One Tanking Durumu (10H)

[sleepness]

I was just curious to see the people that use this strategy with a paladin using HoP to clear the stacks, when are the ideal times to do this? We are possibly going to start progression on Durumu this week and would like to try solo tanking it.

[Nairobi]

6+ stacks. Recommend Unbreakable Spirit for extra uptime on DivProt, and gives you a 2.5 min bubble for clearing, leaving you with an extra "oh-shit" hand of protection.

[Prokk]

On heroic, there will be 11 Hard Stares going out before Death Beam. You can do 6/5 stacks or 7/4 if you're brave enough. I do 7/4 for the vengeance. The stacks will drop during maze phase. I would strongly suggest speccing into Clemency for 2 BoPs and a bubble to clear your stacks 3 times. By that time, your first BoP should be ready to go. Time SoTR right and you should have no issues. Good luck

[Nairobi]

Prokk has a fair point, and Clemency will definitely work.

However my line of thought was/is that Clemency gives you 2 BOPs per 5 mins, and 2x Freedoms/Sac's as well. But nothing needs to be Freedom'd (unless ppl stand in lingering gaze), and 1-tanking means that Sac is generally pretty wasted. So, I go with UbS. It gives me 2.5 min bubbles (equivalent to Clemency) that still allows me an "oh-shit" BoP in case something happened that required me to Bubble early for some weird reason (or stacks reset after maze due to weird timing). It also gives me 2 LoH's during the fight, just in case some DPS/healer needs a quick big heal. Most importantly, it gives ~40 sec CD on DivProt; whether you glyph this for normal melee/hard stare damage (I do) or unglyph for solo-soaking color beams (also good idea), it's a ~33% increase in uptime of the ability.

Also, I take HA for this (and pretty much everything); I pop it at the start with wngs and lust for loldeepz. It will be back up going into the maze phase, but I save it (on heroic) for when the phase ends and we spread out. I stand in a diff quadrant from the raid while they deal with ice walls, and I just keep myself up with wings/HA while they deal with walls/beams and get to me in phase 2. This is repeatable for a 3rd time if needed. DP can be great, or fucking terrible. I prefer reliable, so I stick with HA on pretty much everything (except Tortos).

I know you didn't ask about that, but I had just written a similar post in the pala forums about this, and figured I'd add some info. HA helps a LOT with on-demand ShotR: more important than uptime for ShotR is EFFECTIVE uptime, as in uptime when tanking. 100% uptime in maze phase is stupid (which is why we don't use HA going into that) as you waste the tank-CD portion of the effect. Oh, and the "mechanics" of the fight recycles at right about 3 mins, so remember to use Devo aura late in the light phase to help out healers.

Not at all saying mine is the right way, just explaining why I choose/chose it. And I take 7+ stacks (8 is doable, but really not helping anything) as my guideline, since I'll chain GoAK in towards the 6 stack mark (after HA-ShotR-wall and DivProt/AD fade). Choose what works best for you/your team.

[gynshon]

On heroic, there will be 11 Hard Stares going out before Death Beam. You can do 6/5 stacks or 7/4 if you're brave enough. I do 7/4 for the vengeance. The stacks will drop during maze phase. I would strongly suggest speccing into Clemency for 2 BoPs and a bubble to clear your stacks 3 times. By that time, your first BoP should be ready to go. Time SoTR right and you should have no issues. Good luck

Pretty much this exactly. Don't do 5/6 thinking you can slide, the application is right before beam and he does another application right after beam phase when there is literally 2 secs left on the debuff which refreshes your stacks again and gives you 7. Then you have to clear right away which defeats the purpose. I have single tanked it as a Monk with a Holy Paladin, and on my paladin tank alt.

[Prokk]

Divine Purpose will serve MUCH better since you will have 100% uptime on tanking the boss. This is my personal preference after simming it countless times. If there were to be a tank swap, then yes I would use HA. Again, personal preference but find what works best for you.

[gynshon]

Divine Purpose will serve MUCH better since you will have 100% uptime on tanking the boss. This is my personal preference after simming it countless times. If there were to be a tank swap, then yes I would use HA. Again, personal preference but find what works best for you.

I'm glad I am not the only one who thought so. But since paladin is my alt, and I only raid normals on him until the other alts get geared up enough for heroics, didn't feel comfortable saying so.

But my feeling is Clemency, and DP are solid for single tanking Durumu.

[sleepness]

I'm actually a BRM tanking it with a ret paladin in the raid who will be responsible for the HoPs. Thanks for the solid advice!

[Nairobi]

I'm glad I am not the only one who thought so. But since paladin is my alt, and I only raid normals on him until the other alts get geared up enough for heroics, didn't feel comfortable saying so.

But my feeling is Clemency, and DP are solid for single tanking Durumu.

I feel like HA vs DP is perhaps one of the best debates in the tanking circle. HA sacrifices uptime probability for the guarantee and reliability. There is no doubt that DP can, and at 522+ ilvl WILL beat out HA on overall uptime, but the fact that it is still a %-based proc means that you will be subject to strings of up or downtime. Overall it averages out higher, both on ShotR uptime and DPS, but I personally prefer the reliability and on-demand nature of HA for most of my tanking.

I'm not as advanced as you or Prokk (only 9, soon to be 10/13), and perhaps it is sample bias, but I've been let down more than impressed by DP when I've used it thus far. That's at 15k haste, so maybe it gets better later, but it just doesn't fit my playstyle personally (key word).

I'm still of the opinion that UbS > Clemency if you're doing it ONLY for BoP's, given the uptime increase on DivProt as a benefit (and LOH, but I rarely use that more than once anyhow). If you can make good use of Sac/Freedom, then obv Clemency gets propped up to make it better for Prot.

[Ulrik]

I'm sure both Unbreakable Spirit and Clemency can be made to fit but something I keep seeing here and other places is that a lot of people misunderstand how Clemency works. What I thought at first, and a lot of people still do, is that you basically have two separate Hand spells of each type. Therefore if you alternated them you could HoP every 2.5 min. This is wrong in the long term.

What's misleading is that when you have consumed one use, wait a bit, and then use the spell again. The first use will have been partially charged up from that delay and make it look like it will be ready faster.

Example with HoP:
Cast charge '1'.
Wait 150s (2.5min).
Cast '2'.
Since you've waited you'll be able to recast '1' in another 150s so we'll do that
Wait 150s
Cast '1'.
Now leading up to this you were on 1/2 of one charge so when you cast '1' again you're totally tapped out.
Wait 300s
cast '1'
wait 300s
...

So for the first few uses at the start it looks like you can use it every 150s but that's cause the partial recharge carries over and tricks you.


Another way of looking at it is imagining that you have a hidden bar with 600 (in the case of HoP) 'units'. You gain 1 unit a second and it costs 300 units to cast 1 HoP. Eventually you're going to get to the point of just having to wait 300s to cast HoP again. And at that point it will be a minimum of 300s each time. Unless of course you never cast it more frequently then 300s.

Applying this concept to my previous example:
600 'units'
Cast charge '1'. (300 units)
Wait 150s (450 units)
Cast '2'. (150 units)
Wait 150s (300 units)
Cast '1'. (0 units)
Wait 300s
cast '1'
wait 300s
...


The best example is that the two charges work like a pair of DK runes (of the same type).

You easily test this out with different times of course by grabbing Clemency and playing with Hand of Freedom.

This also explains why afer a wipe where you've used it twice, only one charge gets 'refreshed'. If they were independent then both uses would come off CD afterwards.

Once I realized how the talent actually functioned I lost interest in it greatly as protection. Especially with regards to self clearing effects with Divine Shield, and the Divine Purpose bonus, I think Unbreakable Spirit is a far better option.

[Lottick]

During our first pulls on this fight tonight, one of my melee would die while I was clearing stacks more often than I'd like to admit, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any pointers. I was trying a couple of different things ... watching my combat log and/or Durumu's movement to try to HoP between melee attacks. Admittedly when doing this, I derped more than once trying to get that timing right and overlooked my hard stare timer. Notably, I've repeatedly cleared stacks on normal with relative ease.

To clear, I'm simply spamming my Divine Shield+Cancel macro

#showtooltip Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cast Divine Shield

The answer may just be to mash buttons faster and don't over think it, but just in case (because no one wants to be the reason the group wipes repeatedly) ...

[Sylithh]

Taunt before clearing your stacks.

[Deleted]

I do 7/4 for the vengeance.

Do you mean you told ur healers to not top you, cuz i do not understand how healing debuff gives vengeance?

During our first pulls on this fight tonight, one of my melee would die while I was clearing stacks more often than I'd like to admit, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any pointers. I was trying a couple of different things ... watching my combat log and/or Durumu's movement to try to HoP between melee attacks. Admittedly when doing this, I derped more than once trying to get that timing right and overlooked my hard stare timer. Notably, I've repeatedly cleared stacks on normal with relative ease.

To clear, I'm simply spamming my Divine Shield+Cancel macro

#showtooltip Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cast Divine Shield

The answer may just be to mash buttons faster and don't over think it, but just in case (because no one wants to be the reason the group wipes repeatedly) ...

When do u taunt?

[Deleted]

On heroic, there will be 11 Hard Stares going out before Death Beam. You can do 6/5 stacks or 7/4 if you're brave enough. I do 7/4 for the vengeance. The stacks will drop during maze phase. I would strongly suggest speccing into Clemency for 2 BoPs and a bubble to clear your stacks 3 times. By that time, your first BoP should be ready to go. Time SoTR right and you should have no issues. Good luck

I hope you realise the stacks has nothing to do with damage taken so you get nothing from using BoP on 7 instead of 6.

[Viromand]

Do you mean you told ur healers to not top you, cuz i do not understand how healing debuff gives vengeance?

I thought the exact same thing. It doesnt matter if you take 4 or 8 stacks you will have the same vengeance except if you have get 2 dot stacks, and I would like to see those 2healers that heal a tank with 5-7stacks of the healing debuff and the group during lightbeamphase one with a debuff and during the second lightbeam phase the lifedrain.


The ideal way to do it in terms of dmg income and healing. you clear after the first 5 stacks cause during the first lightbeam you will be about 3 seconds in and during the second lightbeam you will have them cleared right as the beam accure. Making this alot easier for your healers to heal.

Taking more or less stacks is not a dmg gain and even if you have 2 dotstacks at a time it will not raise you vengeance that much only if you have the dot for like 10-20seconds

[trystero]

During our first pulls on this fight tonight, one of my melee would die while I was clearing stacks more often than I'd like to admit, so I thought I'd see if anyone had any pointers. I was trying a couple of different things ... watching my combat log and/or Durumu's movement to try to HoP between melee attacks. Admittedly when doing this, I derped more than once trying to get that timing right and overlooked my hard stare timer. Notably, I've repeatedly cleared stacks on normal with relative ease.

To clear, I'm simply spamming my Divine Shield+Cancel macro

#showtooltip Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cast Divine Shield

The answer may just be to mash buttons faster and don't over think it, but just in case (because no one wants to be the reason the group wipes repeatedly) ...

Yeah, you have to taunt first - that fixates him on you for 3 seconds, plenty of time to use your macro.

[Lottick]

Yeah, you have to taunt first - that fixates him on you for 3 seconds, plenty of time to use your macro.

Ah, yes! Thanks!

[Deleted]

On heroic, there will be 11 Hard Stares going out before Death Beam. You can do 6/5 stacks or 7/4 if you're brave enough. I do 7/4 for the vengeance. The stacks will drop during maze phase. I would strongly suggest speccing into Clemency for 2 BoPs and a bubble to clear your stacks 3 times. By that time, your first BoP should be ready to go. Time SoTR right and you should have no issues. Good luck

You're not getting any extra vengeance out of getting more stacks... so the only thing you have done is putting more stress on the healers during light spectrum phase...

I normally do it at stack #5, thats a few seconds into the light spectrum phase, where healers are most under preassure... after that phase is over it doesn't matter to much about the stacks, as it is really the only intense part of the fight as a healer.

[Shiinji]

Works great we do on 25h we have a Druid tank and 2-3 pallys ready to bop

[land]

Any tips to doing this with a bear having a pally healer for the bops? I checked world of logs and saw a bunch of bears doing this.
PS: we've been single tanking Tortos and Megaera for a bit now so hoping we can do this strat tonight...

- - - Updated - - -

Any tips to doing this with a bear having a pally healer for the bops? I checked world of logs and saw a bunch of bears doing this.
PS: we've been single tanking Tortos and Megaera for a bit now so hoping we can do this strat tonight...

We endup 1 tanking with a pally healer for a couple of bops and that was it, killed it last night. Also, went 2 heals with me (boomie) and ele shammy doing big off heals in the end.