So is Malthael really *Death*, or just "kind of" *Death*?

[KungFuFanta]

Is this guy the one who actually goes to carry everyone's souls when their time of death comes, like the typical idea of Death with a scythe thing?

Or did he just bestow that title upon himself?

Cause if he is DEATH, how the hell are we supposed to stop him? Death is unstoppable, if we "kill" him no one dies anymore right?

[Darkstrike]

there must always be an angel of death , tyrael picks up mathaels weapons

[Zoomin]

there must always be an angel of death , tyrael picks up mathaels weapons

Too Lich King-y

[Maconi]

He named himself Death. He was originally Wisdom (until he left the Council). Tyrael took his spot as Wisdom in D3.

He probably views the Nephelim as a plague (since they were involved in the destruction of the World Stone) and is willing to use even Diablo himself to eradicate them.

[RohanV]

Mathel is Death in the same way that Tyrael is Justice/Wisdom.

He's closer to an "avatar" of the concept, the concept personified, rather the concept entirely. After all, when Tyrael became Wisdom, that didn't mean that the concept of Justice no longer exists.

[KungFuFanta]

Ah I see, thanks for clearing that up, I was kind of getting hopeful than once I kill him I could run loot runs on Monster Power 10 Inferno without ever dying again.

Alas

[Dragonshardz]

I really hate how they are treating Angels in the Diablo universe. As much as I hated Knaak's Diablo trilogy, the way they were interpreted was pretty badass - aloof beings of incredible power that were truly otherworldly... now they seem to line up and die like every other creep in the world. Seriously, they made the freaking Nephelem (the most cliche type of heros, ever) to be their equals (NAY, BETTERS) and to sort every shit out. Yes, this is a game and we are the heroes but damn it, set some damn rules.

[Flaks]

He named himself Death. He was originally Wisdom (until he left the Council). Tyrael took his spot as Wisdom in D3.

He probably views the Nephelim as a plague (since they were involved in the destruction of the World Stone) and is willing to use even Diablo himself to eradicate them.

Man if that's the story they end up going with I'd completely lose hope...again...after how bad the D3 writing was.

Also, it's obvious how we master Death. We kill...the batman. Errr I mean, find the Deathly Hallows. Damn it I meant we meet up in his REALM OF TERRAWR.

[Duncanîdaho]

One thing with Malthael though is regardless of him taking the mantle of death, he is still one of the archangels. As such, as long as the crystal spire stands, he is immortal. We can kill him, and he will just be reconstructed at the spire just like Tyrael was after being blown up by the world stone. Essentially we cannot kill death without wiping out the entire angel race by destroying the spire.

The only way to actually kill him otherwise would be to imprison his soul in the black soulstone and smash it at the hellforge. We attempted to do it to the prime evils in D2, but the black soulstone snagged their souls once the original stones were destroyed so they did not die.

I think Death is just going to reap the angels for us because we dont have the stomach ourselves to and put them in the stone. Then get us to destroy the stone in hell and end the eternal conflict between angels and demons as he will be sole leader. "Death will have its wings spread over all" will then be fulfilled meaning he will be the leader of heaven and hell officially ending the eternal conflict. The players will then fight at the end of the expansion and kill him(which he wants). By killing him he will be able to reform more powerful then ever at the arch since he is the last archangel. He may become the embodiment of everything since there no one else around to share the powers with (Prime evils and archangels are dead but there places still need to be filled) and become a Anu/Tathamet type of god to set up for 'The End Days' expansion. /end speculation

[Flaks]

I thought Diablo broke the Crystal Spire when he got to Heaven and beat the crap out of Imperius...? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[KrazyK923]

I think the thing I like and am most intrigued about this thusfar is that Tyrael's sword could not hurt him. "But why does that matter?" You might ask? Good question!

Tyrael's sword, El'druin, cannot harm those who are righteous. And his sword goes right through Malthael. And if you believe that was just a mistake on Blizzard's part, it wasn't. A "yes/no" Dev interview confirmed that Malthael's cause is "righteous." And as has been pointed out before, Malthael really hates Sanctuary and the Nephalem. That is what caused him to begin shifting to "evil" in the first place. When Inarius and Lillith stole the Worldstone and made Sanctuary to protect it, Malthael began to change.

And, in a lot of ways, Sanctuary has been nothing but trouble for all involved. Also should be noted that once Malthael "recognizes" Tyrael by (presumably) "tasting" his soul in the cinematic, he doesn't kill him. He throws him aside. All this leads me to believe Malthael actually believes he is doing what is necessary for Heaven to survive.

I thought Diablo broke the Crystal Spire when he got to Heaven and beat the crap out of Imperius...? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No, he wrecked most of Heaven and we stopped him before he did. If he would have, all the Angels would be dead. He begins corrupting it, which is why Imperius and his Angel hit-squad lose their power at the end of Act 4.

I really hate how they are treating Angels in the Diablo universe. As much as I hated Knaak's Diablo trilogy, the way they were interpreted was pretty badass - aloof beings of incredible power that were truly otherworldly... now they seem to line up and die like every other creep in the world. Seriously, they made the freaking Nephelem (the most cliche type of heros, ever) to be their equals (NAY, BETTERS) and to sort every shit out. Yes, this is a game and we are the heroes but damn it, set some damn rules.

Well its pretty simple in that its showing the audience the danger of the foes we face. Against regular Demons, the Archangels are easily more powerful. See the animated Diablo short Blizzard did. Hell, in the intro for each Archangel in it, they kill several demons effortlessly. But we aren't dealing with regular Demons or Enemies.

We had Diablo in Heaven, who at this point has basically become Tathamet (The Prime Evil) reincarnate. And now you have Malthael, who not only was fighting arguably the weakest Archangel now (In a Human Tyrael), but against somebody who didn't know what was going on.

Duncanîdaho raised great points in his last paragraph that I agree with. The prophecy probably will be fulfilled, in large part, BY Malthael, who is also mentioned in it. So the other 4 Archangels get sucked into Black Soulstone and we kill Malthael or otherwise stop him. And then we probably go into it in Expansion 2, since Blizzard wants us to somehow save Leah who got a raw deal.

[Sierra85]

Tyrael must die and become an angel again (is that possible?) so that he can assist us in defeating Methael

[Vespian]

Isn't DEATH (grabbing his personification from Discworld) not actually outside the laws of good and evil? Because Death occurs both gto evil and good, he is neither. He chooses not based on a desire (to do good or evil), but to what seems truly right in his eyes? Or even just "logical"?

And when DEATHS seizes to exist, won't someone else simply be "called" to fill his place?

[Deleted]

He's not a personification of Death, as Discworld one (i.e. a necessary part of the world).
In Sanctuary, souls of dead humans go somewhere after death.

Malthael seeks to kill all humans and destroy/claim their souls. So he technically becomes Death, but he is an anomaly, rather than a necessary element.

The interesting part is that his cause is just, as he is immune to El'druin.

[Vespian]

He's not a personification of Death, as Discworld one (i.e. a necessary part of the world).
In Sanctuary, souls of dead humans go somewhere after death.

Malthael seeks to kill all humans and destroy/claim their souls. So he technically becomes Death, but he is an anomaly, rather than a necessary element.

The interesting part is that his cause is just, as he is immune to El'druin.

I was referring to that actually. If the cause is righteous, doesn't that say something about his motivation? It's different from the "I'm going to annihilate humanity even though I know I'm being an evil bastard doing so", he truly believes that, whatever he's going to do, to angel or men, that it's 'The right thing'.

Does the behaviour of the sword change based on the conviction of its target, or the actual underlying truth?

[Deleted]

I was referring to that actually. If the cause is righteous, doesn't that say something about his motivation? It's different from the "I'm going to annihilate humanity even though I know I'm being an evil bastard doing so", he truly believes that, whatever he's going to do, to angel or men, that it's 'The right thing'.

Does the behaviour of the sword change based on the conviction of its target, or the actual underlying truth?

Underlying truth I believe. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to scratch a mere Fallen =))
And this is the case not only with the blade, but with whole Tyrael's power I belive. He beaten the greatest warrior in all of Creation (that is Imperius) simply because he was on the just side - and Imperius surely believed himself to just, no doubt.

[Vespian]

Underlying truth I believe. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to scratch a mere Fallen =))
And this is the case not only with the blade, but with whole Tyrael's power I belive. He beaten the greatest warrior in all of Creation (that is Imperius) simply because he was on the just side - and Imperius surely believed himself to just, no doubt.

But didn't Tyreal change ..ehm...types..sort to speak during his glorious descent to humanity *cough* and thus altering his own function in the universe, directly affecting the ability of his sword? I haven't fully read the lore concerning Tyreal, as I find game lore often just fluff text that's just there because a game requires it, but I could see; not the righteousness of Malth being the reason for the sword passing through, but rather the change within Tyreal himself.

[Deleted]

But didn't Tyreal change ..ehm...types..sort to speak during his glorious descent to humanity *cough* and thus altering his own function in the universe, directly affecting the ability of his sword? I haven't fully read the lore concerning Tyreal, as I find game lore often just fluff text that's just there because a game requires it, but I could see; not the righteousness of Malth being the reason for the sword passing through, but rather the change within Tyreal himself.

Tyrael himself may have changed, but his weapon is still "The Greatsword of Justice +1"
He didn't get a new weapon from Heavenforge, or w/e it's called.

[Vespian]

Tyrael himself may have changed, but his weapon is still "The Greatsword of Justice +1"
He didn't get a new weapon from Heavenforge, or w/e it's called.

Fair enough... can't wait to see what they think of this time, those Blizzard guys. In D3 we killed a man that only spoke truth. Perhaps we are now the evil.

[Deleted]

Fair enough... can't wait to see what they think of this time, those Blizzard guys. In D3 we killed a man that only spoke truth. Perhaps we are now the evil.

Whom did we kill?