"World of Warcraft would be 'in bad shape' without embracing the casual revolution"

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

lol at this topic. Obvious is obvious, it's kind of silly to simply post a quote like that and expect profound things to come of it.

[Lord Blackmore]

I posted that because we are still seeing reactionary nonsense about how the sub declines are because of the casual focus, and that things would be great if they'd just get back to a hardcore design.

Every time someone makes that argument, I wonder if they have any working brain cells.

- - - Updated - - -

Someone who doesn't want to raid high for 20-30 hours a week. Someone who doesn't want to spend off-raid nights farming raid mats.

That's one possible definition. The problem is that the term casual refers to all kinds of things and people use the term to mean whatever they want it to mean, good or bad.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Sigh. I'll play devils advocat here..

Successfull Game != Good Game

I guess the thing is wow lost a few things that were quite nice to have and brought some underlinying sense of fun along with them, which simply run contrary to anything that adresses the casual market. Having equipment meaning something certainly felt good in the day, it gave a sense of achievment. That is no longer the feeling I'm getting today, not giving it to everyone simply means no fun for most people though. It's like the concept of items that can only be gotten once per server, nice concept but worth nil considering the cost/use ratio. I'm pretty sure it was important for wow to go down the casual route, people are inherently lazy and feel entiteld to get everything, blizzard can't change this and they need money after all as well.

[wych]

ehhh I don't really get the point in this, it's pretty obvious.

Vanilla is really the only time Blizzard catered for "hardcore" and back then casuals had a shit ton of fun anyway.

Anyone who thinks TBC/WOTLK/Cata was hardcore is mental

[Soltarie]

MoP overall was good expansion and the changes were good. If they continued with how raiding and dungeons were like during Vanilla then maybe the game would've gone downhill at a quicker pace. The "casual" changes helped a lot people experience more of the game and I think it's more enjoyable now than it was years ago.

[ThunderPussy]

OMG casual players ruined my special snowflake game!

OT: Do we really need another thread full of people arguing over how WoW is/isn't ruined?

[Karnige]

Why is this a surprise? The "casuals" are the overwhelming majority of subscribers which means more money.

try telling the 5% of the hardcores around here. Thank god blizzard doesn't listen to people complaining on forums because they represent such a smal% of the actual fanbase who plays.

[Volbian]

Err and? I really don't believe anyone likes to sit for 6+ hours on the pc nowadays for an endless grind like back in vanilla. It's good blizzard decided to make the game more casual friendly since 80% if not 90% of subs is mostly casual players.

Because sitting in Trade Chat for 6+ hours is better?

[Deleted]

wow isnt for hardcores nor casuals only.
it has something for a broad audience, which is whar blizz aimed for

[Rathnor The Flesher]

I am far from an objectivist, but when it comes to MMOs I think it only makes sense that there should be exclusive content for the player who dares. Even the "hard mode" dungeons are cheapened because there's just an easier version of it anyone can do. When I first stepped into the game raid dungeons used to have this almost legendary appeal to them where only true heroes dare to tread. Doing raids and collecting epic gear used to be a thing to brag about and be proud of. Now that anyone can do it, what is even the point. It's like putting an escalator up Mount Everest, you can climb up the hard way, but it won't mean anything.

[shise]

And so what?

Remove casuals and the game would have 3 million players? Fine, it would still be a good game.

Popular is not equal to quality.

[Osmeric]

Successfull Game != Good Game

The game is produced by a for-profit corporation, not Mother Theresa. So any point you are trying to make there is at best irrelevant, at worst completely wrong.

[muto]

ehhh I don't really get the point in this, it's pretty obvious.

Vanilla is really the only time Blizzard catered for "hardcore" and back then casuals had a shit ton of fun anyway.

Anyone who thinks TBC/WOTLK/Cata was hardcore is mental

Is that why it took ? months for the first guild to defeat Yogg 0 Keeper, and another guild two months to get the first Heroic Lich King kill? Try again.

[Osmeric]

Remove casuals and the game would have 3 million players?

Likely much less (depends on what is meant by "casual" of course.)

[Chucksauce]

And so what?

Remove casuals and the game would have 3 hundred thousand players? Fine, it would still be a good game, albeit rather vacant.

Popular is not equal to quality.

There. Fixed.

[Tomana]

Nice one!

Why is this a surprise? The "casuals" are the overwhelming majority of subscribers which means more money.

It's something a lot of posters on this forum still don't realize.

[wych]

Is that why it took ? months for the first guild to defeat Yogg 0 Keeper, and another guild two months to get the first Heroic Lich King kill? Try again.

No there's a difference.

I'm not saying there isn't a hardcore element in the game, i'm saying that the game is designed mainly around casual players and has been since TBC.

WOTLK i'd say is probably the most "casual friendly" expansion, and you also forget the likes of Lich King heroic had limited attempts per week.


The game being aimed at casuals does not mean you can walk in and beat every boss in heroic in a day

[Osmeric]

N I'm not saying there isn't a hardcore element in the game, i'm saying that the game is designed mainly around casual players and has been since TBC.

So... what were casual players supposed to do in Cataclysm, before the about-face on end game difficulty? Level another alt?

For that matter, what were they supposed to do in tBC? Run Karazhan until their ears bled?

[Deech86]

Everyone seems to hate the hardcore players, but I think every successful game needs a base of hardcore players for longevity. The more casual a player is, the easier it is for them to move on to something else.

[wych]

So... what were casual players supposed to do in Cataclysm, before the about-face on end game difficulty? Level another alt?

For that matter, what were they supposed to do in tBC? Run Karazhan until their ears bled?

You're confusing casuals with bad players.