Stormwind Vision [Spoiler]

[Deleted]

Thrall Dead - HELL YEAH!
Bain Dead - Who's he again?
Voljin Dead - Well, a bit sad.
Sylvanas Dead - HELL YEAH!
Taran Zhu Dead - Oh yes.
Anduin Dead - Now this alone makes siding with Garrosh worth it.

Hmmm.... can Garrosh win then please? Oh and I think Sylvanas has 1 more continue left with her viking ladies.

I agree with this.

[Maxilian]

We saw a glimpse of that, we saw a glimpse of Deathwing winning too. The whole world was destroyed, leaders are twisted ghosts and Deathwing is impaled atop Wyrmrest. In Garrosh's vision, the major armies are defeated, Sha crap is everywhere, all our leadership is impaled upon stakes in SW Harbour. The fact some leaders were missing from the grim scene doesn't mean they survived, just like the fact we only see Tyrande, Baine, Sylvanas and Jaina in End Time doesn't mean the other leaders escaped that apocalyse. They are absolutes. Them winning means the end of the game. There is no way around it. The best they can do is give us a dungeon showing it or throw a vision into the raid fight.

Actually in the dungeon description is said that everyone is death, noone survived, the echos of Sylvanas, Jaina, Baine and Tyrande are just part of those heroes, but not the heroes themself, cause they are already dead...

And also, is true that we have seen some visions of what would have happened, but we have never had the bad guys win

Because its a gameplay-driven franchise as Ghostcrawler pointed out in the latest round of blue tracker tweets, story will always bend to gameplay, which means the story will suffer irrational outcomes, anachronisms, and other discontinuities so that the gameplay remains relatively unaltered. I don't think they want to risk wild changes like putting race on the enemy faction, destroying a capital outright, because gameplay dictates they'd have to make another one, with all the amenities, as compensation which is a lot of work plus the risk of alienating large chunks of the playerbase. In Darkshore Auberdine was destroyed but Lor'danel took its place. Etc. etc. Theramore may have a replacement in the works /shrug
As much as I hate this that is the reality of the game we play and just something to deal with, though suggestions and complaints should never cease, so long as it's constructive.

These's sadly true, but they could find a way to make a bad guy win without changing the gameplay, for example:

Garrosh wins, many lore character dies, the horde characters are revels, those who survived, their starting zone don't have to change, make Orgrimmar hostile to both the alliance and the horde, and go on like that, the bad guy can win without having to destroy the gameplay (i know with Deathwing these's not the case)

only in books sadly.

Yeah, In Stormrage, she did a really good job, the problem is that after a while she becames the lovely wife.... and i hate that part >.>

[Archangel Tyrael]

And WoW was, until Hellscream took over, not about good and evil being Alliance and Horde but two nations as rival opposing forces, in a cold war, but pursuing a common goal.

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amazing, it's learned how to turn on a computer and type words.

I'm just saying, you seem quite upset, a bit frustrated maybe?

[DaveL]

.....and Deathwing is impaled atop Wyrmrest..

the part i didn´t get still..

[Deleted]

All that matters to be is that Velen is not there, who am I kidding Garrosh couldn't take on Velen!

That's because in the vision, velen (along with exodar) and gallywix had already been destroyed.

[DaveL]

I suppose you can't be the aspect of death without embracing death itself? I think he was just commanded by his old god benefactors to off himself once his purpose was fulfilled, making his end more tragic there than it was when Thrall fired his laz0r at him in DS.

whoa didn´t thought about it like that
"im death itself so be it!1"
*jumps on a pike*

[Maxilian]

I suppose you can't be the aspect of death without embracing death itself? I think he was just commanded by his old god benefactors to off himself once his purpose was fulfilled, making his end more tragic there than it was when Thrall fired his laz0r at him in DS.

Actually Blizzard explained that after Deathwing destroyed everything the Old God (N'zoth) didn't needed him anymore so got rid of him

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We players are out of time, Jaina, Tyrande, Sylvanas and Baine all died making a last stand against Deathwing and company.

Yeah

which is fine, coz it means content to play in and get loot/achieves out of Lol

But with the winning of the bad guy we could get even more content without having to base ourself on Warcraft 1, 2 and 3 lore to get new content

making Orgrimmar hostile, changing starting zones, etc is a major gameplay changes. Making Orgrimmar hostile to everyone provides the exact same problem as making Orgrimmar an Alliance occupied city.

Yeah and these could be part of the new content, etc...

I didn't read Stormrage but Tyrande choosing wife as her priority is something that pisses me off immensely and is almost chauvinistic in its approach towards female character development.

You're not the only one who hates that part of Tyrande

[Aeula]

Is that jaina ? *Paints skin green and glues tusks into mouth* FOR THE WARCHIEF OF THE TRUE HORDE!!!!!!

[PetersenIII]

(even Buddha was a warrior before going the path of a monk)

In exactly what tradition is The Buddah characterized as a warrior before his enlightenment?

[Trassk]

You know, I use to think why certain warcraft players like here wanted to see characters die, was down to an individual basis, that you might have had reasons for wanting it to be so.

Now reading this thread and seeing some of your reactions, its obvious, you don't actually want characters to die for a legitimate reason, you just want to see lore characters die for the sake of seeing it happen and nothing more.

You saw all these lore characters dead on spikes in an illusion, and you wanted to see it happen.. thats not even worth going into depth why your messed up individuals, I mean I do beg the question, are some of you the kind of gets off on seeing this irl too?

[Simca]

Here's a bigger image of the Vision.

[PetersenIII]

Siddartha was a prince before he became an ascetic in a time when princes actively engaged in warfare as field commanders for their respective states.

Thank you for the edification.

[Maxilian]

we'd be losing everything. it's mutable. If we killed off all the orcs and humans we could have "more content" not based on prior RTS games. but then we'd have killed off all orcs and humans.

entirely disruptive to gameplay.

But why would all Orcs and humans die???

They could easily left the some of the orcs clans as rebelds, and that's all, now we will new content, seeing Garrosh as a big enemy and trying the horde and alliance to gain power and recover themself from the last fight, and at the same time trying to defense themself from the constants attack of Garrosh

[Frozenbeef]

curious..where is gallywix/ velen/ greymane/ mekatorke/ gelbin/ council ? 0o

Now reading this thread and seeing some of your reactions, its obvious, you don't actually want characters to die for a legitimate reason, you just want to see lore characters die for the sake of seeing it happen and nothing more.

Please don't group us all into the assumption that we all want them to die, it's pretty sad seeing sylvanas and jaina up there

[Archangel Tyrael]

snip

well, you make pretty big claims without any basis whatsoever, that's the only kind of reply you deserve mate!

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Here's a bigger image of the Vision.

Where'd you get that?

Thanks anyway.

[Maxilian]

You know, I use to think why certain warcraft players like here wanted to see characters die, was down to an individual basis, that you might have had reasons for wanting it to be so.

Now reading this thread and seeing some of your reactions, its obvious, you don't actually want characters to die for a legitimate reason, you just want to see lore characters die for the sake of seeing it happen and nothing more.

Trassk, as i said before most of us just like the idea of an unexpected outcome, i mean, i LOVE Sylvanas and really like Jaina and Anduin, and don't want any of them dead, but IMO these outcome could bring something unexpected and a really cool twist for the lore

You saw all these lore characters dead on spikes in an illusion, and you wanted to see it happen.. thats not even worth going into depth why your messed up individuals, I mean I do beg the question, are some of you the kind of gets off on seeing this irl too?

Just because someone like X outcome that you don't doesnt mean that we are out of our mind or anything

[Maxilian]

Maybe they all got cholera? This is a thought experiment, not a suggestion.

What you're asking for is basically making a new game. They have trouble finding a way to let friends whom play horde and alliance toons quest together cross-faction coz of the gameplay impass.

Ermmm..., sorry you lost me here, why am i asking to make a new game? i'm just saying make Orgrimmar and enemy capital, destroy stormwind or make it a big battleground, and make the orc starting quest state that the orcs (playable orcs) are part of the rebelion and that after Varian, Jaina and Anduin died, there's noone in the Alliance willingly to stand at the horde side, so the conflict horde and alliance haven't ended but in the end, we still have a bigger problem... The "True Horde"

[StationaryHawk]

You saw all these lore characters dead on spikes in an illusion, and you wanted to see it happen.. thats not even worth going into depth why your messed up individuals, I mean I do beg the question, are some of you the kind of gets off on seeing this irl too?

It's just fiction, man.

[Frozenbeef]

such as?
Not being condescending, what really cool twist do you see? How would Orgrimmar being hostile to everyone be a really cool twist, as you see it? And to what end?

A new permanent hostile faction is always good for the story, currently we have three main ones and the rest are just tiny off shoots that get dealt with every expansion. I personally would love to see how Garrosh using his new sha power would react to a naga invasion/ the burning legion and how they would react to seeing a new enemy appear on azeroth. would they fight, work together , trick them etc? 0o

I'm still waiting for the lichking and burning legion to face off since warcraft 3 that story still needs resolving in my mind...the lich king needs his vengeance >.<

[Maxilian]

such as?
Not being condescending, what really cool twist do you see? How would Orgrimmar being hostile to everyone be a really cool twist, as you see it? And to what end?

The Orgrimmar being hostile is just an idea, but what would be the cool twist... ermmm, the bad guys winning, something they haven't done in years, also it would go to the air, how would the alliance and horde deal with these, and how will they deal with the new enemy that Wrathion said is comming and is going to destroy the world if we don't stand together..., etc...