Why don't people want combo points on the player?

[ymirsson]

if it was on the player it would be to much like monk/paladin imo.

We dual wield weapons, we are too much like Enhancer or Frost DKs or Fury warriors already. Lets create a new weapon category, so we can be special snowflakes.

[Kael]

I forgot to mention one idea I think could work as a compromise. Since I do like points as they currently are, but deeply despise Redirect, I would like for it to work in a more seamless way. It could use the 'charges' cooldowns that many classes have now: once you change target *and* use a combo builder (so it doesn't happen instantly) you redirect previous cps to your new target and incur on a charge with whatever cooldown they deem appropriate in current patch.

This really sounds like the answer I personally was looking for (except for FoK CP gen and dead targets). It wouldn't break PvP (no instant-swap CC) but the major aggravations of lost CP where rogues really can fall by the wayside (short lived (3-4s) adds that need to be swapped to, in particular). I'm not sure requiring charges is necessary, but I suppose if it is it would best mirror the current (next tier) glyphed redirect CD (10s). Rogue target-swapping punishment across all specs has been reduced as (almost) everyone else loses what little they had; it's the next logical step.

[Tokas]

Player --- Have you guys read any of the feedback / ideas regarding Combo Points? Some interesting threads over MmoC Rogue
Blizzard --- Yeah. I think at the high level, it's worth asking if keeping them on the target is the right design.
(Front page)

[Deleted]

Well thats 180 turn since the last time they talked about the combo points. Now I'm afraid of getting my hopes to high up.

[Deleted]

I did ask in my second tweet to GC if HE thought it was the right design but he didn't reply. At least we got their attention i guess.

[SynergyDarkstar]

I'm not hopeful, considering responses to all feedback that has been given before (I suppose I'm still a bit salty about the MoP beta treatment, there were some really smart people giving feedback, and it was completely ignored).

[ComputerNerd]

Points on the target limit the ability to use one target as the source, and another for the destination.
I have seen lots of people bash that design without any consideration for why it exists.
Hitting another target with the full effect of several combo-points with no build up is something that needs to be controlled carefully, and is certainly not fun to be on the receiving end of in PvP.

[Deleted]

Yeah, beware of mighty melee range 6 seconds stun w/o sitting on that target b4. Thats sth completely new that had never been in this game before... Or... or... someone could get 1-shoted by even more mighty Eviscerate... these moves are hitting like truck nowadays, especially on a target w/o FW. Oh wait...

Personally I'm not a fan of this never ending debate and I have no idea where it came from. Prolly ppl playing too much their fotm alt warlocks... Rogues were dumbed down enough in MoP already -> 6.0 patch notes: Combat and Subtlety removed, enjoy pushing 2 buttons (can't wait). But on the other side I'm quite sure last time this would have been OP was TBC or that shit xpac after that.

[Maelstrom51]

It likely won't happen. Rogues get a lot of hate. Anything that helps rogues is controversial - you can expect to see a lot of non-rogues coming into this thread and saying it would be game breaking.

[Warstar]

It likely won't happen. Rogues get a lot of hate. Anything that helps rogues is controversial - you can expect to see a lot of non-rogues coming into this thread and saying it would be game breaking.

This pretty much seems to hit the nail on the head. Disc priest OP in pvp? Like it should be. Frost mages OP in pvp? Just the name of the game! Warriors blade storm an entire team to death? Shoulda dinged 90 with a free gladiator title! (Well not really warriors get a lot of nerfs).

Rogues get a buff that brings them up from the bottom of the barrel? OMG OP NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF!

It's like the entire game is so against rogues being a strong class especially in PvP that anything that makes them strong gets nerfed almost immediately via hotfix not even waiting for a patch.

[bzhai]

Either they've exhausted all band-aid fix ideas or finally realized that the actual people who play rogues are right. It's about time they give in anyway, coz at this stage of the game's lifespan I'd rather they delete the class rather than leave us to rot.

[Coldkil]

I think one of the biggest reasons for combo points on the target instead of on the rogue is Kidney Shot and similar finishers.

Monks have their combo on themselves, but their Chi spender moves are a) only damage b) spend a fixed amount of chi for static damage.
Same goes for paladins - they can store up to 5 holy power, but spend 3 at max. Also HoJ is a separate ability with a longer CD which compensates for the face it's instant, ranged and can be thrown on any enemy.

CP on rogue basically means you can throw a 6 seconds stun on any target in melee, which is a really strong option.

To be honest, the more i think about combo points, the more i feel they are just right to stay on target. Target swapping in PvE can be annoying, but this way it requires planning; same goes for PvP. I'm not that sure that bringing them on the rogue will be the right choice.

[Maelstrom51]

CP on rogue basically means you can throw a 6 seconds stun on any target in melee, which is a really strong option.

What a lot of people do not realize, is that even though we have one of the shortest cooldown stuns in the game, it is also considerably more costly than any other class. Its combo point requirement effectively means you're trading your highest damage skill for zero damage and a stun. Powerful yes, but even if combo points were not on the target it still has a massive tradeoff and is comparable to other class' CC abilities.

[Mormolyce]

Well I kind of figured it was inevitable since it's gotta be the number 1 Rogue complaint of all time (well, apart from "fix Vanish" and "bring back swirly ball" haha... both taken care of anyway).

I really hope they do finally bite the bullet. I think Rogues have a solid enough kit that this won't make it feel like Holy Power or whatever (not that Paladins need to use HP for their bullshit stun anyway cough). If they're concerned about Rogues feeling Roguey enough, well make up for it with some new Roguey abilities. CP on the target is nothing but an archaic mechanic.

CP on rogue basically means you can throw a 6 seconds stun on any target in melee, which is a really strong option.

Yeah provided you have 5CPs, which costs a lot of energy, and KS has a CD...

God forbid we should be able to stun a target other than the one we built CPs on, like for example every other stun in the game.

We already have redirect anyway. CPs on the target is just a vestigial organ, has really no balance impact.

[Verain]

I dunno if I want to turn this into the other thread.

Briefly, I think at least one spec should offer combo points on the rogue. The devs complain a lot about not knowing what to do with classes whose specs aren't entirely hybridized (aka, you have at least two specs in the same role), but what if our specs were mutilate, survival, and ret? You'd probably see more choice if the manner of dealing damage was divided by spec instead of by class. As it is, almost no one in the game actually has access to more than one damage dealing spec at a time- you pretty much require an alt, or for your specs to be super balanced that tier.

Anyway:

> I think at least one spec should have CPs on the rogue.
> If two specs keep combo points, one of those should have redirect.
> I think one spec should play like older rogues, with straight up combo points no bullshit, but it would have to be tuned similar to mutilate on live.

[Koji2k11]

CP on rogue basically means you can throw a 6 seconds stun on any target in melee, which is a really strong option.

sometimes i think ppl tend to forget our stuns have 1)CP requirement 2)stealth requirement 3)Cooldown

[Deleted]

Getting the CPs transfered to a buffer on the player when a target dies, then moved to the next target you attack, would solve most of my gripes really.
All the cases where mobs dissipate on death, or there is a long enough break before the next stage and the CPs dissipate from the dead target etc.
And while leveling, when CP generation is at times quite slow, you can then carry those 2 or 3 cps from the dead target over to the next.

Switching between live targets would then remain the same, and you´d still want redirect in some of those situations.

[Coldkil]

sometimes i think ppl tend to forget our stuns have 1)CP requirement 2)stealth requirement 3)Cooldown

I didn't forgot. it's just that combo points on the rogue will let you to do this, while the current system doesn't.

Combo point on the rogues would be a straight buff - it's clear that Blizz thinks that all that requirement are fine for Kidney Shot.

[Deleted]

I didn't forgot. it's just that combo points on the rogue will let you to do this, while the current system doesn't..

Current system kinda does though using redirect, or if you play sub with HoT, to some degree.
If we were to have CPs on the rogue, it´d most likely be subject to a timed decay like monks, so it wouldnt be THAT huge a benefit over running around with a 10 sec CD on redirect (given you find a new target while the CPs can still be retargeted, but during this time you´re also presumably loosing CPs to timed decay)

[Maelstrom51]

I didn't forgot. it's just that combo points on the rogue will let you to do this, while the current system doesn't.

Combo point on the rogues would be a straight buff - it's clear that Blizz thinks that all that requirement are fine for Kidney Shot.

Between this new news of reconsidering combo points being on the target, as well as the huge swings of pvp buffs or nerfs every other patch, I am not so sure Blizzard is fine with things as they are.