditch the excessive stam enchants, and actually get most of the socket bonuses, theres no excuse not to. It's understandable to use the STA trinkets on Garrosh (especially the AOE reduction one), but for the most part we tank via active mitigation, not raw EHP. He should be using agility shoulder and leg enchant, and picking up those bonuses.

[Inthislzon]

Fully agree with matching bonuses. We can use exp to match reds and hit to match blues, so even an agi bonus is worth hitting, as you will get the crit you lost from gemming exp/crit from other pieces, as you'll need less exp.

Also shuffle, shuffle and even more shuffle. Doesn't matter what it takes to keep shuffle up, simply do it. Also don't expect 100% on garrosh, it will fall during intermissions, but anything under 90% is usually bad play.

Improving his shuffle uptime will get him significantly more tanky than almost anything else combined, so focus on that first.

[zurm]

Armory wise, he needs to use Ask Mr Robot or a similar site/addon to optimize his gems/reforge, as others said. Plus shuffle uptime does need to be higher as other said as well.

Talent wise, I'm not sure if what he has now is what he uses on garrosh (really, I switch 2-3 talents after every boss for trash, and again before each next boss, if he's NOT swapping talents constantly he's doing it wrong). Ring of Peace is probably the best choice out of the "stun/CC" tier, which is good. Healing elixirs, IMO, is bad for this fight (diffuse magic is what I prefer to soak the whirls and/or large tank blasts in P3, though Dampen harm is certainly viable). Additionally, he should NOT being using RJW... it is only useful for the easiest parts of the fight (P1 and some intermissions). Xuen is amazing; you can use it to cleave down a wave of adds in P1 extremely quickly, AND it actually helps kill the boss faster and avoid extra phases (plus if timed well can easily be used 3-4 times during the fight depending on your DPS). Xuen is consistently worth 20% or more of my DPS on this fight because of the insane vengeance, even though only one of them usually has any adds to cleave.

Finally, even with the above points, I was still a lot squishier than our DK tank (at the time, also 11 ilvls behind, which certainly didn't help matters). What helped us was actually having tanks swap every add wave on the boss (actually have the taunt swap happen a couple seconds before the adds get to you). This left the "old" boss tank with a ton of vengeance to hold adds, and allowed better distribution of vengeance AND damage between the two tanks.

[Ailylia]

Fully agree with matching bonuses. We can use exp to match reds and hit to match blues, so even an agi bonus is worth hitting, as you will get the crit you lost from gemming exp/crit from other pieces, as you'll need less exp.

Also shuffle, shuffle and even more shuffle. Doesn't matter what it takes to keep shuffle up, simply do it. Also don't expect 100% on garrosh, it will fall during intermissions, but anything under 90% is usually bad play.

Improving his shuffle uptime will get him significantly more tanky than almost anything else combined, so focus on that first.

Man I get so much shuffle on this fight it doesn't usually fall off on the intermissions, maybe if we get Terrace first but usually not even then.

One thing to note about intermissions though is that it will remove your Ox statue, make sure to replace it when you get back.

[Rockets]

As mentioned, the p1 adds are the absolute least problematic part of the fight. RJW's great for them, but the Iron Star does so much damage that increasing your own contribution is basically irrelevant.

For Xuen, on the other hand, if you use him on the pull he'll typically be up again just in time for the first intermission, and then will be ready for every one after that. Since you can abuse Annihilate for vengeance with ZM, you can drop Xuen on Garrosh as soon as the barrier drops, stand in the first two Annihilates, and get a ton of dps out of him. (Also, statue guards. You'll have to re-plant your statue once the intermission ends, but the 500k raid guards are worth it.)

Probably want to skip using him on the last intermission though, that way he'll be available at the beginning of p3.

[stellvia]

With glyphed Zen Med can you soak multiple annihilates? I don't like being too experimental when a raid wipe is on the line if it fails, so I never tried to vengeance cheese like that before.

[Rockets]

Yeah, you can soak two without any trouble. A third one is risky; if you start ZM just before the first one hits, it will be ending right as the third lands. I've tried it and survived, but I feel a lot safer just going for two.

Annihilate (on 10N like my raid) hits for 3.5M if you're in the cone, and 350k if you're out of it. So ZM's 90% reduction cuts it down to the exact same damage you would have taken anyway if you had avoided it.

e: I'm also using Avert Harm, because hey why not, I have the 90% DR anyway. We're on 10N so it's not like it's dangerous. If AH lets you shuffle all magic damage I heard it did on Megaera, then that's another 50%+ cut to the burst.

[Tech614]

With glyphed Zen Med can you soak multiple annihilates? I don't like being too experimental when a raid wipe is on the line if it fails, so I never tried to vengeance cheese like that before.

Screw zen med, you can't dps while using it. As long as you have the 50% buff up you can soak 4 from dampen harm, and gaurd(this gaurd will be near 1 mil absorb) on the 4th. You can also use avert harm if you want at some point during the first 3 as it will allow you to stagger the damage of it. It's not even dangerous, but you do need to make sure you have the 50% reduction from the adds.

[RuneeBH]

Take Xuen since AoE in the first phase doesn't do anything for the rest of the fight.. Stun/RoP doesn't really matter, with good shuffle uptime there is no reason why a Monk (of his iLv) is getting smashed by those adds. You can use Xuen 3-4 Times depending on your kill time, which is a ridiculous amount of dmg. Garrosh is one of those fights that you end with a huge amount of shuffle left over. 1-2 mins of it, really. I don't see any reason why it would be hard to keep up shuffle on this. Though, I did just notice his haste is REAL low for this point in the tier, unless he is an unbelievable player, 4.8k haste is pretty insane. Upping that will definitely help with his shuffle uptime. Also, how about some professions? I'm sure that you guys aren't a super elitest hardcore guild, but raising those up definitely wouldn't hurt. Garrosh is just a wake up call for guilds that progress through 13/14 and then realize they've had people playing their classes wrong all along. Tell him to go hit a target dummy, practice getting 2 Chi and using Blackout kick, and then tell him to go do the same thing to garrosh, while occasionally purifying when his Stagger is out of control (which at some points it was) -- if i'm not mistaken 1 of his deaths was from taking a 100k+ stagger tick. Which is absurd.

[Deleted]

Get your guy to get his shuffle uptimes higher.

I dont understand why most posters suggest that you get to drop shuffle on this fight. If youre doing your "rotation" normally, you should still come out of the fight with 95%+ uptime on shuffle. Theres simply no excuse for that this late into the expansion. Fights are basically designed with 100% shuffle uptime in mind.

[Sinthetik]

If your kiting empowered adds, your shuffle will likely fall, depending on the length of your kill. If not kiting, any shuffle under 85-90% is bad. Almost every time I read a BM tank getting rocked thread, it's 98% of the time due to Shuffle uptime (or lack of it). Shuffle quite literally turns monk tank into a leather wearing rogue when it drops. Especially on any hard-hitting content.