GW2 PVE Endgame

[Valeron]

If I had to say something fast, Id say longevity off the game. Or just the back-bone off the game. Something that makes you keep playing even after 2 months.

well the thing is, it means something different to each person, I find it to be such a nebulous term.

[rhandric]

If I had to say something fast, Id say longevity off the game. Or just the back-bone off the game. Something that makes you keep playing even after 2 months.

Using that definition, Living Story would definitely fall into that, yet so many people claim "there's nothing to do at 80 QQ!", when what they really mean is, "there's no structured, optimized direction for me to take my character (raid) so I'm just going to complain instead of enjoying the content that I am given"

[Fencers]

what is "endgame"?

It's the point at which a game narrows to just a few pieces at play [or options] before completion of the game's goals. Initially it was to describe the point in Chess where you only have a few moves before the game is effectively over- checkmate or stalemate.

Transposed to other play systems the term applies to the limited stages of play before the game's ultimate or driving goal is achieved. Such as an endgame in various card games like Magic the Gathering or Infinity Wars. Or the narrowing in play structure of Rift, for example.

It can also be used in relation to negotiations or deal brokering. Before the deal has been closed or ended. A denotative and connotative consistency- final stages, before end or completion, limited options, etc.

This is apart from the actual end or closing. As that would be either the conclusion or end of game. Not specifically the endgame.

[Valeron]

Fencers, I'm surprised you have answered that.

I mean I have asked that same "question" in a rhetorical sense for quite a while now

[Fencers]

Fencers, I'm surprised you have answered that.

I mean I have asked that same "question" in a rhetorical sense for quite a while now

Apologies. I do not pay a lot of attention to the actual users posting in the forums. Sometimes I miss out on a rhetorical or sarcastic question as I browse through all the forums.

Sorry. I am trying to notice people more often.

[Valeron]

lol, and you have answered me every time I've said it too. Ah well. Sometimes the little things entertain me

[mmotroof]

Why have they made it like this? isnt mmo about keeping the player interested. even for a b2p?

wow isn't the typical MMORPG so that needs to be understood

wow really isn't even an MMORPG anymore, there is no RP to it
and gw2 isn't a typical MMORPG and it's not like wow


just different games lumped into the same genre because they haven't come up with a real genre to put them in yet


it is what it is, if you race to cap, it's not the game for you, but since there is no sub, you will get your money's worth if you're not just looking for something to appease your wow addiction

and wvwvw is fun

and there is minor progression at cap, it's just finite is all, you won't hit 80 and have all legendary/exotic gear

[Jtbrig7390]

There is no endgame. However, there are still many options of play open to players at 60.

The crux of the Guild Wars series from a design perspective is one of drop-in/drop-out casual play and horizontal goals. One does the same types of activities within the same play structure at level 80 as they did at levels 8, 30, 52 or 76.

None of the Guild Wars games have an endgame. The question isn't suitable to the operation of the series. But there is plenty to keep you playing all the same.

To be fair Gw1 did have a endgame kinda in the style of other mmo's with its 8man dungeons like Underworld. But the main part was speed running them with like Perma sins and other class builds.

GW1/2 Dose have endgame but not in the same style as Wow/Rift ect... Guild Wars 2's Endgame is really whatever you want to do on top of the new content that comes out every 2 weeks or so.

To me "The Last time I played anyway" Guild Wars 2 gives you choice in ingame and I like that but I do hope they add some 8 man style dungeons in the near future. Its been awhile since I played and at this time I am reinstalling so I plan to check out some things.

I do hope they add raid style dungeons in the near future because that's really to me the only thing it dose not have. Also I kinda hate how there is no gear grind but then again Guild Wars has never been about the gear grind.

[Fencers]

To be fair Gw1 did have a endgame kinda in the style of other mmo's with its 8man dungeons like Underworld. But the main part was speed running them with like Perma sins and other class builds.

It did not have an endgame in the style of other MMOs [assuming you mean 2nd era].

A speed run served no designed intention. It was not a gameplay mechanic by default- just player activity.

An endgame is the stage that is in service to the goal of the game- winning, ending, resolution, closure, etc.

An endgame is not "whatever you are doing at X level or Y point in time".

[Karizee]

There are lots of endgame options in GW2, this ain’t your grandpa’s endgame ;-)

WvW is considered endgame by many. Many guilds refer to their WvW nights as raid nights, they min/max everything to try to push their server to the top spot on the Leaderboards. You earn ability points as you go which make you stronger. Working with your entire server, coordinating on teamspeak adds an epic level of endgame not seen elsewhere.

The endlessly scaling dungeon, Fractals of the Mists is considered endgame by many. Very few have reached the highest tiers.

Obtaining Legendary weapons is considered endgame by many. Now this is a weapon that is truly legendary since it is not something you grind out only to have it replaced with the next patch. It gets upgraded to the highest tier, you get the freedom of changing stats on it at will, it will always be Best In Slot.

Earning a spot on the Achievement Leaderboards is considered endgame by many. With the amount of content and achievements released every 2 weeks there’s always a new dungeon to beat, a new boss to conquer, a new game to test your skills, in other words, always something to strive for.
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/na/achievements

For instance, most recently there was the Queen’s Gauntlet, an extremely difficult challenge only completed by a handful of players which rewarded a prestigious item to show their skill. You can continue to add gambits to the boss encounters for even more challenge.

PvP endgame can be seen as acquiring the rarest of ranks, currently the Phoenix (no one has Dragon yet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=bH_pWrk0eGg

Some people consider maxing their gear endgame. There are a myriad of ways to do this with more opportunities as the game evolves.

The list goes on, but hopefully you get the idea. It’s different from what you’re used to, but this game has endgame in spades.

[Jtbrig7390]

It did not have an endgame in the style of other MMOs [assuming you mean 2nd era].

A speed run served no designed intention. It was not a gameplay mechanic by default- just player activity.

An endgame is the stage that is in service to the goal of the game- winning, ending, resolution, closure, etc.

An endgame is not "whatever you are doing at X level or Y point in time".

Underworld/Fow and other dungeons like it in GW1 was not ment to be ran the way they are today but due to game mechanic's thats what they turned into.

Underworld 8 mans was like doing a raid in wow.

An endgame is not "whatever you are doing at X level or Y point in time".

In your opinion maybe in my opinion endgame is what you do at max level since the level progression is gone. Once you hit level cap what you do is counted as a form of endgame in my opinion. For Example: lets say in wow at level 90 I do LFR/Pet Battles/Brawlers Guild/Soloing old raids that is my endgame because that is what I do at max level. In guild wars if I farm dungeons for gear "Cosmetic or not" and I do the world events like fighting The Shatterer along with the 2 week content release's that is my endgame.

Like I said tho what Endgame is is a opinion of what people like to do once they reach a point in a game and that point is normally max level. so your comment

An endgame is not "whatever you are doing at X level or Y point in time".

Is just your opinion on how you see endgame.

Also with GW2 pvp if that is all you decide to do that is your endgame.

[Fencers]

Underworld/Fow and other dungeons like it in GW1 was not ment to be ran the way they are today but due to game mechanic's thats what they turned into.

What relevance is this?

As I said, speed runs were no gameplay mechanism as designed. It was just something people did.

Having a raid isn't something that is necessity "endgame" either. Those WOW raids are endgame because they fit the parameters of the term in a classical and applied sense: limited options before the completion of the game's goal. Raids are not endgame in WOW because they are raids, per se.

In your opinion maybe in my opinion endgame is what you do at max level since the level progression is gone. Once you hit level cap what you do is counted as a form of endgame in my opinion.

I gave no personal opinion in that post. What I stated is the correct usage of the term as applied and understood across various fields of academics and game theory.

You are welcome to your own interpretation. Though the validity of that opinion is of course subject to the scrutiny of history and intellect the same as any other.

You are also welcome to look up articles on endplay & endgame, their associated methodology and psychology as you please. You will find a consistency in application as I stipulated.

[Gray_Matter]

This.

If you expect to enjoy GW2 for very long, you pretty much MUST be the kind of player that takes pride/enjoyment/whatever in killing 1,000 centaurs just because there's a line of text in window that says you get points for it.

Not this. I have never chased achievements yet I enjoy the game. Anecdotal evidence but that's all that is needed to disprove a generalization.

[Jtbrig7390]

What relevance is this?

As I said, speed runs were no gameplay mechanism as designed. It was just something people did.

But that is how it worked in Guild Wars 1. If you think you could just blindly go into UW and fight Dhuum without some builds good chance you wiped. There was many things you needed to do in order to compelete it on top of the speed run builds.

If a heroic guild can speed run current raids in wow are they not still counted as endgame content???

As for this point

You are as welcome to look up articles on endplay & endgame, their associated methodology and psychology as you please. You will a consistency in application as I stipulated.

I personally do not care what any article says's about endgame.

Last I checked I was the one playing the game so what I think endgame is matters to me and me alone not the opinion of a article.

You are welcome to your own interpretation. Though the validity of that opinion is of course subject to the scrutiny of history and intellect the same as any other.

It isn't my interpretation there is no set in stone rule on what endgame is and my opinion still stands endgame is what you make of it. Guild Wars 2 has endgame by the truck load but that dose not mean you will like its endgame and just because someone dose not like its endgame dose not mean it don't have it.

What I stated is the correct usage of the term as applied and understood across various fields of academics and game theory.

There is no correct usage of the term because there is no set in stone endgame style each game is different unless you fallow the EQ/WOW model. Therefor endgame is what each person makes of it.

But to say Guild Wars 2 "Or GW1 for that matter' has no endgame is a lie it just not have the endgame some people like. I like gear grinding that gives me better stats GW2 dose not have this therefor it dose not have one of the styles of Endgame I like. But it has tones of other endgame stuff I do like like the world events dungeon running Pvp and other stuff.

[Valeron]

Indeed, you can't just generalize for what is different for each person. I don't chase achievements, I just play. Sometimes I'll just play some mini games, other days I'll participate in whatever living story is going at that time, another day I'll do some WvW. Just because you aren't shepherded into doing a single endgame activity (such as raiding) doesn't mean there is nothing to do.

[Deleted]

It takes a while to get 6/6 ascended slots for best in slot gear so that's basically the endgame. Ascended weapons are being added next week (I think) too and they will probably take some effort. For all the other slots, you can buy the current best in slot gear for quite a small amount of gold.

To get the current ascended items (which have better stats than Exotic) you can either do fractals or dailies, basically. You can craft a backpiece for a huge amount of gold (it still needs a vial from the fractals) and get ascended earrings from a month of doing guild missions, but yeah.

edit - by "dailies" I mean you have to do 5 simple things to get a single daily achievement and laurel token. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily

[Jtbrig7390]

Indeed, you can't just generalize for what is different for each person. I don't chase achievements, I just play. Sometimes I'll just play some mini games, other days I'll participate in whatever living story is going at that time, another day I'll do some WvW. Just because you aren't shepherded into doing a single endgame activity (such as raiding) doesn't mean there is nothing to do.

Right and thats why I always felt there is no set in stone meaning to what endgame is because for each person its different.

At most "Endgame" could mean what you do at max level but for some they don't reach that level so leveling could be there endgame and repeating it over and over on new charcters add's to it.

Like I said I don't care what some article say's because first off articles are just a writer stating there opinion 9 times out of 10 and I am playing the game therefor my opinion on what endgame is for me is all that matters to me.

For a long time Soloing and LFR was all I did in WOW therefor that was my endgame. If someone decide's to just mine ore all day long in guild wars 2 then for them thats there endgame.

I guess one way to define endgame is doing something or a mix of things you like over and over and over ect..... The question is dose GW2 "Or any other mmo" have that thing you like doing.

[Karizee]

That's pretty much the way the game is designed. It's not set up to have progression, or to have challenges, or anything like that. The design is pretty much entirely based upon doing idle activities that the game sets before you.

I'd say the vast majority of the playerbase found the Queen's Gauntlet challenging.

[Fencers]

If a heroic guild can speed run current raids in wow are they not still counted as endgame content???

If the goals of the gameplay are achieved otherwise; no. They would not be endgame raids any longer.

As for this point I personally do not care what any article says's about endgame.

That is your right.

Last I checked I was the one playing the game so what I think endgame is matters to me and me alone not the opinion of a article.

Then we have no basis for conversation, you and I.

I am not interested in having conversations about personal viewpoints usually. No ill will intended.

There is no correct usage of the term because there is no set in stone endgame style each game is different unless you fallow the EQ/WOW model.

This is an incorrect understanding of the term and application. Endgame is constant regardless of game- be it chess or cards or video games. Thus why it is applied to the same parameters of play despite desperate play systems across a variety of fields from actual games to military strategy and negotiation.

The term is rather specific; final stages of play before completion/end. The parameters of which are defined by limited options to the advancement of a goal or process.

[Valeron]

The term is rather specific; final stages of play before completion/end. The parameters of which are defined by limited options to the advancement of a goal or process.

Indeed, that is why I say it is a misnomer for mmos.